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What's the price YOU pay?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Zod, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Consider this the message to Bill Polian thread....

    There are going to be countless threads about quarterbacks from now until draft day. Everyone seems to have a favorite after Andrew Luck. But I can't remember a single person that has went on record saying that Luck wasn't the top pick.

    There is now no doubt that the Colts will have the top pick in the draft. There is also no doubt that if some team doesn't step up and pay a significant price, Andrew Luck will be selected by the Colts.

    The circumstance has me curious as to why (if we are so close) we would hesitate to step up and pay the price. This franchise has floundered for well over a decade in dire need of a franchise QB. It seems to me that if this is the guy, you don't mess around. You go out and you get him.

    You can reject this premise based upon "not my guy.". You can "no comment" for the sake of he's not for sale. I must admit that I think the latter is cowardly as there is a price for every draft pick.

    So here we go. Man up and name the price YOU pay to move your top ten pick down to 1st overall.
     
    electrolyte and Aquafin like this.
  2. MAFishFan

    MAFishFan Team Tannehill

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    trade up to get barkley...and if you can't, trade to get rg3...i wouldn't mortgage the draft for luck...therer are other needs that need to be addressed, like the OL and CLEARLY FA is not the way to go for Miami...i'd package this year's first and next year's first to get barkley...luck will cost too much...that's guess on my part for barkley...i'm not a personel man, so i have no idea what the going rate for barkely, but luck is rumored to be 3 firsts and then some...too much if you ask me...no team that has traded an entire draft (think of NO and ricky and minny and hershel walker) and had it work out for them, it always sets the other team up...i'm a barkley guy, work a deal to get him and if you can't work a deal to get in position for rg3..it's one of those 2...period...no more 2nd rd qb's and taking jones in the top 10 seems like a reach to me
     
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  3. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Ask yourself "Is he the guy?". Then answer again.

    1st and 3rd in 2012
    1st and 3rd in 2013

    I would change the 2012 3rd to a 2nd if its a must. If this is the guy, I'm all in. You?
     
  4. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    You don't have to be a personel guy. Its a little math combined with your desire.

    http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php
     
  5. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    The only team I can see taking Barkley is Washington and Cleveland. Washington and Miami are neck and neck for the next QB to go depends on the finish and Cleveland could always jump ahead they have the fire power to do so.
     
  6. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Which begs the question: What's the price you pay? :)
     
  7. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    The QB I would love to see in Miami next year, if he decides to declare for the draft is RG111. To ensure they are able to draft him, the Dolphins should offer the Rams their first round picks in 2012 and 2013, plus their second round pick in 2012.
     
  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    How about "how in the hell do you know Polian would even trade the pick to begin with, and how do you know some other team would not offer even more for it"?
     
  9. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I would give up this year's 1 and 2 and next year's 1 and 3.
     
  10. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

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    Yes
     
  11. Georgia Fin

    Georgia Fin Fin For Life

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    After 28 years of nothing, you go all in if you identify the one you have to have. Anything less is just more of the same chicken ****!!!!!!
     
  12. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    It’s going to cost more than that, thanks not only to the need for elite quarterback play but also the rookie wage slotting system.
     
    Stringer Bell likes this.
  13. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Yup.. And what if Indy just decides that no offer will suffice? If they learned anything from the past 25 years, it was that a franchise QB can impact your franchise in many more ways than a few extra draft picks... After all, this is the same team that was irrelevant for decades before Manning arrived.. Why pass up the chance to extend that another 15 years?
     
  14. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    It might take the threat of chemical warfare, kitten killing, sending over a bunch of supermodel escorts, and acts of God to get the Colts to pass on drafting Andrew Luck.
     
  15. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For Andrew Luck, I would trade:

    2012 First Rounder
    2012 Second Rounder
    2013 First Rounder
    Anyone on our roster NOT named Jake Long (or maybe Jake Long).
     
  16. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    while I agree with you, the counterpoint would be if Indy believes they can still get a Barkley or RGIII, still be successful, and stockpile draft picks around their new QB.
     
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  17. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Colts also know that they suck at drafting. Suck really badly. Their past 5 drafts have been totally crap. Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_Colts_draft_history#2011_Draft Scroll up a bit and tell me they know what the hell they're doing in the draft.

    They might not trade down cause they know that even if they get a boatload of picks, they'll screw it up!
     
  18. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Problem is, we retained Ireland. He hasn't placed the appropriate value on the QB position in any of the 4 years he's already been here. What makes anyone thinks he's about to start now?
     
  19. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Self-preservation!
     
  20. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    It would appear that the Boss has made it his priority.. Unless Ireland has a head of absolute granite and the understanding of a Zabriskan Fontema.. (ref. E E Smith for the uninitiated) he will do whatever it takes to get said (possible) "franchise" quarterback in the fold as quickly as is practicable.
     
  21. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    If I'm the Phins and the Colts are SERIOUS about playing ball, I would offer our #1, #2 and next years #1 and #2... If the Colts pushback I would through in Vontae Davis or even Wake. We have pieces on offense and D, but need to spend the rest of the draft focusing on our depth, which is abysmal.. A new coaching staff should drive competition at all the positions and raise the level of play amongst our backups..We've seen what happens to this offensive line when we face a bit of adversity.
     
  22. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Whatever it takes to get Luck, Barkley or RG3rd. No way I am happy with Jones or Weeden as consolation prizes. Whatever. It. Takes.
     
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  23. ScottishFin

    ScottishFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    2011 and 2012 1st round picks plus whatever may be needed to get it done from 2011 draft picks and players

    Despite Luck looking like a great player its not worht mortgaging 3 drafts for IMO, better to sound the Colts out and if its insane tall them thanks but no thanks and to come back if they want to trade. Then look to move to get barkley or RG3 for a lower price or even pick them outright if the 3 above us pull out more wins than us in the remaining 3 games.
     
  24. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    The price will be fairly steep, but I think some may be overstating the cost. If most of the juniors declare, you're going to have some very fine QB's in this draft. And the vibe that I've been getting lately is that while Luck is a terrific prospect, not everyone around the NFL thinks the guy is far off on his own pedestal in comparison to the others. So while some teams may explore the option, the demand may not truly be there. Also consider that as of right now, the teams that are probably drafting high and looking for a QB are arguably few (Washington, Miami, Cleveland), and that Indy may not want to move down more than 4-5 spots so that they can still draft a super blue-chip player.

    Another variable in this is going to be how much Indy is willing to trade the 1st pick. If they truly do not want to hang on to the pick for fear that it may cause issues by drafting Luck, then the price, while still fairly significant, may be cheaper than you might suspect depending on how badly any of those other teams are willing to pay based on the QB options left and how far down Indy is willing to go.
     
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  25. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It would certainly behoove Jeff Ireland to at least pick up the phone and make an offer. However unrealistic it might seem, Ireland won't know unless he asks. No more due diligence in that than asking Dez Bryant if his mother is a lady of the night.

    As for a price:

    2012 1st and 3rd round picks
    2013 1st and 2nd round picks

    You can maybe throw in Brian Hartline, Kevin Burnett, Jared Odrick, or Sean Smith or a combination of those guys. Any of the four would improve the Colts roster from what they already have, especially on defense. I'd be willing to part with any two of the four.
     
    DolfanTom likes this.
  26. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    I'd chip in 50 bucks.
     
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  27. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I wouldn't want the Number One overall (too much to give), truth is I don't believe there is that much of a difference between Luck, RG3, and Barkley......I believe they all possess aspects more positive than the other......

    I would want any one of these guys I have no preference, so to me I would wait until 2 of those 3 guys were gone, then make a deal to move up.....if they are on the board AND 2 of those 3 guys are there still, I try to move back one or 2 spots if possible and try to accumulate picks...
     
  28. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    I wouldn't give up what it will take for Luck, I would go for Barkley/Griffin/Weeden and give up far less to get one of them. Not that I don't want Luck, I just don't want to give up our future for him.
     
    MAFishFan likes this.
  29. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    I am not willing to trade what it will take to get Luck, so I say nothing. Trading for Barkley or Griffin is preferable to me (if it even has to come to that)
     
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  30. DolfanTom

    DolfanTom Livin' and Dyin' w/ Ryan!

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    I pay whatever it takes for Luck. He's the real deal, and he will be a star for a decade or more. I'd pay slightly less for Barkley. To me, though, just got get Luck and get this whole QB thing taken care of. As sure a thing as there will be coming into the QB position from college in quite some time.
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If you believe any of these guys sets the position for over a decade, virtually no price is too high. Considering we've mired in suckitude or mediocrity at the QB position for over a decade I'm not sure why people don't understand this.

    We've constantly set our franchise back by not going balls out. Draft picks are overrated. The only reason they have value is because of the players you use them on. If you have close to a sure thing at the most important position, then screw the "value" of a pick or future picks. Every team with a great QB playing are perennial contenders. That is the only difference between those teams and us. So if we are currently average or below by constantly trying to get "value" for picks, then its time to throw caution to the wind. Being safe has netted us nothing.

    Hell New Orleans set their franchise "so far back" by giving up their entire draft for Ricky freaking Williams, they've won a Super Bowl and are consistently a top team all in the same time we've been looking for Dan's heir.

    Give and do whatever it takes to get a QB.
     
  32. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    I sure hope all these people who were rooting for us to win-out know good and well it would accomplish nothing but hurt this team are feeling good about this craptastic team right now. AGAIN we **** it up. Were going to be to high to get a franchise QB, and not have enough ammo to trade up to get the better QB's! Again we will look through some trash if Ireland has his say..

    I'm so upset right now at how things are turning out with the firing of Sparano (I approve) but leaving Ireland is horrible mistake again ROSS showing hes clueless. Fire Ireland ask your buddy Peterson to help find a REAL GM and COACH...

    Hopefully Ireland is going and we just don't know it yet...
     
  33. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    Nobody here is against Andrew Luck or drafting a QB.

    We all agree on what needs to get done. However, some people, myself included, think it's beyond asinine to intentionally tank the season AND compete for worst record in NFL history. That is not the way competitive football is played and goes against human nature.

    The Colts are not tanking right now, they are guaranteed the number 1 pick and have no incentive to continue losing, yet are continuing to get blown out...

    So lets throw that argument out the window, they are amongst the worst team in NFL history. The Dolphins are slightly below mediocre and their record reflects that. You will not win this argument with me.

    I will however strongly advise the team to sit Jake Long and Matt Moore, even if they can play.. No point in risking further injury.. If that happens let's pray we finish 1-2 and end up 5-11 in the top 5... I can't root for us to lose to the Jets, especially if we can take them out of the playoffs.
     
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  34. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I think if you go through all the franchise QBs in the NFL, you'll see that many aren't drafted in the top 10.
     
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  35. DePhinistr8

    DePhinistr8 Season Ticket Holder

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    yuppers...of the best 3 right now (rodgers, brady, brees) only 1 was a 1st round pick, and that was in the 20s
     
  36. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    In fact, if you go back and review all of the #1 picks, the chances of picking up an absolute bust are just about as much as picking a good player, and somewhat less for picking a franchise player. There have been 75 NFL drafts - 75 players taken #1 overall. Throw out the last three years because of the lack of time for those players to show too very much.... and of the 72 left, 28 played in at least one Pro Bowl, and 12 are Hall of Famers. The probability is roughly 39% for finding a pro bowl player in the 1st pick of the 1st round, and 17% that the player will wind up in the Hall of Fame. That means that they is 44% probability that the draft pick could be anything from another "just a guy" to a complete bust. That seems to be a very poor opportunity to be the farm on a drafted player. For an established player still in good shape and fairly young, yeah.. two #1's could be all right. For what basically is very little more than a SWAG - 2 #1's and 2 #2's seems unreasonable to me.
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    And yet, you're even less likely to pick a franchise QB (0%) in the first round, if you never pick one in the first round.
     
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  38. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I'm all in. I'd be willing to pay three #1s or one or two #1s and some combination of players. I'd like to keep Long, Marshall, Wake, Pouncey, Dansby and Soliai(if resigned). I'd do it even though I don't see Barkley, RGIII, Weedon and Tannehill as bad consolation prizes. I just think that getting Luck would energize the fan base so it would be a good business decision.

    I also don't agree with the idea that landing a franchise QB in the first is a 50/50 proposition. Many of the first round QB busts were obvious reaches (at least since I've been paying attention).
     
  39. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    7 first round picks.
     
  40. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's almost certainly too expensive at this point to be worth the risk.
     

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