Salguero: Ross will hire the new Head Coach..period

They're not "dismissed", they're just warily regarded as one year wonders at best. Matt Moore is not a franchise quarterback (and was something akin to the Plan Z at the position behind Carson Palmer, Kyle Orton, etc), and it's still questionable if Reggie Bush is anything more than a receiving back (racking up numbers against bad teams is not impressive in and of itself).

If Ireland wants the fans to know what he's done, then maybe he should have more than one press conference a year, and maybe he shouldn't dodge questions in that one press conference.

This is something of a false premise, as the Rooneys are indeed involved in running the Steelers. The organization offered the head coaching job to Ken Whisenhunt before the Rooneys overrode them and made the offer to Mike Tomlin, for instance.

 

One guy made the playoffs 10 times out of 15 years. The other guy made it 6 times out of 16.5 years.

What more do you want to know? Both guys had very talented defenses for most of their tenures along with good running games. Yet one guy clearly did more with similarly talented teams.

I don;t even know what you're arguing. That Fisher is a great coach? That cowher is overrated?

 

I thought it might be good to look at Cowher and Fisher in the time they were coaching in the same division, here are the results . . .

2001: Steelers 13-3 (1), Titans 7-9 (4)
2000: Titans 13-3 (1), Steelers 9-7 (3)
1999: Titans 13-3 (2), Steelers 6-10 (4)
1998: Oilers 8-8 (2), Steelers 7-9 (3)
1997: Steelers 11-5 (1), Oilers 8-8 (3)
1996: Steelers 10-6 (1), Oilers 8-8 (4)
1995: Steelers 11-5 (1), Oilers 7-9 (3)

As you can see, there is an ebb and flow, at the start when Fisher first took over, the Steelers were a Super Bowl team (literally) then the Titans became a Super Bowl team and the Steelers pulled back a bit. A blip in '01, but if they would have stayed in the division, then the trend would have continued of one better for a couple of years and then the other.

I'm not trying to say Fisher is a better coach than Cowher, because he isn't. However, I do think the gap is smaller than some think. I look no further than at the organizations. Look at the Steelers, I mean I'm pretty sure you could drop Cam Cameron in as head coach and you wouldn't see any erosion on the field for a couple of years (ala Caldwell in Indy). They are stable and can pick players better than anybody in this league outside of possibly Ozzie Newsome and the Ravens. So Cowher had that going for him. In Tennessee, the franchise did a good job of drafting and bringing in free agents until they mismanaged the salary cap and then they were never able to keep the same consistent, great talent after 04/05.

Look, I've tried to keep my thoughts out of this, it is a highly charged topic that inspired strong feelings on every side. However, I think with the added fact that Cowher has been out of the league for five years and whether he eventually comes back or not, has the feeling of somebody who just doesn't have the fire. That brings the two almost equal, and I will take the guy that we don't have to get down on all fours for.

 

Couldn't agree more about Ross. He wouldn't be the first to do it either. Rooney was instrumental in hiring Tomlin. Kraft pushed the hiring of Belichick, and so on. Conversely there are negative examples with that, such as Huizenga with zjohnson and Saban. However, if you buy something for 1.1B you have a say in who should run things.

In regards to Ireland, I just can't wrap my head around who did what. I mean we can all speculate based on history and past moves, rumors, etc. But who is really responsible?

What I know is he's responsible for Columbo, Bush, Moore, Burnett, Incognito, Will Allen, and the rest of his FA signing I'm forgetting along with his draft picks. Whether Tony was involved or not, his say was final. In that lot of 2011 offseason moves, he did ok.

 

If Cowher isn;t available then he isn't available.

I'm not pining away for him.

If we hire fisher then that's as good a choice as any and I'm fine with it. But I don;t see Cowher and Fisher as equivalent coaches. I think the record bears that out.

That's really all I was trying to say

 

The bolder statement could be one of the more incredulous statements I've read in a while. You're not going to play a great run defense every week. Conversely, great run defenses are great because they stop great running backs. LeSean McCoy had like 37 yards rushing against us. Does he still have something to prove, because he's racked up huge yards against everyone else?

Wow. I think you might be the last person left Reggie has to prove to that he's a very capable runner in the role he's in.

 

Ok dude. You said Fisher hasn't proven he can when with mediocre QB play. I showed you that you were wrong. I did that by pointing out Fishers QBR vs Cowher's. All you did was name names. When you look at it, you'll see that he went to the playoffs behind very solid QB years (other than 96, 97), which Fisher never got. However, he did prove capable of getting his team's to an AFC Championship game and Super Bowl with average QB play.

You turned it into a Cowher vs Fisher argument, which I said from the beginning wasn't my argument.

So again, if you'd like to continue furthering the idea that Fisher hasn't shown a capability to win with mediocre/below average QB play, you would be incorrect.

 

I think the biggest comedy of all is this total inability to blame Jeff Ireland for anything that went wrong prior to this off season.

 

I don't think anyone is absolving him of the past 4 years. I can't speak for anyone, but I'm not. I just can't directly day this is Ireland's fault, this is Ireland's achievement until this past offseason. I just choose to use what I know, rather than what I hear.

 

My point is that it's still nebulous whether or not Bush can be expected to do what he's done this season for the next, say, five seasons. Do you give him a big contract and pay him millions of dollars while expecting his future performance to match his, statistically speaking, fluky current performance?

I wouldn't.

 

I gotcha. I agree 100%.

 

Which is, hilarious. Jeff Ireland may not be good at putting together NFL rosters, but he's certainly proven masterful at keeping his job. He's taken advantage of a system that was set up with clear lack of accountability to make everything so opaque that nobody can blame him for anything and he gets to have people suggest on his behalf that whatever moves that look decent, were all him...while the others he says "It's not worth getting into..." with a clear implication that they weren't his fault and he's refusing to blame other people.

 

I would fire Jeff Ireland for that reason alone, really.

I mean clearly his personnel decisions have been AT BEST slightly above mediocre. You're not firing the next Ron Wolf, Bill Polian, Ozzie Newsome or Ted Thompson.

And even if I were to accept that his personnel decisions have been above mediocre (a supposition that makes me laugh heartily), I would be absolutely willing to fire an above-mediocre General Manager on the basis of non-transparency in his organizational structure.

Bottom line, as you reach out to guys like Jon Gruden, Bill Cowher, Jeff Fisher and Jim Harbaugh...and they say no to you because of Jeff Ireland...good luck running through all these message board debates and picking out points and logic to try and convince them "But, but, but...we don't KNOW that he was responsible for any of the bad moves we made prior to Parcells leaving!"

Yeah, I'm sure those guys are going to buy that one and be rearing to go with Miami.

 

HC shouldn't be as big of a debate as QB. Put it this way, if Miami had Peyton Manning Dave Wannstedt would still be coaching and everyone would think he's a genius. Peyton, plus 2000-2003 Phins=Super Bowl. Or if Miami chose Drew Brees...Nick Saban would not be known as Nick Satan or Dick Saban in Miami and would probably still be here.

A good HC is nice, but I'd take Peyton Manning, Luck, Barkley, RG3 with Todd Bowles if that was the option...rather than Jeff Fisher or something with some late 1st round QB.

But of course, having a top QB with a top coach would be perfect...but we haven't had that since the 90s, so I'm not expecting it.

 

If the Colts had Peyton Manning, Jim Mora would still be coaching. Err, wait...let me revise...

If the Chargers had Phil Rivers, Norv Turner wouldn't be on the hot seat. Damn. Wait, I gotta rephrase that again...

If only Jim Mora Jr had Michael Vick, he wouldn't have been fired by the Falcons. No, that's not right...

If Mike Sherman or Ray Rhodes had Brett Favre then there's no way they would have been fired by the Packers. No...

There's no way Dan Reeves or Wade Phillips would've been fired from Denver if John Elway played for them...

And for that matter if Hugh Campbell and Jerry Glanville had Warren Moon there's definitely no way they would have been fired by the Oilers...

And Marty Schottenheimer wouldn't have been fired from San Diego if he had guys like Drew Brees and Phil Rivers playing QB for him...

If Sam Wyche had Boomer Esiason at quarterback, he'd never been fired from Cincinnati...

Nor would Barry Switzer or Chan Gailey have been fired by Dallas if only they'd had Troy Aikman playing for them...

And of course Don Shula never would've been forced to step down if he had Dan Marino as his quarterback...

 

I don't see that as a bad thing. Sparano was 11-5 when he had a good QB. He then adjusted his philosophy and brought in an OC with a more QB friendly system. He was respected by his players and they played smart. If we get the right QB and the same from Fisher, I'll be thrilled. IMO the future of this team will primarily depend on the QB that is brought in. The next most important factors will be who the OC/DC are. If they are like Daboll and Nolan, I'll have no complaints. Those hires are mostly why I care who the HC will be.

 

WE CANT AFFORD TO BE TO PICKY no matter who we hire we still need a qb Sparano was clueless about grooming a qb Saban picked the wrong qb but it would be just our luck to have taken Brees and his shoulder got screwed up while Daunte would have recovered fully and made aremarkable recovery . its all tommato tommatoe there is no perfect coach so I am pulling for Cowher because we cant go by want Marino said or what Jimmy Johnson said. I want Cowher , fisher or Gruden but i would be open to anybody but the Tampa ay coach .

 

Taking advantage of the system? Ya. I can see that. Absolutely doing that with the fans, but those guys in the front office have a clear idea of who was responsible or not. It's much more clearer between those guys than it is with us.

For me, he's at fault for Marc Colombo. He's at fault for other moves that were made this offseason.

However, it's like back in the day during the school. Unless the person that made the mistake fesses up to the act, either the entire class is let off, or the entire class is punished. In this case, as of now, the idea is that they found the person whose fault it was (Tony's) and he was the person who felt the consequences.

I can't open bash a guy like Ireland unless I know full well what he was in charge of and what wasn't. Is he taking advantage of the system? I'm sure he is. However, is that his fault, or is the person who allowed that system to be put in place?

 

what Tampa coach?

 

I assume Raheem Morris, who many think will be fired.

 

REALLY???? Wow, some of you guys realy have no idea what you're talking about. You REALLY don't.

A QB is more important than a good head coach? REALLY???

How's that working out for Indianapolis this season, huh? Manning out for the season and their head coach JUST NOW found out a way to win ONE game...where Bill Cowher with medicore quarterbacks at the helm were perinnial playoff teams.

If you as a team put all your eggs in one basket, such as Indianpolis did, when you lose that basket, your team is exposed for what it is...WEAK!

Jim Harbaugh came into San Francisco...with the same pieces Mike Singletary had...with the same pieces Mike Nolan had and what's happening in the Bay area? That COACH has the team at 10-3, not the quarterback. Hell, if it was the quarterback, Alex Smith should have had the 49ers at 10-3 all by himself these past 4 years!

You get us a damn good coach in the off season...get us a Jim Harbaugh...a Bill Cowher...a Marty Schottenheimer...a Bill Belichik...a Don Shula and with the same pieces we have on the roster right now, we're going to the playoffs...vying for the division...vying for a first round bye, guaranteed!!

Football is a chess game between coaches with players executing the moves (plays) chosen by the coaches. I know of no team in which the quarterback is also the offensive coordinator.

 

Personally, I put all the picks, trades, and signings in the last 4 years on him. Doing that, I still come away liking what Ireland has done. He's had his misses, but we have talented players on our roster, IMO. I don't like his neglect on some positions like FS, thogh. Also, his attitude worries me because it seems he drives some coaches away.

However, I don't blame him for Pat White. I'm almost positive that was Parcells.

 

Do you realize the coaching under Cowher was phenomenal and the level of team-talent was virtually second to none?

IMO it's somewhat difficult to truly measure up the coaches when Fisher wasn't afforded the same luxuries.

 

Sorry maybe I did not articulate myself clearly enough. I meant that some owner intervention was good and some was not. Snyder meddles with his teams management and throws tons of money at bad choices that go against the advice of his front office. (Bad ownership)

Jones is probably 50/50 with his interference. He calls the shots when it comes to the big decisions and ignores his personnel's advice on more then one occasion. I will say so far since he has hired Garret he has been mellow. He is debatable on being a good owner speaking from the fans perspective.

The Rooney's as far as I am concerned are the best ownership in the NFL. They know what they want and things are handled as they see fit. Top to bottom that is a very well run organization and they get value for their dollars. They do not overspend and they get the most out the money they do spend. I did not mean to imply they were the hands off type of owners. I meant to say that when they interject and override nits typically a successful move that I can only assume was very well researched.

I hope Ross turns out to be the typer of owner cut from the same mold as the Rooney's, not the Snyder's of the NFL.

 

I think you're giving them a LOT more credit than they deserve here. This is not the sense I've been getting based on what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that it's nearly as opaque behind the scenes as out in the public sphere, and I've also heard that Miami's not the only team that is that way, with the lack of accountability/grading.

 

Ross should hire the new coach as well as the Gm, Mike Dee is a ? (Ross hired him), shape up the office and executives

 

Thanks Padre

 

Mike Dee is a promoter nothing more.

I don't see any way Cowher or Gruden come here and I am not sure you will see either of them ever coach again. They both make big money as part time analysts and have none of the stress. I don't see either as particularly hungry and I want a coach who is hungry. Really, what do they have to prove at this point, they both have rings. Coming back to coach another team could potentially only damage their "legacy".

If I were them I would stay right where I was.

 

Look, Ross has done' some stupid things as an NFL owner, but he is a shrewd businessman. Do you think that Ireland will omit someone he perceives as a threat to his job and not put that guy on the list and think that Ross won't know it ?? Heck, Cowher is the top of the list, IMHO, and he's certainly a threat to Ireland. Is that name NOT going to be on the list ?? I don't think so... Ross will use the list as a guide, but he's certainly not going to bind himself to just the names on the list... I think to believe that Ross will use ONLY the names on a list is crazy...


And let's all keep in mind this story was written by Mando... I wouldn't take it for gospel by any stretch of the imagination...

 

Breaking news, leaked Ireland's list:

Spoiler

1. Dan Henning 2. Randy Shannon 3. Bozo The Clown 4. Tony Soprano 5. Tony Sparano Jr

 

Noll drafted Bradshaw in his 2nd season as an NFL head coach. The Steelers team he took over was pretty bad and went 1-13 in his first season. There wasn't much of a body of work to compare to in the pre-Bradshaw years.

 

I doubt Raheem Morris will be under consideration for our head coaching job.