http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports...ins&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter Sounds about right, when you miss on a Qb with a high pick, it really screws the franchise for yrs.
Some never display the talent that Henne displayed. Can you really blame the team for thinking that Henne could be the answer after what he did in 2009?
I must be completely naive because I don't understand why teams hitch their wagon to only 1 horse. And if that horse doesn't work then let's do it again and wait 4 more years. If QB's are the most important position in football why don't teams draft multiple QB's? Phillip Rivers set behind Breese for 2 years I believe before taking over. I would love to have option here in Miami. And by that I mean have 2 quality QB's. QB's seem to hold their value to a large degree even if they sit, because everyone needs that possible franchise QB. I must be missing something obvious. Apologies.
Brees deal was somewhat unique because Rivers held out, and when he came into camp he was to far behind so Brees won the job by default. Do agree somewhat mb, it is also one of the reasons why a minor league football league would make so much sense for the NFL.
Eh...Henne will never be confused with Aaron Rogers. But, in the right system, he will excel. Im wagering he still lights it up at some point....
I think not only does it typically cost a good bit to get a QB who can be developed into something worthwhile, but it also takes a large investment of time and resources to develop that QB (you have to surround them with adequate talent, get the practice reps, chemistry with teammates, in game experience, one on one time with coaches, etc). You also have to have all the other players on the team (and coaches) believe in the guy at QB. Having all these things line up for multiple individuals at essentially the same time just isn't recipe for success outside of a vacuum IMO. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I don't believe it could be done successfully in most places. Also, for as good as Rivers is, the Chargers still wound up picking the worse of the 2 QBs to hitch their wagon to ultimately. Edit: Heck, it could probably be argued the guy the Falcons ended up trading would have been a better option than the starter the Falcons had at the time or the one they have now.
Well, in the poll thread, 65% want to move on, 35% are mixed on him, so from a fan pov he is not the most popular guy in Miami, but when a player is really hated that would run 90% or higher, if such a poll were put up pertaining to Marc Colombo. I've said he reminds me of Jim Kelly on his upside, or at least Kerry Collins, especially Collins a guy who bounces around, does have some success but no franchise ever really buys all the way into him, he took the GMen to the SB then was outta there as a FA 3 seasons later.
That drive didn't make or break Henne. He had a big drop from Bess that hurt him in that series downs anyway IIRC. His fate was sealed long before then. He was a 2nd Round pick who was handled horribly by Sparano and Henning. I agree with the fair or not part though. Either way, he's seen his last days as a Dolphin.
I think you make some fairly good points. You would have to draft 2 QB's that were similar in style and abilitie ( you couldn't run the same system and thus personnel for a running QB that you would for a traditional pocket passer ). As for the rest of the argument I am a little doubtful. But still I think you make some good points. Thank you.
I think it did, simply because it was the same Henne from 2010 in that game, this after all of the prep work of the offseason being directed at his improvement and it was the same guy... Put it this way, hypothetically speaking, if MMoore had the ball on the Browns 47 yd line, do you think he picks up the 12 yds or so?
Here is the list of QBs that Miami would have had a chance of drafting since Henne was drafted. Who did Ireland/Sparano regime miss out on? Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, Ryan Mallett, Ricky Stanzi, T.J Yates, Nathan Enderle, Tyrod Taylor, Greg McElroy, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen, Colt McCoy, Mike Kafka, John Skelton, Jonathan Crompton, Rusty Smith, Dan LeFevour, Joe Webb, Tony Pike, Levi Brown, Sean Canfield, Zac Robinson, Pat White, Stephen McGee, Rhett Bomar, Nate Davis, Tom Brandstater, Mike Teel, Keith Null, Curtis Painter, Kevin O'Connell, John David Booty, Dennis Dixon, Josh Johnson, Erik Ainge, Colt Brennan, Andre Woodson, Matt Flynn, Alex Brink... So who would have developed in Miami? Flynn...would he have succeeded being thrown in right away? Can be had as an UFA after being developed by a franchise that knows how to develop QBs after this season so can't really say this set Miami back. Tebow...an argument can be made, but how many really thought Miami should have spent the #12 pick in the draft on him rather than trade down and get Odrick and Misi? No one other than die hard Dolphin-Christian fans or probably should say overzealous Christian-Dolphin fans. Kaepernick and Dalton perhaps. Those are this year's draft most likely options. Kap didn't look the part in pre season. Dalton looks the part, but he would be playing behind an OL that his career in Miami may have looked similar to David Carr with the Texans. And Marshall this year is no where close to being AJ Green. I think a more "REALITY" based perspective is Miami has NOT developed an offense around a QB that would have allowed any QB to be developed properly. Every year the OL is a revolving door and we still have one of the worst WR groups in the NFL. Get those two units fixed and then there is a possibility of developing a QB in Miami.
The article should read: Waiting on the OL caused Henne to fail.... I think laying the franchise woes on Henne is hogwash when you look at how poorly this OL has played. The heart of the offensive team is the OL and it's never looked consistent enough, until the last several games...If this OL put together 16 games like the last 6 or 7, we're all talking differently about Sparano, Henne, Marshall, Fasano, etc... The failure of this regime has been the inability to put together an OL to hold the offense together while [insert QB's name here, it happened to be Henne this last 3 yrs] developed. I think the article is way, way off base...
I can't find video of it. It was on 1st down, would've been a 6 or 7 yard (or more) completion if Bess catches it.
Moore hasn't really done anything in crunch time this season. He couldn't finish off the Cowboys or Giants when given multiple chances. I have no reason to believe he'd do it against the Browns, but maybe he does. We'll never know but it doesn't really matter anyway.
Difference being, Moore's curve then went upwards, Henne's went downwards from his first three starts As for where Henne could succeed, an offense that is run heavy and needs an efficient Qb to caretake the offense. -NYJ -Seattle -SD -KC Spring to mind, it would help him tremendously if there is a good Qb Coach on staff, Daboll's work polished off some of his roughness technically speaking, but there are still things he can improve on technically speaking.
Just watched it the last drive (and 3rd down from the series prior), and it looked like Bess might've been able to catch the 1st down pass on the 2nd series but the DB did make a good play (can't tell if he touched it or just distracted). Bess had it bounce off his pads by the look of it. On 3rd down Henne put it low and behind Bess (I think he got his hands on it) as he was getting pressure from Columbo's side (surprise!). Neither was a "drop."
No his curve didn't go downward. It didn't go anywhere, he got hurt. It flatlined. And while Moore's curve went upward it doesn't mean that he'd have got 12 yards in Cleveland which was your original question anyway.
Once again I don't agree, if you recall the Giants game, the OL fell apart when Pouncey left the game, vs Dallas they pretty much took the ball out of his hands. That smacked of Sparano BTW, 2 bush runs up the gut, then a half assed rollout run/pass option.
That's possible. Pro Football Focus did not record a drop for Davone Bess in that game. In fact, they didn't record a drop for any of Miami's receivers in that game. But maybe they missed one. Still, I do not recall a drop happening on THAT drive. I recall three uncatchable passes and an interception. I have reviewed the plays. 1st & 10 - Shotgun, versus a zero cover, all out blitz look. Henne throws left to Davone Bess who is covered well by Dmitri Patterson. Patterson sticks his hand in and swats the ball away from Bess' bread basket. This could be what some people are mistakenly remembering for a "drop". Not a bad throw but it was good coverage and a higher ball placement against the tight man coverage would have probably been more appropriate than groin-level ball placement. 2nd & 10 - Shotgun, versus an initial cover two man look that the Browns betray as a cover one before the snap. Henne has rookie Clyde Gates matched on rookie Buster Skrine deep down the left sideline, but Skrine wins the coverage and squeezes Gates to the sideline. Good throw, but I'm not sure why you go for everything like this to a totally unproven rookie when you only need 15 yards to kick a field goal and win the game. 3rd & 10 - Shotgun, versus a cover one look. Henne throws about 8 yards on a short out from the left slot to Davone Bess. This could also be what people are remembering as a "bad drop". The reason PFF did not record it as a drop is because Henne threw it way behind Bess and low. That's not really a drop, it's a bad throw, the pass was off the mark and the game announcer said so. 4th & 10 - Shotgun, versus what initially looks like another cover one but I think was a disguised cover two man. Henne throws extremely high and uncatchable to Brandon Marshall in traffic, intercepted by Mike Adams.
His curve flatlined due to injury, what about 2010? Did it not count? He started out great in 09, flat lined in 2010, showed a bit more in 2011, but still not a whole lot Stitches, ie, 12 yds in Cleveland in 2011, in 2010, pass tipped int down to 3 to lose to the Browns and kill our playoff chances.
That's how I saw it, but I'm pretty sure that Patterson got his hand on that first ball, his hand was right in Bess' lap which was where the ball was coming in. Henne's thrown that exact pass to Bess before with that exact man coverage, and Chad's thrown the ball high so that Bess can go up for it. I'm not sure why he didn't do that this time.
Where did I say 2010 didn't count? You asked a specific question about a very specific moment from a specific game. That is all I commented on.
Interesting game to use as an example why Henne set the franchise back... Heading into final drive Henne was 19 of 25, 255 yards, 1 TD, 0 int...QB Rating of 121.25 Henne rushed 4 times for 26 yards...6.5 ypc. Rest of team 34 carries for 112 yards...3.29 ypc. OL played poorly. Henne was sacked 5 times and hit 8 times. Reggie Bush fumbled a ball in red zone resulting in turnover. Carpenter missed a FG. Bess had a 1st down (on 1st drive I believe) and ran backwards resulting in a 4th and 1 and punt...same as a turnover. What I recall from the last drive was how unimpressive the play calling was. How our WRs couldn't get separation...Bess on 1st, Gates on 2nd. Henne made one "bad" throw in the drive that could have been still caught. All 3 of Miami's wideouts were blanketed on 4th down so I have no problem with the interception. At least he took a shot. Marshall looked like he does on many plays when the game is on the line, underwhelming by not even making an attempt. Reality is Henne was by far the best player on the field that day in a Dolphin uniform. Had the offense around him played well that day it would have been a 20-30 point blowout. Having said all that, I do think the 2:00 drive was the one area this year where Henne and the Dolphins are still in need of a big improvement. Moore certainly hasn't shown the problem was only at QB.
So what you're saying is Henne's O-Line was always good and they never took the ball out of his hands?
Wow, did that bring back some memories, he said something odd at the time he was drafted something like "for as long as I'm there" Which I thought was extremely odd for a just drafted Qb to say.
Nope, keep in mind this is a crappy OL that is also quite durable pieces of crap, once Pouncey went out the bottom fell out of it. My point is Henne and Moore played behind the same OL, the results are quite different. MMoore is still being pummeled, same as Henne was being, but MMoore is producing more then Henne did. As I've said, I really respect Henne's toughness, dude was being lined up like a scrub WWE wrestler for various finishing moves game after game this yr.
