1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Guys, there is some hope for Andrew Luck..

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Dec 19, 2011.

  1. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Were you with Custer at the Little Bighorn in a previous life DJ? ;)
     
    alen1 likes this.
  2. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If the Rams draft Luck and try to trade Bradford, he is worth a lot more than a 2nd IMO. His two lackluster seasons so far notwithstanding, other than Luck, there is no QB in this draft worth more than Bradford IMO. If I were picking say tenth overall and needed a QB, I'd trade the 10th pick in this draft straight up for Bradford.
     
    Sethdaddy8 likes this.
  3. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    85,620
    51,681
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    No way... Pats have the Brady heir apparent already.
     
  4. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    85,620
    51,681
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    I'm not sure that Bradford can be traded considering the monstrous rookie contract he still is under. He was the #1 overall...
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I don't think it's realistic to trade Bradford. The Rams would trade the Luck pick. I don't even think they'll play coy about it. They'll announce right off that they plan on selling the pick to the highest bidder, and they'll allow the market to set the price. Thing is, there's a possibility that Cleveland will shy away from giving the farm for him as long as RG3 is available, and there's a chance Washington will shy away from betting the farm on him as long as Ryan Tannehill is available.
     
    GARDENHEAD likes this.
  6. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

    13,006
    6,368
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    NJ
    as of right now, who has the #1 pick? Still Colts, or does it swing to Rams.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,650
    67,542
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    right now the colts do..
     
  8. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    85,620
    51,681
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Unless the Colts beat Jacksonville next week, they will maintain the #1 overall. St Louis and Minnesota are pretty far back in SOS% and are not likely to make up ground. It's not impossible... but it's highly unlikely... Edit: yes it is statistically impossible...
     
  9. Itsdahumidity

    Itsdahumidity X gonna take it from ya

    2,073
    1,194
    113
    Dec 10, 2007
    If either MIN or STL lose this SAT it's gonna be hollywood-like drama for the IND/JAX game next week. Does Jax want to see Luck in their division for 15 years or do they lay down?
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,650
    67,542
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    right over my head????
     
  11. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,681
    10,413
    113
    May 7, 2008
    New Orleans
    This just gave me a boner. Thanks CK!
     
  12. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    17,358
    9,641
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Northwest New Jersey
    I forget who said it on espn, but they said Bradford's contract was front loaded and get got paid a good bulk of his money already, so trading him is a possibility according to them.

    Again, its just what I heard, so I'm not sure its correct.
     
  13. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    85,620
    51,681
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    According to Rotoworld, Bradford's contract...

    This doesn't include the 2010 base numbers. We don't know how the guaranteed money breaks out specifically, but we can use an average method for purposes of discussion and say that the $18m signing bonus split over six years is $3m per season. If you trade Bradford at the draft in 2012, you're looking at the unamortized portion of that amount to be 4 X $3m... or $12m... that would be the cap hit, potentially. And that's a pretty large number but it's not prohibitive. The bigger question is that guaranteed number and how that is broken down. You're looking at another $32m somewhere. According to roto here the base salaries are guaranteed along with a first year $2.8m bonus. So the question is, are those remaining base years counted against the cap if he is traded since they are guaranteed?
     
    NJFINSFAN1 likes this.
  14. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

    13,006
    6,368
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    NJ
    HAHAHA incentives on Super Bowl and play off appearances.

    shoulda got incentives based on actual wins.
     
  15. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    85,620
    51,681
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Realize I'm answering my own question... IMO, those base years would need to be accelerated since they are guaranteed. So you're looking at another $9.5m or so in cap hit. That's $21.5m total. Think we're getting into that prohibitive number.
     
    Mile High Fin likes this.
  16. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

    17,358
    9,641
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Northwest New Jersey
    I believe they said a big chunk of the guaranteed money was payed already. But I could be mistaken.
     
  17. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    85,620
    51,681
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Then it would depend on how that was defined. Was it a bonus or was it part of his 2010 salary? Which would be sneaky since 2010 was uncapped.
     
  18. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    85,620
    51,681
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    This is a good little article from the Rams fan site I guess:

    http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2011/10/12/2486074/st-louis-rams-salary-cap-nfl-trade-deadline

    The quotes are from Rams' VP and COO Kevin Demoff.

    According to Demoff, the Rams expect to have about $10 million in cap space for 2012, assuming a relatively flat cap and players returning on their current contracts as well as signing draft picks. It's also worth pointing out that most of the Rams' free agent additions this year are playing under one-year contracts. Demoff noted that it's too soon to start thinking about re-signing those players.

    After reading this and trying to figure out exactly where all the money is, roster bonus vs signing bonus, the conclusion is that the Rams would have a very hard time trading Bradford and fitting the impact of that under their cap. Also, the team that is taking on Bradford would likely want to restructure the contract, as I expect some roster bonuses to be excessive. The easier thing to do would be to trade the pick for a cache of weapons that you can use to support the team and Bradford himself.
     
    ssmiami likes this.
  19. PhinPhanatic

    PhinPhanatic New Member

    466
    66
    0
    Feb 22, 2011
    Rochester, NY
    Just saw NFL live and the most likely to get the pick.......STL and they really cant trade Bradford. Would anyone criticize this from office for finally going for broke and giving whatever for Luck? Know I wouldnt
     
  20. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

    85,620
    51,681
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Nor would I... unless it failed and then I would point fingers at everyone... :shifty:
     
    ckparrothead likes this.
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Paid already doesn't mean expensed already. That's the problem. The money could be paid but still be amortized to future years and that's what accelerates if he gets traded. It would be a huge charge against the salary cap, I think.
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    LOL if it fails, I give up.
     
    Paul 13 likes this.
  23. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Just a reference to your undying eternal optimism my friend. Right before the outset of the battle, looking down toward the largest encampment of Indians that any of them had ever seen, one of the last survivors to see him alive reported Custer said: "Hurrah boys, we've got them! We'll finish them up and then go home to our station."
    You gotta be an pretty big optimist to feel so sure in the face of such overwhelming odds. :up:
     
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,650
    67,542
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Mr C..Our odds are a lot better than they were, i think the optimism is justifiable if the rams or vikes get the pick because of their own QB situation, the momentum and energy that the colts are playing with, the suckitude for which Gabbert is playing with, and the fact that I have never seen a franchise invest so heavy on the QB position one year, than the very next, do it again..

    I also believe Andrew Luck is so unique as a player, he's gonna make people do things that go against everything we've known to be protocol..Hopefully that includes the offer we put on the table.

    I'am no blind optimist my brother, {I know your not insinuating that} This optimist will put his record up against anyone on player evaluation.
     
  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    It's gonna take a lot more than just the Rams getting the 1st pick overall. There will be several other teams trying to trade up, and don't the Browns have two 1st rounders this season to include as part of an offer? IMO, there will be 2-3 teams in a position to make a more enticing offer for the 1st overall pick than we will be able to do.
     
  26. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    10,265
    7,907
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Coconut Grove
    Our only possible hope is if Luck wants to come here and lets other teams know he'll only sign with us. Not likely.
     
  27. Shoes

    Shoes Junior Member

    374
    204
    43
    Dec 20, 2007
    It's all about winning Super Bowls. Look at this list and how many are not just elite but HOFers or future HOFers.

    Aaron Rodgers
    Drew Brees
    Ben Roethlisberger
    Eli Manning
    Peyton Manning
    Ben Roethlisberger
    Tom Brady
    Tom Brady
    Brad Johnson
    Tom Brady
    Trent Dilfer
    Kurt Warner
    John Elway
    John Elway
    Brett Favre
    Troy Aikman
    Steve Young
    Troy Aikman
    Troy Aikman
     
    finfansince72 likes this.
  28. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii

    I agree, it basically takes a franchise type QB to win the Super Bowl. Other than Dilfer, and Johnson, who happen to play on teams with dominant defenses, every other team who has won a Super Bowl over the last 19 years have all had great QB's. I could care less if the Dolphins have to trade their first and second round picks for the next three years to obtain the opportunity to pick Luck in the upcoming draft. They should do it.

    The QB is the most important position on a football team. Luck may be the best QB to to enter the draft since Peyton Manning. If you look at the first and second round draft picks the Dolphins have made over the last three years, I would trade every one of these players for Luck, any day of the week.
     
    Aquafin likes this.
  29. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,843
    10,283
    113
    Dec 18, 2007
    Columbia, South Carolina
    Thank You. This same nonsense argument comes up every damn year on this board, "we can win with Fiedler managing the game", "all we need is Lucas to not turn the ball over..." "with a strong running game and oline, great defense our Qb doesn't have to be elite", etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. I'm not sure how anyone can be a Phins fan and honestly still be preaching about game managers and mediocre Qbs. We don't have an elite Qb, we need one, you do what you need to do to get one. We keep settling for mediocre Qbs and investing YEARS hoping we can turn them into great Qbs or put a great team around them. I hope the next coach we get has enough sense to realize that the QB comes FIRST not last and is the most important position. The list of Superbowl winners illustrates the point so plainly that arguing against it is just about insane. A guy like Moore or Henne is fine to hold down the position while a young guy is being groomed but you don't build around them and invest years trying to win with the handicap of having a game manager when other teams have elite Qbs.
     
    Aquafin, Silverphin and texanphinatic like this.
  30. electrolyte

    electrolyte New Member

    1,209
    553
    0
    Oct 27, 2009
    0% chance for Andrew Luck.

    0%.

    Dolphins will make a play for RG3. 40% chance on that one.
     
    gunn34 likes this.
  31. electrolyte

    electrolyte New Member

    1,209
    553
    0
    Oct 27, 2009
    The 2000 Ravens and 2002 Bucs (I think it was 2002?) were not just dominant defenses.... they were two of the greatest defenses in the history of pro football.

    Miami wasted the Marino years. If we ever happened to build him a competent defense........we would have won a few. Olivadotti is still banned from Miami.
     
  32. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

    19,406
    10,985
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    Rehoboth Beach
    Mike Ditka would think so.
     
  33. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

    11,035
    4,419
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Thank you.

    Honestly, when have cheaping out on the QB position EVER worked for us?
     
  34. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    53,148
    31,935
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    1983? :confused2:
     
  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    How many SB wins did that equal again?
     
  36. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

    53,148
    31,935
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Katy, TX
    0. :lol:
     
    Fin D likes this.
  37. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

    11,035
    4,419
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    I guess I should rephrase myself.

    When has taking a QB outside of the first round ever worked for us?
     
    Stitches likes this.
  38. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

    4,736
    304
    0
    Jun 16, 2011
    the poor house
    we also dont have a Irving Fryar , Jim Jensen, and the Marks brothers and a keith Jackson and a Dan Marino either.
     
  39. electrolyte

    electrolyte New Member

    1,209
    553
    0
    Oct 27, 2009
    and the 1983 draft was probably the greatest QB draft in history. that + marino's alleged cocaine use is the only reason we got to snag him so late in the 1st round.

    so unless you guys want to wait around for those conditions to happen again........
     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,650
    67,542
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    Jags lost...they should be nice and ripe for the pickin....
     

Share This Page