Matt Moore might be a bad QB, but he is better than Henne.

Henne can't remember what it's like to play a game where he was put into a favorable position to succeed that's conducive to not throwing INTs.

 

I don't hate Chad Henne either. I just think we have a player as productive/more productive on our roster right now who is cheap and under contract next year. No need for Chad Henne. Draft a QB and give him the reigns.

 

Isn't that what every QB needs? The Packers did it and are still doing it for Rodgers. Indy did it for Manning in a big way. Ditto for NO and Brees, Detroit & Stafford, Pitt & Ben, and Houston & Schaub. The problem is Henne never had it remotely close to being appropriately built around his strengths. It was the complete opposite; it was almost built around his weaknesses. 2011 is the first year that the coaching & surrounding cast were better suited for Henne; however, the coaching was still new and so were most of the players.

Henne in a new offense still played better than Freeman, Flacco, Bradford, Kolb, Sanchez, Cassell, Rivers, and Orton have this year.... and nearly as well as Ryan IMO. I, too, don't think Henne's a "franchise" QB, but a lot of these other QBs that posters have compared Chad to aren't showing to be one either.

 

The fascination with Henne's arm is the fact that it's never been utilized to its potential, nor was his QB brain allowed a chance to develop, both of which are a shame b/c he has a big NFL arm capable of making throws that other guys dream of, and he's shown the mental aptitude to digest a new playbook in a short amount of time and even teach that back to his players. IMO you can't limit those 2 aspects of a QB's game and expect him to ever succeed.


Seriously, we had a big-armed QB like Henne who actually does have some brains yet we ran an audible-less offense that called for nothing but 5 step drops and an excessive amount of both timing routes & routes coming back to the QB with possession type WRs & TEs who are suited for a highly accurate lollipop armed QB like Pennington? Henne could've been the next Roethlisberger and he would've failed under these circumstances.

It doesn't matter now b/c he'll be starting for someone else next year, but it pisses me off that this organization wasted someone who had much more potential than we developed, and it's not b/c Henne's lazy, doesn't put forth the effort, or lacks the ability to learn.

 

No! You put a Marino on any team with decent Wr's and that team is instantly better. Same with Elway, Rogers, Brady, Rivers......

 

I agree. but you still need to surround them with the right cast that allows them to play to their potential. Would Marino have had the same career if instead of Duper, Clayton, Moore, and good protection he had an injured mix Bess, Hartline, Marshall, Wallace, Moore, Pruitt, and poor protection? Sure he makes them better, but he's likely not a playoff team while his defense is inconsistent behind him.

Elway didn't become elite until he had a HOF TE & 2000 yard RB (to go along with a solid receiving cast). But this is all besides the point. You're mentioning QBs who are some of the best to ever play sans Rivers, but that's the exception to the norm. IMO our chances of landing another Marino is slim, especially after already having 1 of him, so there's a greater likelihood that we'll need to appropriately build a team around a non HOF type QB with an OC who perfectly compliments him while also possessing a top 5 defense.



Look at all the recent 1st round QBs who are showing they do in fact need a team properly built around them for their offense to succeed (and them to succeed):
-Matt Ryan (hence the massive trade up for Jones and acquisition of Gonzalez)
-Stafford (with Calvin, Young, Best, Pettigrew, Burleson, Scheffler).
-Dalton (with 1st rounders, AJ Green & Gresham)
-Freeman & Sanchez (who currently aren't doing well even with some talent around them).
-Flacco (who's doing poorly after losing Heap & Mason)
-#1 pick Bradford is going to crap without a proper supporting cast.

 

Notice I said decent targets when i listed those Qbs.

Disagree about Elway. He was a badass from the get go. His team won it all once Davis arrived but for the most part, Elways teams were always good.

Henne is not that type of a Qb. He needs all the pieces in place for his teams to win consistantly.

 

Boohoo for Henne. Instead of wanting a 4th quarter comeback king we needed to make him a 4th quarter lead nursing queen.

You just illustrated why he needs to be gone and will never be good. When any heat is on, he throws INTs.

 

I completely agree. Unfortunately, I think that's how it is for 90+% of the NFL.

Aikman, Kelly, and Bradshaw needed all the pieces in place, but they went to a ton of Super Bowls, where as truly elite passing QBs like Fouts & Marino made just 1 trip combined. I'd still love the 2nd coming of Peyton Manning, but I know even a 1st round pick or #1 pick doesn't make that likely. It's more likely that even then we need to build an offense around him for him to succeed and reach his potential. It'll most likely have to be more of a symbiotic relationship IMO where everyone on the offense will have to make everyone better.

 

That's ridiculous. No QB is winning every 4th qtr game, especially if he's already needed to try to play at such a high level during the previous 57 minutes to account for the team's incredibly sloppy play.

That's too much mental stress to put on virtually any young QB on a weekly basis, especially in a new system. You have to sometimes give your QB a mental breather during the meat of the game so he at least has some mental sharpness left at the end of it (that can include occasionally running with success w/o crucial fumbles, giving him better protection & passing lanes, not missing costly FGs, YAC plays, short field opportunities, occasional defensive or special teams TDs, not excessively dropping TD passes). You should know that your brain can become fatigued like any other muscle; it's no different than a runner opening up a mile run with a 400 meter sprint and having little in the tank down the stretch. When games weren't fully placed on Henne's shoulders on a weekly basis, he actually displayed a good ability to come from behind in the 4th quarter. He was successful in 2009 before Henning really got a hold of him and when we had a ground game to ease the mental burden.

An NFL season is 16 games, not 3. Henne could've very well had 3+ 4th qtr victories later in the year [ala 2009] to balance out the missed 3, especially now that Miami is finally playing good TEAM ball and not throwing everything on our QB's shoulder all game long every game.

 

The only thing hilarious is your understanding of basic math. Our defense hasn't allowed more than 9 points during the last 3 weeks, so if we're scoring 13-17 pts per game, then we're STILL winning 3 games. drrrrrrr

 

At this point in time, there is no question that MMoore played better then Chad Henne, as in without a doubt.

Consider MMoore has 2 3 Td games in 6 starts for us, Henne has never had a single 3 Td game in 29 starts for us.

What more evidence would it take?

 

Honestly do not know what to make of MMoore and the offense right now, do not wish to buy into matt moore when all he is doing is playing better then Henne, is this a case of the tallest midget?

I sort of knew MMoore would outperform Henne, he makes better touch passes then the robot, but does that mean he is any kind of answer moving into 2012?



Really, his story with us will be written over the final 3 games especially the Bills and Pats, on the road, in the winter.

 

Watching Matt Moore play 2 years with Dan Henning. lol.

Henning would've never allowed Moore to throw 2 TDs in a game, let alone 3.

So it comes back to Daboll's offense. In their first 3 games in it, Henne had 3 more TDs than Moore (not including the dropped TDs). IMO we can't accurately call Moore better when he's had a chance to grow & improve in the offense with a team that's playing well while Henne hasn't.

 

Give it up already. You sound like a Jet fan at this point, putting blame on everyone but ****ty Mark Sanchez. Chad Henne, blows. This is fact. No touch. No timing. Awful ball placement. Scattershot accuracy. Terrible decision making. Can't hit a receiver on a go route to save his life. Awful on 3rd downs. Awful in the 4th quarter. Awful in the redzone. Chad Henne was put in such a ****ty position, yet Matt Moore is put in the same position, and in the last 3 games already has TWO more 3 TD games than Henne has been able to muster in his entire career. Again, Chad Henne blows. No matter what position he's put in, he will continue to blow. That's what bad quarterbacks do.

 

LOL. No, Henne would of never allowed Henne to throw 3 TD's in a game because he's such a sorry excuse for a quarterback. And why would Henning, or any OC really, allow Henne to sling the rock when he sucks at it? Yea that's a recipe for success, allow your pathetic QB to throw the ball! Delhomme sure had no problems throwing 3 TD's in games under Henning. And did it with less attempts too. Oh that's right, because Delhomme was a competent QB back then and Henne isn't now, nor will he ever be.

Matt Moore is a superior to Chad Henne at this point. Can't even be disputed. Henne had plenty of time to grow and improve in the offense, and because he sucks, he didn't, and was the same exact QB he's been since he got here.

 

Save for thos 5 games Henne started, when you know, Henning wasn't the OC.

MMoore has had 2 3 Td games in the last 3, Henne had -0- in 29 starts, comeon TP...sooner or later you sort of have to face some realities here.

That is not to say Chad Henne is not a NFL starting caliber Qb, not at all, it is to say he is not a highly productive NFL Qb, off the top I can think of 3 throws in the Bills game that Henne would have either not made, or not hit on:

-back shoulder to Hartline...I've watched every Chad Henne start, never saw him make a single back shoulder throw
-down the sideline to Reggie Bush..Henne does not even try that throw
-Td to Clay, that was an excellent throw as the Lb's and Safety were collapsing on CC9, the safer play would have been to look elsewhere which is exactly what I've seen Henne do time after time.

Not saying MMoore is the answer, am saying he is clearly better then Henne.

 

Nah, Henne doesn't "suck", however Henne is not a killer, he does not have the instinct to stick the ball into the EZ whenever possible.

He has a solid arm, good command of the offense and does not turn the ball over and is tough, Henne has several positive qualities, but they scream "solid backup Qb" instead of "playoff caliber starting Qb for entire season'.

 

Pennington did and Jake Delhomme and Vinny Testeverde and Todd Collins and Rodney Peete

Of the last six quarterbacks that were in Henning's offense only one didn't score 3 touchdowns in one game.

 

You and me have a different definition of suck. If you suck in the redzone, 3rd downs, and in the 4th quarter, you suck as a quarterback as far as I'm concerned.

 

Fair enough, I think the difference is if you put Henne in Oakland or NYG or even on the Jest, he'd win ball games, don't ask him to be the guy and he will do fine.

Other thing is, in fairness to Henne, Moore has had all the weapons on offense healthy, Clay, Bush, come to mind, defense is playing better as well, what 3 games without allowing a Td?

But still, cannot deny the fact MMoore is out producing him by a long way, this was he second game with over a 100 QBR, I don't care for the QBR system but there it is, in 29 starts Henne did not top it iirc.

 

so does moore, which he is getting. people are ridiculous anymore seriously henne at a min = moore only the ignorant think diff see ican do it to. not addressing you Oz, i agree with you on henne he s an avg qbm but so is moore

 

moore is def playing well. but bush is playing well, line is playing better etc.

talking henne is stupid and childish, let it go, hes gone. move forward with the now

 

I see no issue in comparing a current QB to a past QB, let alone one that played this year and still may be an option for the team moving forward.

 

Saying that Moore is better than Henne is just wrong...or right.


The facts are no one really knows what Henne would be doing right now, with this team. He was playing well before he was hurt, when the rest of the team was playing like crap. I assume that he'd still be playing well when the rest of the team picked it up. IMO, Henne is a lot better than Moore and it's a shame that he was hurt when he was because I think we're going to get rid of a pretty good QB.

Now, if we can still pick up Barkley or someone like him I don't think we'll miss anything other than a season or two waiting for that QB to get up to NFL speed.

 

lol this is funny, then compare everything factor it all in rather than just what fits you

 

cane has it right, its not that moore isnt better or is better, there is no way you can say henne wouldnt be paying well to

u can believe it but moore looked worse the first few games he played, then they as a team gelled so cant say for certainty

closest comparison is henne 1st 3 1/2 games vs moore's 1st 3 1/2 games. other than that its pointless

 

You gotta go back a few posts where I said Moore, and Henne both have their good and bad points. Combine the two and you might find a franchise Qb...

 

You can believe and use every fantasy what if you'd like. But, the fact remains is that in reality, Matt Moore is guiding the offense to heights Henne never did, with more starts, tenure, time with the team, time with this offense, better talent than Moore, etc. etc.

In no argument can it be said that Moore is in a more favorable condition when Henne played with a defense that was gelling. When he played with a defense that caused turnovers at times, when he played with offensive weapons, or the #2 overall running game, etc. Yet, he never did what Matt Moore did in his 4th start with Miami. 8 TD's in their last 10 redzone opportunities never happened with Henne. 3 TD's in one game, never happened with Henne, 3 game winning streak never happened with Henne, how about this 2 games in a season without a turnover! Never happened with Henne. I mean we aren't even experiencing crazy success, yet every time Matt Moore steps on the field he does something Henne did not.

I'm just not understanding it. I'm not saying Moore has more talent. I don't know if he'll have a better career. As a Miami Dolphin though, in Moore's short time, at this point (because who know it's highly likely he could go off a cliff starting Thursday in Dallas), he is a better Miami Dolphins QB, than Chad Henne was at any point in a Dolphins uniform.

But you continue to tell us what you believe, what you think, while I tell you what is happened and what has happened on the field.

REAL TALK! Haha always wanted to do that, where is that ish anyway?

 

wow u told me i want u for gm your so smrt. you proved 0 you showed why you believe what you do, good 4 u.

ridiculous

i would find it credible if YOU had started a thread after jets game saying moore > henne, but wait til the offense as a whole is playing better and bush is used correctly and thoms is healthy and sy it is bogus

and if u cant see the offense as a whole isnt way better now then i cant help u.

so i wont sit here and pat your back telling you how smrt you are

 

oh i agree moore is stronger improvising IMO and henne had his limitations

my point is henne is done, so to bring him up is pointless only serves to try to prove the unprovable.

we need to draft a franchise qb, i have no problem if moore is kept as a short term mentor/backup but he isnt long term hope IMO

 

I love how so many on here blame the offensive system for Henne's failures as a QB with the Dolphins. The reality is that Henne does indeed have a strong arm, but he just doesn't have what it takes to be a starter in the NFL. His play at the QB position has been inconsistent since he became the starter, three years ago. Where he has proved to be the weakest has been late in games where he needed to make plays to win the game. He has played terribly in the fourth quarter of games for the most part.

I don't see Moore being the long term answer for the Dolphins at the QB position, but I certainly think he is a far better NFL QB than Henne. I think the Dolphins are fortunate to have Moore already signed for next season. I think he will be a much better short term answer at the QB position for the Dolphins then Henne would be. Henne believes he should be the starter, while in truth he is no better than a back up in the NFL. I still feel that the future QB of the Dolphins is playing college football right now, but I also feel a lot better about the Dolphins offense with Moore quarterbacking the team then I ever felt with Henne as the Dolphins QB.

 

It's pretty simple to me. With Chad Henne in the game the last 3 years everyone was stuck in questions about who sucks more, who is overrated, what are the deficiencies in the offense, etc. Now that Matt Moore is in, we're talking about surprising players that are awesome (Charles Clay), how underrated guys like Anthony Fasano, Brian Hartline and Davone Bess are, how Reggie Bush might have been a good signing after all, etc.

Quarterback's job is to elevate the play of guys around him. Chad Henne never did that. Matt Moore is showing us that even a QB with mediocre talent can do that.

 

Pains me to admit it, but you are 100% correct. Moore has more of that "IT" factor than Henne ever did, despite the raw talent Henne had.. I've finally seen the light with Henne.

 

Now imagine if we actually get a good QB.

 

Matt Moore didn't have good protection in the Redskins game. Unfortunately for all of Miami QB's Columbo is still on the roster and starting at RT.

In that game Moore has 0 TD's, 1 INT, and 2 fumbles (losing 1). But he also completed 68% (keep this in mind) for 209 yards. The INT he threw he got hit while throwing.

The thing that I liked about Moore in that game was even though the was getting hit it didn't affect his mentality while playing. He only ran 2 times. He kept looking down field, moving around in the pocket, and making accurate throws.

Compare that to Matt Cassal in the KC game where he was feeling phantom pressure, tucking and running the ball, and his throws were off target. All because he was getting knocked around by the phins.

I completely admit that this is a biased sample in terms of Moore on my behalf. I have only watched the last two games and haven't seen the Bills game yet. So I didn't see Moore suck it up in the other games he has played.

 

I think the more prudent question is whether Moore should have been given more of a shot in training camp.

 

Man, I really didnt want to post in what I feel is a silly thread....but.....


It brings home the point that the BEST players in the mind of the fans become BEST because and really only because WINS are accomplished by the team. The concept of DREAM TEAM really doesnt apply in NFL where 11 on offense, 11 on defense, 11 on special teams all have to gel in facets that produced a TEAM outcome (unlike the basic same folks in Baseball, Basketball, Hockey or Soccer doing all facets).

So, I am often amazed at how the labeled STARs arent necessarily the BEST folks to fill out a roster. In NFL, it seems to be getting the RIGHT talent is more important to getting the BEST talent. The WINS simply make the fanbase feel they have the RIGHT and BEST talent. And Losses do the exact opposite, you could have STUDs but by producing losses they are viewed as less then STAR factor.

I want to acquire the RIGHT talent (and frankly - ironically - it may or may not be Mr. Luck as an example only). Which is why I dont chase DRAFT POSITION, I root for DRAFT SUCCESS. I never equate HIGH DRAFT PICK with guarantee to pick who will be the RIGHT talent, where others feel getting the BEST RATED STUD guarantees them to be the RIGHT or BEST talent for the role on the team.

From QB standpoint, I think thats how teams can find a Marino or Rodgers who slides in the first, or a Brees that falls into 2nd, or a Brady in the 6th, or a UDFA such as future HoF Warner.

Its why I also think that if some how Marino didnt land in Miami, or Rodgers in Green Bay, or Brees get traded to NO, or Brady drafted by NE, or Warner ultimately be in the right place at the right time with STL, their careers could have and most likely would have been different based on the team they may have gone to.

The NFL is not about getting the BEST TALENT of individuals, its about finding fits into a team made of groups of 11 individuals contributing to the overall success of all 53.....IMVHO!

 

I like what Matt Moore has shown because I think it means we've got a valuable asset to keep ion the team next year. Chad Henne's a free agent. Let him walk. His time is over, definitely in Miami if not in the NFL period. We need to draft a QB this year and develop him. Matt Moore can be party to that process, maybe starting a few games until the young guy is ready, or just backing him up and pushing him.