Well, I have watched him play and thought he was just okay, reminded me of an upgraded version of Kellen Clemons, his stats: GS: 13 TD to Int ratio: 16 to 17 Completion %: 57.9 Age: 26 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoorMa01.htm Would put him on the cusp of what I'd think is required in a serious challenger for Chad Henne to win the Qb job, he also had ended a season twice on the IR, but I do seem to recall some folks whose football views I respect liked his game and his prospects. In 09 the panthers had a strong rushing attack and he had good success. http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=8686855 (sort of cool a link to what a scouting report actually looks like, first time I've seen one, of course may not be real blah blah blah)
Saw darkhorse and first thought was Matt Moore. I haven't "broken down the film" but have watched a lot of the Panthers, including all of this past season's preseason games, the preseason where their offense was bad beyond words. He might have flashed a little in relief of Delhomme in 09' but don't see him ever being a quality starter. No thanks.
I feel like this guy is the king of kind adjectives. I know Ron Jaworski really liked him. I know that Mike Mayock liked him. Yet, he's never produced. I dunno...
Well, let's be honest here, that was a 2-14 Panthers team for a reason, when Williams and Stewart both suffered injuries they were down to Steve Smith and a couple of Rook wr's, they just did not have very much to work with in Carolina in 2010. Which makes Jimmy Pickle Clausen and Moore sort of unknowns as Clausen was just a rook and Moore was trying to get bye.
Indeed, "wait, what" You'd have to have watched John Fox over the yrs to understand it KM, he is a good coach but he won't play young players until he absolutely has to play them, and even then Jerry Richardson made it known that Fox was only still there because his 6 million per yr contract was guaranteed going into his last yr, things were really ugly in Carolina last season.
He did pretty well in 2009, and in 2010 the entire Panthers offense was pretty bad so not going to overly judge him by that season. In college I liked him very much and then when I saw Lande rate him so high coming out, top 10, maybe top 5, amongst QBs, I felt even better about him. IMO, he could be a good reclamation project in the right situation.
I recalled you and B14 liked him, for me when I watched him play he sort of always did better then you'd think he would do, sort of lull you to sleep but at the end of the game he would have had a solid effort in 09 and really when he played in 07 as well. Surprising how close he is to the measures imho a Qb we would look at would need to have some sort of hope for the guy.
Ok. I can get on board with that. In your opinion MC, is this the right situation for him? I love Tony Sparano. I'm excited about Brian Daboll, but just as an employee looking for a good fit, I dunno if I would view this as a good situation. He would have the chance to compete for the QB spot for sure.
The last time Matt Moore was a "darkhorse" for me was back at Oregon State. I respect Lande enough that if he says Moore is good, I'll actually take a look. But I'm not expecting much.
IMO, it is the right situation if Moore feels comfortable in Daboll's offense and I don't know why he wouldn't. A chance to compete for a starting job, he can't expect anymore than that anywhere else.
I didn't realize Russ Lande had Matt Moore rated that highly coming out of college. His evaluation is starting to make more sense. 1. Russ is sticking with his own previous evaluations 2. He's trying to continue to make commentary on Cam Newton That's where he's going with this. Because I just got done watching a lot of Matt Moore footage and let me tell you, I'd take Chad Henne over him all day, every day. Moore is incredibly inconsistent and it didn't have nearly as much to do with surrounding cast issues as people think. I saw good pass protection a lot of the time, I even saw guys making plays amongst the receivers. Did I see some ugliness here and there of offensive linemen getting whipped, or receivers running the wrong routes? I did. Some. But you're going to have that. The Panthers were in THE most trouble when a defense could pin their ears back in a predictable passing situation and put pressure on the offense. But I watched, when Moore was in, often times the Panthers GOT into those situations because of his own inconsistency and his own limitations. Let's get something out of the way first, this is a weak-armed quarterback. He's a guy you have to cover for in your offensive playbook and game planning, just not going to make some throws the way you'd love to make them. That underlies everything. But he's not really an accurate quarterback. His inaccuracy kills him during these games. The ball placement isn't there. His ball floats, it flutters, has a weak trajectory, when he tries to place it low or high, he'll miss high or wide, he can't even consistently hit those quick hitters, the screens...with good ball placement. His decision-making quickness is very inconsistent. He can throw with great anticipation when he has a solid plan for what he's doing, but other times he'll have a good plan for what he's doing and he still just pulls the trigger late. The information processing isn't there, and so often he just doesn't recognize the disguised coverages. This leads to bad decisions, and it also leads to missing open receivers. What he does well is A) He can run when things break down, B) He can recognize defenses to some degree when they're not disguised and throw the deep dig with anticipation and timing. Those are pretty much the only things he could do consistently. Otherwise he was spotty when pressured in the pocket, felt a lot of phantom pressure, didn't show natural instincts for operating within that pocket or climbing the ladder, could make absolutely terrible, terrible, terrible decisions at times, the kind that cost you games, didn't do a good job consistently recognizing defenses and developing a plan for attacking them, didn't place the ball well on short passes, had a high miss percentage, and I didn't like his temperament in terms of staying cool when things got rough. He's the kind of guy I would go after mercilessly if I were a defensive coordinator, because I don't think he could punch me back. Not unlike John Beck in 2007.
That really killed any momentum in this one for me lol I'd def take a look at Moore and/or Clausen if they're out of CAR.
Incidentally if Moore was brought to the Cowboys as a UDFA in 2007 and was cut by the team...then Sparano and Ireland are plenty familiar with him, and I don't think it's very safe to say they like him. He was the 3rd quarterback behind Tony Romo and Brad Johnson, and they still cut him...only keeping 2 quarterbacks on roster. Carolina claimed him off waivers. It's one thing if you're cut because there's a guy on roster that is more experienced than you. It's another if you're the #3 and they still don't want you.
Valid point ck, but we've seen how Ireland and Sparano have outside the norm views on roster flexibility the fact the panthers snatched him up and he started games that yr is perhaps more telling about what was thought of him around the league. That "braintrust" is also the same that did not want Tony Romo it took Sean Payton lobbying hard to keep him in Dallas. and it is not as if I'm some huge Matt Moore fan, to me his upside is Shaun Hill and his performance is just outside of the 60%/1 to 1/20 games started/30 or under that imho is what they should be looking for which makes him more of a risk then I'd like.
He's not a quarterback I want any part of. I want a good player at the position. Not a bad one. The guy I'd rather roll the dice on in Carolina would be a guy that I never liked coming out, Jimmy Clausen. At least he's got a boat load of talent and by the end of the season in Carolina, he made throws, the kind of throws that hurt defenses. I'd rather take the chance that I was wrong about Jimmy coming out of college than that I'm wrong about Matt Moore now. At least in college when I was down on him it was purely because I didn't consider him worthy of a 1st round pick. Taking him in the lower 2nd round was probably a good deal for the Panthers in all actuality...I didn't realize he'd get that far down the board. Part of my not wanting him in the 1st was bad quarterback character, part of it was on-field. As for the character part, sometimes experience changes that. Clausen has had about as bad experience the last 15 months as anyone. He's practically been worshiped since coming out of High School. Everyone was always sure he'll be the next great thing in the pros. Then he gets picked apart by the Draft process which showed serious flaws in his game and his quarterback character, and he falls to the end of the 2nd round, drafted by a team that coincidentally is about to IMPLODE. So then on top of this Draft process which was humiliating and unkind to Jimmy, he's on a 1-15 team and forced to play early. The team gets the #1 overall pick and even though they claimed they were committed to him, they chose Cam Newton at #1 overall. For Jimmy Clausen, the only way life could get any worse would be if he were in jail. Some guys are permanently scarred by that kind of experience. Some guys come out of it a lot better for it. Jimmy Clausen was far too arrogant coming out of college, but I'd be willing to plump a draft pick and see if that's still the case after going through everything he's gone through.
Watching Jimmy Clausen play against the Steelers Week 16. By Week 16 & 17 I think Jimmy was by far, far, far, far and away the best QB on the Panthers' roster. There are some plays and some throws in here...these are the plays that hurt defenses. One in particular, Jordan Gross makes an adjustment to block a blitzing ILB which leaves James Harrison blitzing free without a blocker. Jimmy pump fakes Harrison to get him leaping in the air, then circles out wide of him, throws it to a back in man coverage, and the ball placement was just superb. The man coverage has his back turned to the QB so Jimmy underthrows the ball low and outside so the back can make the adjustment on the ball. He threw the guy open, and I think it was a third down conversion. Superb play. No contest between Matt Moore and Jimmy Clausen who the better player is. Jimmy's not getting everything right as far as his plan for defeating certain defensive looks but it's interesting how he has the physical ability to enact a different plan and have it come out nearly as good (with a little bit of help from the skill position players). There was another play where based on the play design and coverage look he probably should have had a plan to hit his Tight End on the out route near the sticks. He missed that one, but he climbed the pocket well and hit Jonathan Stewart as he was leaking out of the backfield, and Stewart had enough space to make a play, breaking tackles, etc. Athletic, nice little play by Jimmy. I like that he's got the ability to make a mistake on a play, maybe not quite read it and have a plan for it the same way Tom Brady would have, but to make up for it with his physical skills and technique. Tell you the truth the first bad mistake I've seen of Jimmy's in this game is taking a sack on 4th & 5 but on this one, I'll be god damned if I have any clue why Jeff Davidson is calling 4 verticals on the Steelers on 4th & 5. The Steelers brought the house, 6 man pass rush, and so the back stays in to block. The back would have been the only guy running a route at the sticks, but he has to block otherwise Jimmy wouldn't have even had time to hit him. I liked Jimmy's instincts for climbing the pocket on the play, he knew the overload was coming from his right so he tried to step up and to the left, but the back couldn't pick up Farrior very well to the left and so he was stepping right into Farrior's area. I wonder what Clausen's adjustment responsibilities were on the play, he might have missed a call or something.
Jimmy Clausen was by far the worst rookie Qb I've seen play in the NFL, as in "overmatched" being a kind word to use in conjunction with his play.
Probably academic anyway, with respect to Clausen. Marty Hurney is not going to give Clausen up. He accepted the pick of Cam Newton, which I think was probably brought onto him by Ron Rivera and Jerry Richardson, but I think Jimmy Clausen is Marty's lifeline. They're probably parting ways with Matt Moore (can't blame them), and so Jimmy has a good shot to get a fair amount of playing time this year as no doubt Newton is an especially raw prospect coming out. So Jimmy will have chances, and if Marty ends up right about Clausen, even if Newton fails, he gets to blame Richardson and Rivera for Newton's failure while taking credit for Clausen's success. Marty isn't about to part with Jimmy for a 3rd or 4th round pick, Clausen is too valuable to him on that basis.
That's an overstatement. He was not good in those first games, not quite John Beck bad but pretty close. However, if the Steelers and Falcons games are included in your analysis that he was the worst rookie QB that you've ever seen, I question whether you know what you're seeing.
Well, put it this way, it was not the play alone per se, it was his on the field attitude as well, he was playing badly and it appeared he was blaming his teammates for being bad, Beck was just bad, Clausen was bad and pouting imho. And they have no reason to get rid of him, he will be the #2 Qb for awhile and see where things go from there.
Trust me, Clausen did some of that in college and so I'm sensitive to it, I look for it. All I can say is, in the Atlanta and Pittsburgh games, what you're describing didn't happen.
I think, perhaps it is time to revisit this thread simply because we've seen MMoore play a whole lot more then anyone could have thought we would when he was signed, he's proven to show some of the things CK mentioned negatively, but he also showed some positive traits that maybe should be reapproached so that if there was an oversight, we all can learn from it.
I'm impressed with Moore, much more than I thought I would be. Thing is, I'm not sure I can remember such a night and day quarterback before. When it's bad for Matt Moore, it tends to be REAL bad. But when it's good, it's REAL good. And in many games he takes turns showing you the mind blowing awful plays and then the extremely impressive plays. I think the phrase was "consistently inconsistent", no? In 2010, he was consitently pretty bad. But in 2009 he had some good performances and he's showing more in 2011.
CK, Have you changed your stance on this comment? For me, I never want to see Chad Henne take another snap for Miami.
Same here, when I started this one it was mostly as an attempt to find a Scrap Heap Qb who: -had a 60% or higher completion rate -had started 20 games -had a 1 to 1 int to td ratio (clearly better Qb's do better, but we were looking at bottom of the barrel/castoffs) MMoore only came close in completion % and td to int ratio, so I was not to thrilled, but had seen him play well in spurts. Some of the issues you referenced, does not see the whole field (though is improving) and takes sacks, we've seen manifest itself this yr Some other attributes though, good deep touch, willingness to throw the ball into the EZ and produce TD's and accuracy, are somewhat new and or improved. Have to wonder if it is System/Coaching, or MMoore just maturing as he goes through more starts.
its remarkable to me that matt moore has snuck into the top 10 in the league for passer rating. it would spark an interesting debate if it were Chad Henne in the top 10 at the moment. the rest of the year has to play out obviously. Moore has been efficient, but not very prolific. he is passing under 200 yd/gm and only 1 TD/gm.
Pads, i think it is a bit of both .... Daboll has a very nice thing going - now that he has finally figured out how to better use Bush, and getting Marshall downfield ... add to that a nice addition in Clay (although he couldn't catch the ball on SUN) .... Very different offense, even from week 3 ... i don't think we are asking Moore to do much -- and he is given several options downfield on every play -- something we know didn't see with Henning at any time. Moore is playing quite nicely ... no doubt about it ... the team has confidence in him, and why not .... they are winning - who wouldn't. It is amusing though to read posts inferring that if Moore was here last year, he would have been able to complete those passes to Marshall triple covered over the middle .... yep, I'm sure he could of -- and led us to a SB the last 2 years to boot.
I have indeed. I think I would take Matt Moore over Chad Henne. This stint by Moore has shown me a little more of what Chad Henne is missing in terms of his feel for the game.
MMoore has shown more touch/timing then we were led to believe he has at his disposal when we signed him. As for his volume, keep in mind we are not a prolific passing team, he rarely has over 30 pass attempts
Actually I don't really agree with that. He had some REALLY bad games, especially toward the beginning of his stint here. And there have been a few other games that were really only lucky/unlucky break here or there away from turning into really bad games.
Thing is, and the real question is, does that come from Moore's natural developmental curve? Scheme? Talent that fits his skill set in Marshall and Fasano and DBess?
I continue to be impressed by Brian Daboll's system but not necessarily his play calling. Or perhaps I need to be impressed with first time QB Coach Karl Dorrell?
I think his streakiness. I always thought Chad Henne's games were pretty consistent in that he'd go a good drive then a couple of bad ones, etc...to where most games of his looked about the same. I think Moore has a little more streakiness in him and it's resulting in more touchdowns. When you have a defense that keeps getting the other guys off the field and giving you more tries, that works.
One thing I enjoy watching Moore do is actually work the pocket. There have been multiple times when he actually created passing lanes and made the necessary adjustments to not get sacked. Unlike Henne who would do standing there, moving towards the defender causing a sack and once in a blue moon work the pocket giving me hope he figured it out.
The win loss record is not a result of MM starting at QB as opposed to Henne , but if some people want to believe that you are more than welcome to fool yourselves. I am not a Henne apologist , I was VERY adamant we needed a QB after last season and my solution , although not easy or maybe even feasible was to move up for Cam Newton . I was strongly of the opinion he was a legitimate franchise QB , well before the draft. Henne did show to me he had worked hard and made a tangible difference in his game over the off season. I am not and was not in favour of annointing him the defacto starter for next year and felt and still feel we address the QB position properly this draft. It is my opinion that if he was not hurt Miami would have more than 4 wins at this point . I don't discredit MM but to think the wins came as a singular result of his play , and his play only is foolish imo.
