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What hasn't this franchise tried since Marino / Shula? Big Hint - it invovles the QB

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by MonstBlitz, Jan 18, 2012.

  1. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    So Ted Ginn was a pick that someone thought was a safe decision? :lol:
     
  2. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Well,yeah. Dont get me wrong I like Moore( especially over Henne) but Smith is better overall than what we currently have.
     
  3. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    No his family was the safe decision :up:
     
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  4. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    :lol:
     
  5. RGF

    RGF THE FINSTER Club Member

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    Whoa........didnt see that coming.
     
  6. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    :arabia:
     
  7. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Well, you're calling it wrong. Those other QBs (except Henne) have all gone on to play for other teams, and not a single one of them has been worth a damn. Those QBs were not destroyed by crappy coaches ( agree they were crappy). Those QBs just plain sucked.
     
  8. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    And save for a set of hands, they DID give us everything they had.
     
  9. overseas

    overseas 25th Fin-Fan anniversary

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    I think you have to dig deeper than only the QB-position.
    This franchise is not able to recognize, identify and draft gamechangers, heck superstars, on the offensive side of the ball at all.
    The last game changers we drafted were No. 13 and Duper almost 30 years ago.
    Since than we got mostly bust, some solid players and passed on the likes of Brees, Rodgers or Moss.
    The only position we hit were on the OL where we got Sims, Webb and Long.
    QB´s ? Henne is probably the best of them and that tells alot.
    RB´s ? Kirby, KAJ and Brown were nothing more than ok. JJJ, Collins, Konrad, Pritchett, Avery, Minor...
    WR ? OJ and Chambers. Good but not great. Green, Shannon, Turner, Ginn...
    TE? Maybe McMichael. Mitchell and Lee were traded away before they did something.
     
  10. CRAZYFACE

    CRAZYFACE Active Member

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    As far as I see it, the QB is the ONLY player to get the ball on EVERY offensive play. He is then instrumental to EVERY play that is called. He is also responsible to react to EVERY offesive play that isn't playing out as was designed. If anyone on here thinks that ANY position on the field of play is more important than the QB you should not be watching football.
     
  11. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Marino, Griese and who else did we take in the 1st? Only other one I can think of is Rick Norton.
     
  12. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Fred Davis plays for the Redskins.
     
  13. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The Ravens are still playing in spite of Flacco, not because of him.
     
  14. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Lots of folks are ready to trust Matt Flynn after one big game.
     
  15. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I'm not one of them. I'm not going to say I don't think there's any chance he can be a successful QB in this league, but I'm of the mindset that teams don't let franchise QBs become free agents too often. Drew Brees being one of the rare exceptions. That's why I'd much rather see us try and draft our QB of the future than play the free agent game again.
     
  16. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I just want to repeat this again, because it might have gotten lost in my original post. QB has always been our biggest weakness since Marino retired. It's always been the missing link. And in 12 years not 1 first round pick spent on the position. Is anybody else not floored by that? What other team do you know of that has had the same weakness for that amount of time and hasn't used a first round pick to address the position? You can find some good reasons in some of those 12 drafts, but when you look at the entire 12 year period it just seems like complete madness. Will draft #13 be our lucky number? Will the 13th draft since Dan Marino left be the year we get our QB? Fingers crossed.
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    A couple of people are saying that.

    Lots of folks are saying its worth bringing Flynn in for a shot.

    No one knows if Flynn can be elite. That's the difference between him and players like Grossman & Orton. Those guys have had their chances to be elite and were not. Flynn hasn't. In his one real showing, he played in a NFL game against NFL opponents and was amazing. That's more promise than any rookie outside of Luck. He will not cost any picks. He will not impede our chances of getting other QBs next year. He has the highest ceiling for the smallest risk (assuming we can protect ourselves with an out clause). It is foolish not to try.

    If we hire Philbin, this makes even more sense, since he'll likely install the same offense that Flynn knows and did well in.

    We have to start getting ballsy when it comes to QB acquisitions on this team. We've played it safe (outside of Pat White) for decades now and...surprise....our biggest need that whole time has been QB. I say go for Flynn AND draft a QB. And keep getting QB's every year, until we find an elite one.
     
  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    It's worth giving him a shot if the contract is reasonable enough that the team signing him won't have to anoint him the starter and he merely competes on a level field with whomever the team signing him already has. My guess though is the deal Kolb signed last year has set the bar for whomever the top young FA QB is this year, which would be Flynn.
    I'd rather draft a QB than pay Flynn what Kolb got. Even to include reaching for Tannehill or Weeden at 8/9.

    What I'd do this offseason is resign Henne for something like 4-5mil for 2 yrs and also draft Tannehill, Weeden or Foles.
    Henne as the #2 would be better than most teams have in that role. Weeden is my personal favorite of those 3. A QB depth chart of Moore, Henne and Weeden going into next season would be pretty solid to me. Let them fight it out and the best man wins.
    I'd love to have RG3 of course, who wouldn't, but the Skins and the Browns are both QB needy even more than we are, and in a position to outbid us in any trade up attempt.
     
  19. sws84

    sws84 Season Ticket Holder

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    I like this idea the most, so far. :)
     
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  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I agree, its not worth it if the contract anoints him the starter. That's it though. The difference between Kolb & Flynn is that Kolb had more games to actually showcase is talents. That's why I don't think Flynn will get the same deal. If we get Flynn, our 1st rd pick can be used on BPA and our 2nd can be used on a player like Weeden or Tannehil.
     
  21. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Do you still think Flynn is a good get if he comes without Philbin?

    I agree with most of what you have said about Flynn except for what you say about the money. I think with that one monster game, my guess is he'll command at least nearly the same as Kolb. I'm not completely opposed to what you suggest, but it would be more of the same, just combining 2 past failed methods (free agent + 2nd round pick).
     
  22. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    The jets, although in hindsight stupid, traded everything to move up to 5 and get Sanchez. They thought they had their guy and they went for him. 2 AFC championship game appearences later, they are always in the mix/talked about as a good team. If we feel RGIII (I do) is a guy that can change things around here, I don't care what it takes....you ****ing do it. Get RGIII, bring in an exciting offense, a smart, good kid with incredible talent/ceiling and watch this town errupt like it hasnt in years.

    RGIII Baby.......make it happen!!!
     
  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I think he's worth a shot. What do we have to lose, other than some of Ross' money?
     
  24. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Yeah, as long as we arent trading away valuable draft picks for flash in the pan Aj Feelys of the world, I can live with a bit of FA money going to waste.
     
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  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If I was GM, here's what I'd do every year with the draft:

    1. Do I have a franchise QB?
    If no go to #2. If yes, then is he 30 or older? If no then skip the steps. If yes, go to #2.

    2. Is there a QB available that I feel has a 65% or better chance to be a franchise?
    If no go to #3. If yes, draft him with your first pick.

    3. Is there a QB available that I feel has a 50% chance or better to be a franchise?
    If no draft BPA. If yes, draft him with your second pick.

    And for Free Agency:

    1. Do I have a franchise QB?
    If no go to #2. If yes, then is he 30 or older? If no then skip the steps. If yes, go to #2.

    2. Is there a QB available that I feel has a 65% or better chance to be a franchise?
    If no go to #3. If yes, sign him without giving up picks the next year.

    3. Is there a QB available that I feel has a 50% chance or better to be a franchise?
    If no then skip. If yes, sign him without giving up any picks.
     
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  26. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Given what we've seen from Ireland in the past, do you think he would both bring in Flynn AND draft a QB? My guess would be no. In that scenario, bringing in Flynn comes with the opportunity cost of possibly missing out on a potential franchise QB in the draft.

    Again, I'm not saying I'm completely opposed to Flynn. I'm just saying it's not often teams just let potential franchise QBs enter free agency. Maybe the Packers are ok with it since they have Rodgers and can't afford to tie up the money to keep Flynn.

    And then you have the disaster scenario: What if Flynn is good, but not good enough? What if he has a season like Henne's 2009 campaign but never takes the next step? Then you're looking at potentially another 2 - 3 years of not spending a top pick in the draft on QB while you wait to see if the light comes on. And if it doesn't, how many franchise QBs will we have missed out on? I think it's fair to assume at least 2 or 3 will come out of the next 3 draft classes. This risk is also present with a QB you draft. But when we look back historically at how many free agent QBs have been successful, and how many first round picks have been successful, is the risk worth it with a free agent QB if it means also not drafting a QB high?
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I think there'd be a chance. Ireland is known for doubling down on positions.

    As far as if Flynn is only average, then refer to my post right before yours.
     
  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Thanks Ratso
     
  29. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Once again we see a superbowl with 2 teams headlined by great QBs. The NFL and average Joe Blow NFL fan are happy. It came damn close to being Flacco vs. Alex Smith.

    Should the Giants win that will be 6 out of 7 of the last superbowl winning QBs being first round picks. If the Patriots win, it will be arguably the best QB in the game getting another superbowl ring. Either way, this years superbowl will once again demonstrate the importance of the passing game and having a franchise QB.
     
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  30. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    the poor house

    Because all other methods have failed and that my friend is the truth.




    its past time we stop making excuses for not getting talent and some of you guys think too highly of our wr corp . How about some of you top flaping your beaks and look harder it why the team hasnt been to but one playoff game in 12 years .

    its really comical around here that everytime someone wants to get a skill player or make a bold move others quickly argue against it .

    we traded we , we sign 100 free agent qb's in the last 12 years but the real problem is we have kept running the same ole offense year after year and that is the killer of why we havent been good for so long.

    so when this team changes the mindset and get 4 wrs in here to compliment Marshall and we spread the field then our quarter backs can suceed.
     
  31. MAFishFan

    MAFishFan Team Tannehill

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    just keep drafting one every year until one is found
     
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  32. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    And for those keeping score at home 7 of the last 8 Superbowl winning QBs were drafted in the first round. Starting to become quite a trend. Here's hoping we either bring in one of those 7 QBs (Manning) or draft our own.
     
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  33. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Nonsense. We can win a Super Bowl with Matt Moore or some guy we draft in the 3rd round or a guy we sign for 60 Million with 2 career starts. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.
     
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  34. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    the poor house


    very well said . plus we could have given up on several qbs by not giving them a decent chance to improve. I.E. Sage, Gus , Beck , Brian , and then throwing players out there who weren't completely healthy.

    Yet I realize that Beck wasnt the answer but we really just threw him out there when he wasnt ready and i think if we gradually had gave him playing time maybe he could have success.
     
  35. bran

    bran Senior Member

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    the thing is we cant just draft a qb in the first round just to say we drafted one, we have to make sure its the right one that will fit in what we want to do and can lead this team for over a decade. everyone wanted brian brohm people wanted brady quinn, people on espn saying we were dumb for not drafting quinn. in the 2012 draft is their a franchise qb that we can get? outside of luck/RG III i dont think so
     
  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Sooooo, don't draft a QB unless its a sure thing? Cause that's basically what you're saying.

    First round picks that bust won't put anyone in cap hell anymore, so we might as well gamble. You have to buy a ticket if you want to win.
     
  37. Phyl

    Phyl New Member

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    I think our holding pattern of being terrified of trying to find a franchise QB in the first round has brought us a ton of success. Trying to find a franchise QB in the first round is a total waste of time. This passing thing is a fad like the internet or cars.
     
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  38. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I'll just never understand why fans on this board are so terrified of taking a chance on drafting a QB. Like a bunch of lonely dudes at the high school dance afraid to talk to the pretty girl on the other side of the room for fear of getting shot down. As if paying Matt Flynn to a huge contract and a boatload of money isn't risky. Or relying on Matt Moore to be our starter at the risk he shows no improvement and navigates us to about a .500 record. No matter how you address the QB position there is risk involved. The facts are Quarterbacks drafted in the first round have a higher degree of success in the NFL. The proof is all over the place and much of it is already documented in this thread.

    Drafting a Quarterback in the first round doesn't guarantee success. But never trying is a pretty surefire way for this franchise to remain mired in mediocrity for another decade.

    Wouldn't it be great to draft our QB of the future in the first round of the 13th draft since #13 retired?

    And for those of you who say Luck and Griffin are the only 2 franchise QBs of the draft - I'm no expert but I can almost guarantee at least one other QB shoots up the charts and ends up with a 1st round grade by the time the draft gets here. I'm guessing sometime after the combine.
     
  39. electrolyte

    electrolyte New Member

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    The Giants refused to settle for Phillip Rivers and traded the farm to grab Eli Manning.

    2 super bowl championships later, their QB has 2 SB mvp trophies and might go to the hall of fame.

    Meanwhile..... we settle. We settle for 2nd rounders, we settle for other team's garbage (orton) or "hey guys we should just keep moore!", or even worse "bring back henne!"
     
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  40. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I'm not against drafting a QB however I am against drafting a QB just to draft a QB. If you don't see a franchise guy you don't draft a second tier guy just to draft a QB. If you don't see a guy you like you can't reach.
     

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