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Matt Moore might be a bad QB, but he is better than Henne.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by electrolyte, Nov 6, 2011.

  1. electrolyte

    electrolyte New Member

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    Didn't Chad Henne have the league worst string of like 17 or something straight games with at least 1 interception?
     
  2. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    I don't see any way around this being the situation going forward next year, unless by some miracle the current staff are retained. Moore, so far, has played as well as you could hope for given the disaster that was his 2010 season.
     
    electrolyte likes this.
  3. electrolyte

    electrolyte New Member

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    So your post on page 1 of this thread, maybe I should be the one putting you on ignore, and not you putting me ? hmm?

    Clearly, I saw something you didn't, and you posted a post that looks like a childish overreaction (the post, not you).... you now admit you were wrong.

    Ha.
     
  4. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    It is a bad comparison really considering we don't know how far Henne would have come once this offensive scheme started clicking but oh well kinda pointless since Henne will more than likely run the hell away from the Dolphins as fast as he can.
    And yes Matt Moore is playing very well.
     
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  5. electrolyte

    electrolyte New Member

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    We already did see him. We saw him play pathetically vs the Browns in the red zone, watched Colt McCoy lead his team down the field for the winning TD and watch Henne throw an INT to lose the game.

    Henne can run wherever he likes. He will find that no team is ever going to give him a starting job in the NFL ever again unless it's a situation like Washington where John Beck got to play due to their situation.

    Career backup.
     
  6. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Nope. Two separate things. You didn't need to create a post to bash Henne, who for all intensive purposes is done here.. We all know that.
     
  7. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Chad Henne was ruined here so it really doesn't make a difference. When he played this offense was still in confusion mode. They had zero idea how to use Reggie Bush or Daniel Thomas when he was playing. The chemistry and protection from the OL was disastrous. The defense wasn't forcing turnovers and struggled to stop anyone. Those things have been addressed and are being fixed. Remember to keep in mind it is a team game. Why do you have to constantly be reminded of that. LOL
    You blame Henne for Colt McCoy taking his team down the field. You funny man.
     
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  9. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    SFL was a failure. When you have your tail between your legs and are desperate you reach for whatever you can. :lol:
     
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  10. electrolyte

    electrolyte New Member

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    When we catch ourselves making excuse after excuse for somebody, perhaps we should stop and think about why we are doing it.
     
  11. electrolyte

    electrolyte New Member

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    Most posters here see this thread and see a discussion that our 3-4 year starting QB that went down a few games ago, is being shown up by a journeyman QB who we just signed this off-season. That journeyman QB is sparking the offense more than our 3-4 year starter ever did, and it's become clear what was holding this team's offense back. That is certainly worth discussing.

    You call that "Henne bashing".

    Clearly, that's all this thread was for. Henne bashing.

    and now that you are "pained" to admit you were wrong and agree with this thread, you still won't acknowledge me.

    Ok, bro. Enjoy.
     
  12. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    It's a done deal. I know you are mad that the Dolphins are winning and your movement tanked.
    No reason to take your grumpiness out on me.
    I'm in the Dolphins corner here. You are somewhere in another galaxy.
     
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  13. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Hard to separate the QB from the things you mention as changed.

    There hasn't been an extreme change in how they use Bush. He's been more effective, because we've forced defenses out of playing a lot of man coverage. Why did we force defenses out of man coverage? Because we were able to get the ball to our TEs down the middle of the field.

    Why is the protection better? Is it because the OL are playing better? Is it because the QB does a better job of reading the pass rush? Is it because the QB is more effective at play action? Its hard to quantify, but I would venture to guess its likely a combination of all of the above. Everything goes hand-in-hand.
     
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  14. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    Henne was already better in the time he played in this offense. One that didn't really go through any training camp or vital practice time.
    You don't think there is a learning curve there. Sure Moore is playing very well but to make the assumption that this thread is stating is pure speculation.
    No one can say exactly where Henne would be right now if he were playing.
    Also I forgot that when you guys evaluate QB's you forget to include a defenses success with team success.
    That is a giant boo-boo.... :pointlol:
     
  15. electrolyte

    electrolyte New Member

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    In every or almost every win (and some losses like the Giants game), the Dolphins have stormed out to an early lead by scoring points. Up 21-3, up 14-0, etc...

    That changes how opposing offense's play and how the dolphins defense plays. Having an early lead certainly affects the game on all levels.
     
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  16. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    A defenses success can be impacted by the QB as well. Again, hard to separate things that are interdependent.
     
  17. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're right. We can't predict where Henne could be. What we can talk about is what Matt Moore has done. And that is something Chad Henne has never accomplished in his 25+ starts. So, it's much easier to talk about production vs production rather than "well he could've done this, would've done this, etc".

    Matt Moore made 3 plays that IMO Henbe would have never made or attempted.
     
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  18. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    Chad Hennes on his couch eating cheetos.....JS..
     
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  19. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    -A 14 year vet Testaverde did it twice back in 2000. I'm not sure your point here.
    -Collins didn't throw a single TD in 7 of 14 games in 1997 with Henning. What did Collins's career look like after Henning had him?
    -Pennington? 14 of 20 games in 2008 & 09 had 1 or 0 TDs. Penny regressed in 2009 after a year with Henning.
    -Rodney Peete? 12 of his 14 games with Henning in 2002 had 1 or less TDs.

    Delhomme is the only real exception. He started out as a promising looking QB, and then what happened to him under Henning? During Dan's last season in Carolina (before he was fired), Delhomme had 7 of 13 games with 1 or less TDs. Perhaps Delhomme was actually better than his stats suggested and Henning ruined him, too.


    Those are all you have? They don't scream long term success stories once with Henning. What about all the other QBs under Henning's watch? Where are all the stars that were born whom we saw blossom into a fine NFL career?
     
  20. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    Everyone mentions Henne didn't have time to adjust to the offense, and that is true to a point. But Henne had years of experience with Fasano, Bess, Hartline, and Marshall. Moore had none of that. He was in a new offense and had zero chemistry w/ the receivers.
     
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  21. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Henne had better chemistry with Bess and Hartline than Moore and arguably the only thing holding back Moore in terms of personnel is the offensive line and the #2 WR position. Someone has to move up (cough... Gates... cough) and take that spot.
     
  22. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    Delhomme's stats weren't anything to write home about after Henning's departure (Henning left in Jan. of 2007 I think).
    http://www.nfl.com/player/jakedelhomme/2500361/profile

    Henning ruining multiple QBs? Can you provide more evidence? Pennington was more than fine under Henning and Delhomme threw more TDs than INTs in every season he played. A feat that Henne has yet to accomplish. So I am not following how Henning is ruining multiple QB's.
     
  23. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Here's an easy way of knowing if he ruined QBs. His QBs passer ratings for three years straight fell down the tubes when the team was ahead no matter who was the quarterback. Even Pennington in 2008 made most of his numbers in the toughest parts of the game, while when ahead they would crash down since every DC knew exactly what was coming.
     
  24. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    Have you done the number crunching on this or know someone who has?

    Also I am not sure if being a bad play caller when a team is ahead = ruining a QB for his career.
     
  25. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Those are all players that with one game had 3 touchdowns under Henning.
     
  26. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I have done the number crunching. Check ESPN.com's stats while the team is ahead, behind etc for each player.
     
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  27. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I love how everyone keeps talking about Henne's first 3 games vs. Moores. Yeah, except Henne's been here three years with these WRs and oh yeah, TRAINING CAMP and PRESEASON.

    But other than that, sure, same thing
     
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  28. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    Sure I can. I've seen Henne not playing well his entire career. I'm supposed to believe he's miraculously going to turn into that QB midway through his 3rd season as a starter?
     
  29. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Now I know that there's no way Moore becomes a franchise quarterback, but what prevents him from joining those higher level QBs just under the franchise guys, the Alex Smiths, Matt Schaubs, Matt Ryan, and Michael Vick type quarterbacks?
     
  30. mbmonk

    mbmonk I have no clue

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    Thanks. I didn't know that ESPN had the break down like that. Very cool.

    When I looked at the breakdown you are correct. Also though if you look at the QB rating for the players when they are winning by 1 - 7 points and then winning by 15 - 22 the rating are almost the exact same.

    So Henning is changing the play calling even if he is only up by a field goal as if he was up by 22? That seems a bit strange. Being up 3 is very different than 22.

    Regardless thanks for the info. Nice resource.
     
  31. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    They went ultra conservative when they were ahead. This year they did that when Miami was up Big, at least 14 points or so. Otherwise it was more or less the same.
     
  32. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    The offense as a whole is better because they have a competent QB at the helm. A competent QB who makes the right reads, has touch, and timing, and ball placement, things Henne doesn't even have when he dreams about being a competent QB. Even the defense is putting in more effort because they realize they finally have a chance to actually win games. No more having to do everything because Henne is such a joke of a QB who can't convert 3rd downs or score TD's in the redzone.
     
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  33. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Moore hasn't been that impressive reading the field. He's better than Henne in that regard, but he has a lot of flaws that fortunately Miami is doing its best to hide. Jake Long's play has been unheralded the last few games but his ability to keep Moore upright has really changed Moore's confidence passing down the field and helps him adjust to other pass breakdowns. The offense has really shifted to a more pro style approach rather than the spread and that's where Moore is at his best, the OL is probably at it best, and the team is starting to gel.

    He's a system guy, but if you have a good system and good parts to that group he can be a high TD to INT ratio 200-250 yard a week passer. Couple that with a strong rushing game and who does that sound like?
     
  34. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    Oh yea, the offensive scheme is just now clicking. Please tell me how different our scheme is now than when Henne was at QB? Offensive line is still getting the QB hit. Reggie Bush is still taking most of his carries up the middle, and it's still working to no avail for the most part. Thomas can't even run up the middle with this line. The scheme isn't finally clicking, it's the QB who's competent enough to use his TE's. It's the QB who's making better reads and better throws.
     
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  35. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    I'll be interested in how we do over the next 3 games or so. If Moore continues to play well, then the conversation will have to be breached, it just will. If he continues to play well against the next few opponents, then he will have answered some questions regarding the team's mini turnaround. If he falters, then fine, we know he is what he is. If he blossoms, then well..........your guess is as good as mine.
     
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  36. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    It's not easy to do well against Dallas. They're an extremely good team, but fortunately for him they're weak down the middle in pass defense. That's where Moore has excelled and it's where arguably all of Miami's targets excel at getting open. Look for Fasano-Clay to be featured AGAIN and AGAIN, with Marshall mixed in. It does beg the question Con. If Moore is a credible NFL QB the team's needs are not too far away.
     
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  37. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    Reggie Bush and Daniel Thomas are still being used the same exact way. And they're still putting up awful YPC averages. Offensive line is still disastrous. Chad Henne had a defense last year, still sucked as a QB. Henne wasn't ruined here, he was never any good to begin with. That's why he was drafted at the end of the 2nd round. He has the same problems in the NFL he displayed at Michigan.
     
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  38. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    They sound like Jets fans.
     
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  39. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    Not sure what this post has to do with anything. The Dolphins are gaining nothing by winning games except for maybe setting themselves up for disaster should they decide to keep Moore as the starter for next year and continue to ignore the QB position.
     
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  40. Clipse

    Clipse mediocrity sucks

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    You said Henne would never be able to put up 3 TD's in a game because of Henning. You have been proven wrong. The only person stopping Henne from throwing 3 TD's in a game is himself, because of that being a terrible QB thing he has going...
     
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