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Not so sure we shouldn't just keep Bowles, Daboll, Nolan

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by SCall13, Jan 4, 2012.

  1. SCall13

    SCall13 ThePhins QB

    Why not. Bowles, although only a few games, did a seemingly very good job with this team. Our offense under Daboll has been way less predictable, albeit inconsistent (but consistency comes with time). Is our new head coach already with us? Why not? Our defense is pretty solid. Our offense was in a new system, and should only get better with another year under its belt - regardless of who the QB will be. We need to add some play makers and (broken record) solidify the o-line. But I don't see why we can't succeed with Bowles, Daboll, and Nolan. Granted, if we could get Gruden (or someone with his track record) I'd be okay with it. But I see no reason to hire someone outside of the organization just for the sake of hiring a new name. Fisher isn't going to coach Miami. And I will be very happy if he doesn't (I'm just not impressed). Their are few names I'd take out there. But, outside of Gruden and Cowher, who else is a big name? Sure there are some big name college coaches. But we've seen plenty of examples of how that's turned out. I'm not so sure I wouldn't give it Bowles. Soft spoken but well respected guy. And of all the coordinator names floating out there, why not him? Bowles has been with the team. He know's the pulse of the team. He's a smart enough guy to know where our weaknesses are. And he's also a guy who isn't going to be all conservative offensively just because his specialty is defense.

    Don't get me wrong: a few games proves little. But who do we truly have a SHOT at that is going to be better?
     
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  2. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If that's what we wanted why fire sparano?

    We likely would've finished the same 6-10, regardless.

    So if we were looking for consistency, why get rid of the guy?

    The reason is that our results weren't good enough and we don't need more of the same. We need some fresh eyes on this product.
     
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  3. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    a new coach is going to bring in his own guys who share his philosophy. Pretty much as easy and simple as that. Nolan has done a good job with the defense and Dabol's scheme and playcalling was a world better than what we've seen the last few years. Don't see that saving either of them if the new coach decides he wants something else.
     
  4. SCall13

    SCall13 ThePhins QB

    So Daboll's improved offense, Nolan's defense is the problem? Sparano and, of course Ireland are bigger problems. Bowles is more open minded about opening things up than was Sparano. That's a big difference on offense. Defensively, we need some help in the secondary and pass rush. But Nolan has done a good job with what we have - even when taking into consideration the slow start.
     
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  5. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How do you know this?

    We didn't do anything differently in the 3 games coached by bowles than we had done the entire second half of the season under Sparano.
     
  6. SCall13

    SCall13 ThePhins QB

    Not so sure. Seems we were more aggressive on offense. Doesn't mean it was statistically way more effective. But we were certainly playing to score TDs. We were more aggressive in trying to push the ball down field. I feel Bowles will be more open to letting the offense be more aggressive and go for what matters: TDs. And the biggest question I asked is this: who is better out there right now considering who we have an actual chance to get?
     
  7. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Honestly, prolly shoulda just kept Tony.
     
  8. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I was among the few (maybe only one) thinking we should have just kept Sparano. I don't see keeping Bowles, Daboll, and Nolan as a bad option. I don't think we have a bad team outside of a few key components. I think that wanting a better outcome is not always about changing everything, but rather about figuring out what to change. I think Parcells and then Henning were the biggest problems. I think that without the lockout and the defense coming in out of shape we would have seen a playoff team this year. We still need to upgrade at QB, S then OL and second pass rusher, second TE, but one year of Ireland in draft and FA wasn't bad. If we hit on the QB and there are several I like after Luck, then I think this team is capable of competing with the talent and coaching staff they have. That QB and S are the biggest keys.
     
  9. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    7-9, 7-9, 6-10. You're pleased with that level of progression?

    I'm tired of hearing we are only a few pieces away. This is the NFL. Every team can make that argument.
     
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  10. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I share your feelings, SCall.

    I like Daboll and believe he has the potential to develop into a fine OC. He obviously hasn't reached his ceiling.
    IMO ditching Nolan would make no sense and is nearly akin to looking a gift horse in the mouth b/c there's always a chance our defense takes a turn for the worse with a different DC.



    I agree with you about Bowles.
    8 of the 9 10+ win teams this year feature a HC with no prior NFL head coaching experience.

    Mike McCarthy-- 49ers OC prior to Green Bay.
    Sean Payton-- Dallas's assistant HC & QB coach before New Orleans.
    Jim Harbaugh-- came from Stanford.
    John Harbaugh-- Philly's ST coordinator before Balt.
    Mike Tomlin-- Minne's DC before Pitt.
    Jim Schwartz-- Tennessee's DC before taking the Lions' job.
    Mike Smith-- Jags DC prior to Atlanta.
    Gary Kubiac-- Denver's OC before Houston.


    That leaves only one 10+ win coach---- Belichick.
    (The above list doesn't include 2 coaches who made last year's final 4--- Rex Ryan & Lovie Smith, no prior HC experience.)

    If you want a great HC, the odds clearly fall in the favor of discovering the next great one.
     
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  11. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    The answer to you question should be quite obvious. The Dolphins were 6-10 with these individuals coaching the team this past season. Also if you noticed all the empty seats at all the Dolphin home games this season, the hiring of Bowles as the teams HC would do absolutely nothing to help fill those seats.

    It may not be Fisher who becomes the next head coach of the Dolphins, but there is no way Ross is ever going to hire a coach who was part of the coaching staff which has led this team to a 20-28 record over the last three seasons.
     
  12. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    I'm not so sure about that. He seems content to let the GM who lead us to that 20-28 record stay.
     
  13. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    A. You can't go by "who you think will help fill more seats"; you go by who you think will help you win.
    B. Coaches aren't like Michael Jordan; they don't pack the stands by themselves.
    C. If Bowles wins, fans will show up. If a big name coach comes in and loses, the stadium will still look barren.


    Mike McCarthy was the OC of a 4-12 San Fran team prior to the Packers.
    Mike Tomin was the DC of a 6-10 Viking team prior to Pitt.

    Actually, Tony Sparano was 18-27 with a moderately talented team to work with; Todd Bowles was 2-1, verse our division no less.
    Discarding Bowles from the mix b/c he's already a Dolphin would be a poor display of management.
     
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  14. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Something I didn't see coming was Matt Moore. In his last 10 games as a starter he was 6-4 with 61% Comp, 7.4 YPA, 15 TDs, 4 INT and a 96 passer rating.

    If Peterson has the juice to secure a big name HC then let the rebuild begin. Otherwise, Bowles is more than deserving of a HC job IMO.
     
  15. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd want to grill Bowles on game management and what he would let Daboll and Nolan do. If you don't get Sparano-like responses in those areas I would be ok with keeping things as they are. I don't see many problems as far as scheme on either side of the ball. I see a lack of top tier talent, questionable game management, and a little bad luck for the first 7 games. A different coach only addresses one of those things. And though I can't speak to Bowles because of the small sample size, I would be highly skeptical of the ability of Fisher, Gruden, or whoever else is in the running to be significantly better.
     
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  16. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    In all fairness, that GM was restricted during his first few years.
    IIRC, we really don't know how much Parcells impacted or handcuffed Ireland's performance and/or vision of the team.
    Are Sparano, Bonamego, Henning, Pasqualoni, and Lee on Ireland?

    I'm not sure if I'm either for or against Ireland, but I can't say he hasn't brought in decent talent, and I can't fault him for 5 inadequate coaches whom he had little to no part in hiring.


    How about all our coaches hired during the past 2 years?
    Daboll is an upgrade to Henning and is ascending as a coach.
    Promoting Darren Rizzi to ST coordinator was an improvement.
    How did Matt Moore turn out after Karl Dorrell's suspicious move to QB coach?
    Bill Sheridan? Our LBs are playing well, and Wake made a nice transition to NFL OLB.
    Jeff Nixon's first year at RB coach saw Reggie Bush's surprise 1000 yard rushing season.
    Dan Campbell's first year at TE coach saw some nice progress from Charles Clay.


    This whole team is fairly new. IMO it needs a little patience and some time to gel together after so much change has taken place. If you're constantly firing people, it becomes difficult to weed out the true roots of the problem. Part of me wouldn't mind seeing Ireland have another year & draft w/o Parcells' influence b/c he seems to have a good eye for the type of players who match up well with Nolan & Daboll, and that shouldn't be taken for granted.
     
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  17. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    Sparano was the sacrificial lamb and rightfully so. Someone had to take the heat after Parcells slithered out the back door like a slug and Tony gets a fat check and a nice condo on the beach from what I've read.

    If Bowles or Dorrell are named HC the team maintains it's continuity. I give Bowles a slight edge because he is a SB champ, but the work Dorrell did with Moore and Henne is impressive. One of the things that caught my ear was after Moore got concussed, Losman said he didn't take the majority of reps during the week. That tells me Devlin is ready to go as well. No one we've had in a while spins it like Pat.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOBxUdi3glQ
     
  18. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    As I said, IMO Parcells and Henning were the biggest problems. We've only seen one season with them gone. I liked the draft and I liked the the way the team looked once the defense got in shape and the offense got more fully installed with Moore.
     
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  19. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I watched that video back around draft time, and Devlin for pure passing skills is as impressive as Dalton. IMO.
     
  20. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Thanks Todd, that's a compelling argument for just making Bowles the permanent head coach, or sign Toub for the job.
     
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  21. Harmalama

    Harmalama Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought I saw somewhere that Miami was no 2 in the league behind Green Bay for plays greater than 20 yards. I like that kind of aggression!
     
  22. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

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    It's beyond me why people can't see it but Jeff Ireland is the teams largest issue. Nolan and Daboll are perfectly fine and i think we'd be in alright shape with Bowles heading up the team, as long as Ireland is gone. With Ireland calling the personell shots, we are going nowhere. Just that simple. He has yet to find a QB, yet to find a Safety to compliment Bell, yet to complete the offensive line and yet to find a pass rusher to compliment wake. All problems the team has had since he got here. He has had NUMEROUS opportunities to fix them too.
     
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  23. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    2010 draft is what set us back honestly was a poor draft considering the great players that we could of took that we missed on. yes of course hindsight is 50/50 but 2nd year is when your drafted players need to step up and be nfl ready and we really haven't got much at all out of that draft. So I would agree with Jeff Ireland being a problem at the same time starting 0-7 is still part of the coaching staffs fault however you want to slice it.
     
  24. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I think it was mentioned during the Phins/Jests game. I couldn't believe my ears when they said it. Kinda hard to believe really, but I guess it's true.
     
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  25. SCall13

    SCall13 ThePhins QB


    Yeah. That's what I'm saying
     
  26. SCall13

    SCall13 ThePhins QB

    It is hard to believe that we ended up only behind Green Bay, yet the amount of points between them and us is insane. Between the 20s or hell even 10s, we moved the ball very well. Just couldn't finish.
     
  27. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Daniel Thomas and our line had a lot to do with that.
     
  28. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, Daboll isnt the problem. He actually did a nice job and was a big improvement. Think about what can happen if he has an above average QB to work with
     
  29. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    They should at least keep Nolan...
     
  30. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Ireland hasn't had numerous opportunities since he's only had final say one year. The rumors during his first year here were that he preferred Ryan, but that Parcells preferred Long so it can't even be said that Ireland doesn't prioritize the position. Last draft was the first time he was in charge. I wanted a QB as much as any, but I would not have taken the ones that fell to our pick. Other than Dalton, who I never scouted, the others haven't shown much. And with out a second rounder we didn't have the resources to move up for Newton. The only other choice Ireland could have made was to ridiculously over pay for Orton. It was clearly a better choice to go with Moore, a guy Ireland had originally scouted while in Dallas.
     
  31. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    How exactly do you or anyone else on here know how much influence Ireland had while Parcells was with the team? The fact is that he has been the GM of this organization for the last four years, not just for one year. I think giving him a pass for his first three years because Parcells was his boss is ridiculous. As far as Ireland having to overpay Orton if he came to the Dolphins. I have no idea if it is true or not, but rumor is that Ireland wanted to make the trade and it was Ross who stepped in and stopped Ireland from going through with the trade with the Broncos.

    Ireland has been employed and highly paid to be the GM of the Dolphins for four years and he should be held accountable for the lack of talented players on this team during all four years. The fact is that once Parcells left the organization and Ireland was without his so called mentor, the Dolphins had their worst record since 2007. Ireland is the major problem with the Dolphin organization right now and the sooner he is replaced, the sooner the Dolphins can get on with rebuilding this franchise.
     
  32. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    You're basically assuming that Ireland had full say for no good reason. That is simplistic at best. It has been admitted that at a minimum it was a community decision and it's obvious to everybody that Parcells would have had the biggest say in that community. So at a minimum it would be ridiculous to lay those first three years on Ireland. The rumors along the way have been that Parcells mostly took the lead in the early rounds and that Ireland generally ran things late. It is also well known that Ireland ran the CFL and UDFA sides of things. As for Orton, the way I heard it, Ross asked Ireland to compile a list of the QBs available in FA and by trade. Ireland's first choice was Palmer, but the cost was prohibitive. With the idiot fan base chanting for Orton, Ross told Ireland to assess the cost to acquire him. My understanding was that Ireland said he wouldn't advise paying the cost and that it was more prudent to stick with Henne and Moore and to find the QB in the next draft. The final choice though was Ross' and he nixed the trade for Orton. Part of the reason that Ross still respects Ireland's opinion is that after Orton started off so badly in Denver he feels Ireland gave him good advice on that one. Also it would be an easy matter for Ross to ask around the scouting department and assess what draft picks really were primarily Parcells and which ones were Ireland's. I've heard rumors that Ross has done exactly that and that Ireland had a pretty specific accounting of what picks he was recommending. That makes far more sense than just saying "Ireland has been employed and highly paid to be the GM of the Dolphins for four years and he should be held accountable for the lack of talented players on this team during all four years".
     
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  33. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Fresh eyes? Daboll has been here one year, and didn't even have a real offseason. And our offense was much improved over last year. First time ever we had a 1,000 yard receiver and 1,000 rusher in the same season. It's all up to whoever the new coach is, but Daboll has earned a right to keep his gig, IMO.

    Nolan, on the other hand, has orchestrated back to back top 10 defenses. Again, it all depends on what the new coach wants but both have done a fine job.
     
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  34. SCall13

    SCall13 ThePhins QB


    Not really in defense of Ireland: But Dalton hasn't been a world burner and Mallet is a total unknown as of now. But there are other examples of him missing on this and that. He hasn't been terrible -as far as getting depth goes. But he's been bad when it comes to play makers. Our depth isn't an issue. Unfortunately, our depth is almost as good as our starters in a lot of areas. We need to go big. And I'm not talking o-line and d-line.
     
  35. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I disagree about Mallett. As for Dalton, pretty much everybody missed as he didn't go in the first. Ireland did hit with Moore.
     
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