Anyone Still Think Matt Ryan Is the Franchise QB That Got Away?

As I illustrated earlier though thats what youre seeing now. Prior to the rule changes you could see a team QB'ed by a Rex Grossman actually make it to a SB.

Now? Now ill be unequivocally stunned if Baltimore, Denver, SF or Houston make it to the SB because their QB play is so inconsistent from game to game. I give those teams almost no shot. Im putting NE in the SB vs either NYG, GB or NO. I dont think any of the other teams even make it past next sunday.

 

aaron rodgers
peyton manning
ben roethlisberger
tom brady
eli manning (david diehl)
drew brees.

Name me their left tackles. Who's the best of the bunch. Matt Light? Clifton? Bushrod? Pittsburgh has NEVER invested a high draft pick on a left tackle. Pouncey was the first first rounder they drafted on the line in like 30 years.

Take the steelers approach vs those of the teams drafting Long, Clady and Joe Thomas. I'll go with Pittsburgh. They've been doing it a LOOOOONG time.

How much do the best teams prioritize their LT? You put that out there. Let's discuss it.

 

Interesting discussion Toddphins.

Let's look at the playoff teams.

Cincinatti
Houston
Pittsburgh
Denver
Detroit
New Orleans
Atlanta
NY Giants
New England
Baltimore
Green Bay
San Francisco.

How many invested high draft picks on LT"s out of these? I know Clady for sure who some of you think overrated. Who else?

 

Eli Manning is about as inconsistent as anyone. game against the Redskins just a few weeks ago while fighting for playoff lives?

I dont' think Houston makes it. I just can't see it. But I agree with you I see a shootout in the Superbowl happening. But crazy things have happened and we'll see if Balt/Denver/SF makes it. Kind of want to see it happen. That'll throw a wrench into the elite QB talk.

Let's not forget Green Bay almost doesn't even make it to the playoffs last year, they come in as a 6th seed. I won't be stunned because I've seen crazy things happen in the NFL.

IT truly is a game of inches.

 

JDang, you know how I know you're wrong?
----> If Ryan were as good as you think he is, Atlanta wouldn't have traded so much to move up for Julio Jones b/c they would've had more confidence is Ryan's ability to win games on his own with their existing talent. It's not like they didn't have an outstanding #1 WR in White. If they were missing a deep threat, they could've added a complimentary #2 WR capable of such rather than going after another #1 WR.

Everything you've argued about "not needing All-Pro talent scattered around the offense to help your QB succeed" has been nullified by Atlanta's pick of Julio. It's not enough that Ryan has had All-Pros in White, Gonzalez, Turner, Ovie Mughelli, and Tyson Claybo? Let's see, that's 1 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB, 1 FB, 1 tackle...... the 6th overall pick on Julio and a 1st round pick on LT Sam Baker. Yup, clearly Ryan doesn't need any help and is the reason for their success. <sarcasm>

Based on the talent around Ryan, he should be a top 5 QB if he were a legit franchise QB. A case could be made that he's possibly been under-performing based on his surrounding cast.

 

He still has to throw the ball.
Tom Brady must suck he hasn't won a superbowl in forver and they got one of the best WRs ever in the whole world and he still couldn't win it.

We can play this game all day.

If you have a good qb you surround him with good players

If they weren't confident in his ability they would have ...drafted a QB?

I do find it funny you felt Henne could be our guy with better surrounding cast and playcalling but Ryan ain't the guy because of .. a better surrounding cast and good coaching staff.

EDIT:
By the way, when you said that I argued:

Where did I say that?

 

I'm rooting for the Broncos to win. I seriously am. Throws everything we "know" about football out the damn window.

IT would be epic.

 

Ryan can RARELY carry his team on his back. You can say what you want about Long "not carrying a team on his back" b/c he's not directly involved in handling the ball, but the lacking in mobility Ryan certainly is NOT doing any carrying when he has no protection. It doesn't matter how good a QB is; if he has no time to throw or constantly has his rhythm disrupted, he's not carrying anything..... except maybe his mouthpiece off the turf.

 

You said it; Ryan is only as effective as Turner's ground game allows him to be.

 

You certainly can defend Parcells' words and say he was unsure about Ryan b/c he specifically said Long is a "surer bet". Surer bet than whom? Since he's talking about LT and QB, I'm guessing he's referring to Matt Ryan, and if he's more sure about Long, then by deduction it means he's less sure or unsure about Ryan.

 

So we could've kicked 1 FG and still won that game?
This isn't helping your case. lol.


So what you're saying is--- since the chance of finding an elite QBs is very "SLIM", our best chance to beat Brady, win our division, and get to the SB is by continuing to build a dominant defense capable of containing Brady? That's an outstanding point, Dang.

 

The Ryan defenders are the same people who almost committed suicide when we passed on Quinn.

Elite LT > Average QB

 

BUshrod was 1 of 3 Saints Olinemen to make the 2012 SB team. Brees sends a thank you card.

 

Wrap your head around this. Eli Manning just threw for the sixth most yards in NFL history this season, and was 67 yards away from being the fourth person over 5,000 yards passing. Three 5,000 yard seasons in the SAME YEAR. 4,000 yards is average these days.

 

Elite? No. Very good, sure. Maybe even excellent. If you're going to call him elite, you certainly can't call Ryan average. At this point, I'd say very good left tackle and good quarterback is fair. That's a much tougher call as to who is more valuable.

Let's further consider a couple of key things about the offensive line anchored by Long. In four seasons, there have been all of two thousand yard seasons behind that line. In 2008, it gave up 26 sacks. In 2009, it gave up 34 sacks. In 2010, it gave up 38 sacks. In 2011, it gave up a whopping 52 sacks.

What about any of that is impressive?

 

Brees, rodgers, brady. Three of the four or five elite, franchise, whatever you want to call it qbs in the league. Not one of them took a top 20 pick to get. In fact only one took a first round pick.

**edit my point is long over ryan good decision, not bringing in real competition for henne bad decision. Buckshot over slugs when hunting the elusive franchise qb.

 

What??? How can that be??? Moore was an UDFA, how could he ever be as good as a high 1st round pick???

You know I'm kidding.
And as for all those folks already sniffing Matt Flynn's jock, he is no better than Matt Moore either!!!

 

We more so need a right side to the offensive line that will allow the QB to better remain upright and get the ball to the incumbent playmakers.

 

LMAO at anyone who judges Mularkey based on one game. If ya liked him before this game, ya shouldn't completely turn based on one game no matter how the offense played. If ya didn't like him, then ya still won't.

He's not my first choice for the next head coach, but overall he was a very good OC in Pittsburgh, and overall, been good in Atlanta.

 

Bleh it's never been a Jake Long Vs Matt Ryan argument.

It should always be the fact Miami never chose the right QB period. If they had hit on a decent QB to put with Jake Long this argument would never happen. Hell if Miami can find the right QB after this season the argument is can still be moot because we will have a hall of fame LT (if injuries don't derail that) still.

And no Matt Ryan is NOT a franchise QB. Point to his stats all you want but that boy has the talent around him to be putting up ridiculous numbers and right now Atlanta with Ryan has as many playoff wins as we do.

 

And there it is. Once again the idea that because not every first round QB pick pans out, teams shouldn't draft franchise prospects. Forget about what Matt Ryan's career has been. You keep using hindsight to support your argument. I'm saying I believe it's a mistake to pass on QB for the safer pick when winning in today's NFL has been proven to be very highly correlated with successfully throwing the ball.

I'm done debating QBs on this board. It's astounding to me that no matter how long lack of a franchise QB continues to be the biggest reason this team has not been successful since Marino and you still have a flock of fans who continue to defend the franchise's ineptitude at addressing the position.

Enjoy the mediocrity.

 

"Enjoy the mediocrity" is a ****ty way to acknowledge you've got no way of arguing the lack of a success rate of quarterbacks and the idea that you need to be judicious in drafting one or subjected to more failure than just making due.

When there's been essentially two quarterbacks in the last few years who have been worthwhile and they've both gone #1 overall in the last several years, and you're saying that we should have been drafting them anyway and not seeing a problem with that, what room is there for reasonable argument?

 

One thing that did hurt Ryan yesterday was that O-Line,it was bad.I do think he is a little overrated tho and OK with picking Jake over him.

 

Lack of success rate of quarterbacks? All I know is since 2005 (when rules regarding pass interference changed), 5 of the last 6 superbowl winning QBs were drafted in the first round.

Of course not every QB taken in the first round will be successful. That doesn't mean you don't try as some of you seem to be suggesting. But like I said, this argument is always going to be fruitless on this board. There will be a large contingent of posters who believe Matt Moore should be the guy simply because he's the incumbent QB. Arguing the point will be as useful as arguing that John Beck or Chad Henne weren't franchise QBs.

 

People always forget that we shoould have had both Rodgers and Long on the same team.

 

With every QB I evaluate I try to determine if they're likely to become a franchise QB. I don't set out specific percentages, like player X has a 50% change of being elite. It's more of a nebulous rating which is obviously closely tied to my individual tolerance for risk. With Ryan I stated at draft time that I thought he would be a good QB, but that he wasn't very likely to be a franchise QB. I said that Flacco had a better chance of becoming elite and that Henne had less of a chance than Ryan, but not significantly less. Ryan though had the best chance to be that good QB (low bust probability). Despite that, I did feel that Ryan was worth the first overall. We really needed a QB and a good QB can at least get you wins during the regular season. But I was also adamant that Long was the guy I wanted. I feel that an elite LT is a core need, even more so if you don't have an elite QB. And I felt that Long's chances of being an elite LT were very high. I believe that you're better off getting the elite players at core positions when you can than you are settling for just good players.

 

QB>OL

Any day of the week.

YOur talking hindsight now but on draft day it should always be QB>OL

 

So if Long and Jamarcuss came out in the same draft, you take Russell?

 

I'm not talking hindsight since I was explaining my reasoning from before the draft. And an elite QB > an elite LT, but when it's a good QB vs. an elite LT that's not as cut and dry.

 

It always cracks me up when people discuss 1st round QBs being the only possible positions that bust. Tony Mandarich, Robert Gallery (called the biggest sure thing in recent memory), Levi Brown and many other OTs have been selected and sucked. If people aren't enamored by Matt Ryan that's fine, but to hope and pray that we'll have a 2000 Baltimore Ravens run is preposterous. It just doesn't happen anymore. You have to put your hat in the ring in order to win. When you don't try because you're too scared to be wrong, you'll be doomed to mediocrity. You think Bill Gates or Steve Jobs never took risks?

 

Didn't like him before and even if I was basing my opinion on his stint in Atlanta it wouldn't be based off of one game.
While most of the criticism has come at Ryan for the Atl. offense not being able to seemingly get over the top while he's been there, while watching them I've increasingly felt that offense is being handcuffed. They have some great talent and it at least deserves to be in the discussion as to whether Mularkey has been utilizing that talent well.

 

I seriously doubt jobs and gates bet only on one avenue of business.

 

Matt Flynn = 6TDs vs Lions week 17 game = Franchise QB - go get him!
Matt Ryan = 3 playoff loses in 4 yrs with 11-5, 9-7, 13-3, and 10-6 regular seasons = NOT a Franchise QB - stay away!

some of my favorites are like this one:
Alex Smith = worst HC ever, multiple OC's, = NOT a Franchise QB - horrible BUST
Alex Smith = new HC Jim Harbaugh the God, winning record, bye = Franchise QB - we should be so lucky

yup...this message board is filled with lots of 20/20 football brainy experts on what it takes to build a franchise and MEASURE it properly.

 

what are you a robot..the evaluation or how you have them rated means nothing?..

What part of selecting Henne at the end of round 2 don't you understand, They had Long as the better player, and Henne pretty close to what was considered the best prospect..

If thats what your work concluded, then you take the left tackle.

 

That is what you are reading?

This message board is filled with lots of 20/20 forum brainy experts who love to make things up so they can look smart and witty.

 

Most of the time, frankly, when its about a given player, or coach....yes!

Its always a conversation like the above...20/20 latest news/stats only in passing judgement. It so silly season.

Whether its about a Phins player or coach, or opposing NFL or college player. The mindset is the same, "give me the current STAT leaders, we would win a superbowl with them, but the non-stat leaders are garbage and busts; would never want them on this team, dont want a coach of the same ilk either". blah, blah, blah....the minute the STATS change, suddenly its the reverse.

Comical!