Is There Anything Matt Moore Can Do to Change Your Draft Plans?

Which is sort of the point, I'm not a buyer of "it's a passing league", however we have not seen him throw the ball over 40 times in a game as of yet, he is more an efficient Qb atm.

If he did have 40-50 attempts, how will he do? Can you see him succeeding or failing in that situation?

Honestly I can't say, would like to see it though, because sometimes imo, people have the impression that all he amounts to is a game manager, I disagree with that notion but have no evidence to counter it.

 

Griese was more accurate, MMoore is below that level of accuracy, people may not realize how accurate Bob Griese was, as in he was typically on par with Pennington but with deeper pass attempts.

Now to be fair to Moore, those two have down all time things in the NFL, MMoore doesn't have 25 starts.

 

Not only that, but you have to figure there might be teams below us that see value up top that would trade up as well. Too early to be worrying about this level of crap-shoot. I'd guess we'll have to move up either way, the question is how much will we have to give up?

 

I can't find anyplace that has Anderson's passing splits when blitzed and under pressure for 2007 but I remember that I looked at those stats after that season and concluded that he was not likely to continue to develop into an elite QB. IIRC his stats in those categories were better than what Moore has now. I know people will see what they want to see and that they want Moore and the Dolphins to succeed. I also know that you can find stats to prove just about anything. But I have used the under pressure and blitz stats as a predictor of whether a QB will eventually become an elite QB and it's better than most. You still have to use your eyes and do some real evaluation, but it's a good starting point. I remember arguing that Brady was going to be special back in early 2002 (when nobody was putting him in that category yet) based on his ability to bail his team out. I have no problem making that early call on a QB when I see elite potential and it would sure be good for Miami if Moore displayed that. But he hasn't.

 

Anderson's problem was, and remains, he is wildly inaccurate, as in low 50% completions.

And once again, comparisons between players, though you did not do so, are meaningless as each player is unique in one way or another.

As for pressure stats, the offense will set a franchise record mark for sacks allowed, Moore is still performing well, to me that is kinda the end of that one from my pov.

No Qb will be elite in that situation aside from Peyton Manning, and even then, it broke him down.

 

I have to admit Moore would only be better if he had better pass protection...

 

Anderson put up 29-19 for cleveland, completed nearly 57% and half his games had a passer rating over 80, including 4 over 100.

He started all 16 games and eld Cleveland to a 10-6 record, just missing the playoffs.

If you extrapolate Moore's numbers over 16 games he'd likely be right around Anderson's numbers. Cleveland decided he was a franchise qB and gave him the tag, paying him $15 million in 2008. Bad decision.

 

So you are saying Matt Moore has shown you as much as Peyton Manning did and Tom Brday did in their 3rd years? I ghet your point if that is what you are saying, I say that is seeing what you want to see, I see none of that. I see Tom Brady in his 2nd or 3rd year coming unexpectedly off the bench on a team that had barely won a game and looked like a disaster and win a super bowl and yes he made plays in close games that helped them win. No he didnt carry them the way he does now, but he played clutch when needed, pretty special to be a practice squad player to super bowl champion in 2 years. Moore vs a good eagles team wasnt not playing well before he got hurt. Vs Dallas, he was avg to below, made a couple nice plays but didnt rise the team from the ashes and didnt pick the O up when needed consistently. The teams he beat are not great defenses.

Cant afford to lose out again. if you keep repeating teh past expecting diff results then you are a fool. We have an oppportunity to get a potential star with a higher ceiling than anyone else we have had since marino, Moore IMO has not shown those flashes of greatness. As Raf said, a decent qb isnt going to look great when in prime situations, but how do they look when the offense is not firing on all cylinders? Moore has not shown he will produce. You forego teh draft you are banking that he will yet he never has and he has a body of evidence to teh contrary.

Passing on a qb is drafting in fear. You have to do due diligence and then go after your target and go all in

 

Heh, forgot about that.

Didn't Moore replace Anderson at Ore St.?

 

Here is the difference:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AndeDe00.htm

Anderson's accuracy never topped 60%, after his great 07, it dropped down to the low 50's, basically Tebow/Quinn country.

Anderson also was sacked 14 times in 07, 14...


MMoore:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoorMa01.htm

Is at 59.1% for his career, that is the most accurate yardstick for a Qb, believe it or not, it is very very predictive.

 

Travis Lulay ring any bells?

 

What reads does it require? Daboll employs more an arguably better route combinations than Henning did, but what is the evidence this is particularly effective? The guy who, by far and away would be most likely to benefit from better route combinations would be Davone Bess, and he's having an awful year by his standards, after Daboll moved him to be nearly exclusively a slot guy to take advantage of the attention Marshall receives, especially now that he's being involved more in deeper passes.

It's not. It's Nate Jackson, a Wide Receiver turned Tight End who played on four different professional teams and now is a sports writer.

I was waiting for that one.

And meanwhile, the statistics you quoted are compiled where, and how is that different from PFF?

 

I don't think there's really any issue with scaling it up and calling more passes. We did it repeatedly with Henne with no real changes, I don't think someone more adept at avoiding turnovers is going to have a problem.

 

No, not really, but they weren't close to elite in terms of their performances. They looked promising for early in their career, but how is that any different from Matt Moore who just started what would be condensed into his second season as an NFL starter when he started performing well?

How is this at all the same situation as in the past?

How has Moore not shown he's produced? What exactly is the difference between what Moore is doing and Matt Ryan is doing?

 

Still have to know though, for example maybe Defenses respect our run so much if it is taken away and it's just MMoore slinging the ball, how will he do?

Let me add that is not a detraction from MMoore the Qb prospect, even Pennington was less effective once he topped 35 attempts so you have to know before really making a decision imo, or to do a proper Evaluation.

 

I suspect this is where the pressure issues come into play maynard, where Colombo/Carey/Long's struggles come into play.

 

Just get it done , move to BC Pads !

 

Do you have any backup for this? Can you show Brady's stats from 2002? What about early Rodgers? Manning? etc Can you show some guys that are average or above average without pressure then fall off tremendously with pressure to compare to Moore?

I would love to see some history with this and it's accuracy in predicting elite QBs. Would also love to know who you consider elite.

Thanks!

 

I feel like Moore has to have a good showing in the final two games to consider moving forward with him and let him "play" for that next contract in 2012. However if Barkley or Griffin fell to us, wherever we may draft at, I certainly would not pass on selecting one of them.

 

If Moore has a good showing in the next 2 games (let's say at least 1 win, no blowouts, and around 5 TDs and 1 INT or maybe 2 INTs, a 2:1 ratio at the very least) it might sway me from trading up for a QB. It wouldn't stop me drafting Luck, Barkley, or RG3 if they came to me, but I might not trade up for them. I may also consider sliding down (if an offer blows me away) and wind up taking Tannehill (note: I'm not opposed to taking him without a trade down). He wouldn't have to play right away if Moore is playing well, and you could focus on developing the mental part of his game further (he has the physical).

If the top 3 QBs were off the board by our pick (say pick 8?), with Moore playing well, I might consider taking Blackmon (likely not there), Floyd, or a pass rusher (Coples or Upshaw?).

 

Not the 1st time (even for QBs) that a guy left for dead was able to save his career somewhere else. It is indeed something crazy (and fun IMO) to see though.

 

Dan Henning might even consider coming out of retirement to have a chance to coach a guy with the same mentality.[/QUOTE] You bite yoour tounge young man we dont need that kind of talk . so go to your room and think about what you just said. thats messed up

 

Honestly its this kind of thinking that has us sitting here as an average football team again. Matt Moore is an excellent backup and even a competent starter. If we draft a QB and they aren't ready to start right away I am very comfortable with Moore playing. However, he is not going to lead the team to the playoffs. Hes played well against so-so competition. He is a guy who would consistently lead us to 7-9 to 9-7 years. Not a guy who could put us over the top. He is for lack of a better comparison, Jay Fiedler.

 

Well, its in Moore's history, he did really well, than had injuries and faltered in Carolina. The fitz comparison isn't that far off. Will it happen again? Who know's.

 

and we shouldn't change everything to be a passing team, until we find our own Brees, Brady or Rodgers..doing so because thats what the perception of the league is turning into is not How I build a teams offensive identity...Those QB's that I mentioned as we know are not easy to find, and until then, I build my team with balance with defense emphasized.

 

Team got bad around him NJ, 2 concussions and a torn labrum in 4 starts should be a strong indicator of what happened.

 

Not the same thing Deej, until MMoore does sling it around that often, we cannot know about MM's strengths and weaknesses until we see it.

 

Matt Moore has been solid but he has not good enough to be a franchise QB.
We must do whatever it takes to draft a top QB.

 

What?, I'am pretty damn confident that Matt is not in that league, and does not have the skillset that garners catering the offense around that skillset to the degree that I'am talking about..

With Moore you build the team like I'am talking about..balance and elite defense, until you find your elite guy, then you go loco on the pass.

 

Jay Fiedler hasn't performed like Matt Moore has for any period of time. 2 of Moore's 3 years where he got a significant number of starts were quite good, and much better than "competent starter".

 

You or I can think feel, believe whatever we will Deej, until he has the opportunity we cannot say.

For example the falcons went into 2011 THINKING Ryan was ready to do exactly that, the experiment failed, meaning the ransom for Julio Jones was not really worth it at this point in time, this is what happens when assumptions are made rather then opportunities for observation of performance.

Otherwise you put those pieces around MMoore, go down 18 pts, then watch when he is not the Qb you thought he was when you built things.

 

It's easy to say we should draft a 1st round QB no matter what. Not so easy to do. Of course if the opportunity presents itself, you draft a QB. My opinion hasn't changed. But that's easy talk when we're in the first 5 picks. No we're not. And it isn't so easy.

Andrew Luck as good of a prospect as he is, hasn't played an NFL down yet. And we have no chance for him. Not right now at least. Until they play the game, we can all say "100% sure thing" until we're blue in the face doesn't make it true. He could be the best prospect in the world suffer a career ending injury his first game in. Who knows.

If the prospect we like is there for our taking, then grab him. If not, then don't. Don't strike just to strike.

 

That completely ignores the fact that QBs play a factor in sacks. We didn't have great lines all the years Marino was here and the sacks were always low. NE's lines have been atrocious several of Brady's years. The elite QBs cover up those kinds of deficiencies. In fact, some coaches place more than 50% of the blame for sacks on the QB. I think that's too simplistic, but the point is that saying that b/c the team has many sacks is the end is the equivalent of putting your head in the sand.

 

That is trying to have it both ways, if Brady was good when the line was bad, why wasn't brady "covering up their weakness"?

IE if Brady was actually doing it with bad lines, then the line wasn't bad.

We've both watched most of this season, you tell me, is this Dolphins line good in your opinion?

And let me add, once again when Brady had the number of starts Moore has had he'd been sacked a pro rated 61 times in 25 starts on a much better team overall.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm

Truth be known, MMoore's performance this yr is not far off from Brady's in 01.

 

Daboll uses a lot of two man route combinations that read off of one defender. Then he adds in constraint plays off of those. That makes it a QB friendly system. That has no bearing on which receiver will benefit. The fact that you think so makes me thin that you don't understand what makes a QB friendly system.

The stats were compiled by Sports Illustrated. I would say the main difference is that they don't attempt a second layer of subjectivity by trying to guess who was at fault.

 

Of course the line isn't good. If MM was elite he would still produce better than he has. That seems to be what you're missing with the Brady comparison. You'd still see those lines miss blocks, but Brady would step back and make the stick throw anyways. Therefore the line was bad and Brady produced.