Irish signs a 6'4 240 running back from the CFL..

It took 39 post before people starting hating on Ireland for this pick. That has to be a record here. He signed a guy with zero risk to the team and high reward and some people still knock him. He could pull a swap for Rogers and a 5th round pick and people would complain.

 

Dixon and Simms did not play together. That line was Webb, Dixon, Ruddy, Donnalley/Gogan, and James Brown.

 

To be fair, I don't hate Ireland, I do mistrust his moves over the last 2 yrs.

He missed badly in 2010 and onwards, he went safe when we needed more performance from him.

We sign Messam and he goes for say 600 yds and 3 Td's, a nice season for this type of player move, that won't make up for the low fruit in 2010 and 2011, how Dallas could have Witten, and he passed on Gronk, Hernandez, Maoeki, Graham, in favor of Odrick, Misi and Jerry, cast a shadow on the job he has done.

Especially with neither Misi or Jerry having much of a guarantee of even playing in 2012 let alone starting.

 

Just from the little that I saw from the video, one thing that stands out is that the guy runs high. Problem?

He also looks to have a slight build, and runs more like a slasher than a bruiser. But he does have some power (easily seen by throwing his OG out of the way like a rag doll), I just wonder whether or not he can/will use it. Does anyone understand the type of blocking scheme Miami will run under Philbin? If so, could you explain? Thanks.

Could be something. Could be nothing. Let's see how he pass protects, or chips and rolls.

 

Well, my post was technically the 38th response to the OP, but I think you might be talking about me. I didn't hate on the pick up of this guy. I hated on his maneuver of trading up for Daniel Thomas in last year's draft. I'm actually giving him some credit hoping he realizes the RB position is plug and play. It's the one position in the NFL you can win by bargain shopping at.

No I wouldn't.

 

I can speak to the fact blocking schemes in the CFL use a lot of Zone concepts in them, so he should fit in, as to his style, keep in mind he played at Graceland College, rode the pine for 2 yrs in the CFL and there simply is not the same level of coaching available in the CFL as there is in the NFL so there is a technique learning curve involved, could turn out great for us, could turn out to be gone quickly as well.

I can say we did sign him.

 

Thanks, Pad. For those of us who do not really understand the zone blocking scheme (I think I get it.....know that Shanahan used it plenty while in Denver), could you give us the skinny?

I have to admit, I'm not well-versed in blocking schemes, so....I guess I'm asking for myself!

 

I'm not either, but have seen some of Zone a bit:

think:

T-G-C-G-T

They block man on man, guy in front of them, they put a helmet on them with a G/C pulling to the other side of the line on a pull.

With Zone

T-G-C/G/T

The Center or Guard or Tackle will "cut" the defender, the other offensive lineman will then leave guys and instead of firing straight off of the ball, they slant////

That slant blocking creates gaps in the defensive line, the Rb's job is to plant their foot and read whichever gap that has been created that they are going to run through, at full speed, they in effect are running downhill at full speed.

What makes this tough on the defensive line is unlike man on man blocking they have to protect their legs with their hands, or the OL will cut them creating that / / gap for the Rb to hit, that takes away from their aggressiveness to head up field and get after the Qb.

This is my understanding of it anyway.

 

TRAINING CAMP!! Nuff said cost use next to nothing and he was a top player in the CFL so its worth seeing what he can give us. I mean we would have a major change of pace here. Also hes a great hands catcher for those screens where going to see.

 

That's fair, no need to hype or degrade Messam, he'll show what he has to offer soon enough.

 

the article I read says he is a FB, that would make more sense

 

Well, I watched 8 minutes of video, I saw numerous times when he did very well getting yards after contact. I dunno what the other fella was talking about. The dude has skills, no doubt about that. It just looks like a low risk high reward signing to me.

 

Mark Dixon was a very good signing out of the CFL in the mid 90s.

 

please can we call him, Jeff, Jeff Ireland or even JI, but please stop that bull$$$$$ "irish"....

 

So, until he does that we still have the right to complain.
Got it

 

If he doesn't pan out we could simply cut our losses. Sounds good to me.

 

More than one , but how can anyone forget the legendary Jake Scott ? You have to turn in your Dolphin badge if you don't include the original 13 ! Pfffttt ONE CFL player??? right.

Not you of course Mr. C , but go back and do a retake on the test .... one player .....

 

I forgot about that. Great call! The CFL has been a very fertile area for us over the years.

 

Not here, which is all that matters.

 

Chuck Klingeil as well .... there was a LB from BC I think that also started for Miami in the 80's ?

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/keyword/chuck-klingbeil

 

Not to do a giant write-up on a guy who is not really talented enough to end up the star of our football team or anything like that, but here's what I see:

1. Big time talent coming out of High School in Canada, ran for 308 yards and 2 TDs including the game-winner for Canada in the NFL Global Junior Championship. Signed a letter of intent at Rutgers but disqualified on academics. Big time JUCO transfer, rated the #2 JUCO transfer prospect in all the United States in 2007 after a couple years at North Dakota State College of Science where he was forced to play because of the academic problems that disqualified him from playing at Rutgers. Left Graceland University in the NAIA after one year where he rushed for 993 yards on 168 carries with 16 TDs in only just over 6 games before hurting his knee in the 7th game. Obviously he had nothing left to prove at the NAIA level.

2. Character has been a big problem throughout his career. Parents were barely in the picture growing up, never took school serious (says he regrets that the most), one of those guys who says he doesn't give a damn what people think of him. Got into fights with the BC Lions before being traded to Edmonton. Coming out of NAIA he blew off CFL evaluation camp to focus on his pro day. Arrested following a fight at a night club in London.

3. Looked a lot better in Edmonton than his tape as a BC Lion. Edmonton runs more zone stuff and he showed an aptitude for the cutback game. Also his legs looked stronger as he could sit and explode better. Pad level in traffic improved a good deal. Was not necessarily a higher effort player, though.

4. Shows cradle-level instincts for setting up and shaking defenders in the open field. What I mean by cradle-level is, his ability to lock on to the most threatening defensive player, identify his leverage, and develop a plan for setting him up and juking him, is instantaneous. It's an instinct thing, you don't have time to think about it. This is something guys tend to have or not by the time they get to this level. I can think of two examples off the top of my head. Against Hamilton he broke into the second level off a draw designed to go left but the hole in the lines opened up on the backside so he made the cutback to his right and broke into the secondary where a number of secondary players were closing the net on him. He identified the player that was most threatening and developed a plan for juking him while that defensive player was still 12 yards away. Since he'd already cut right and was running toward the defensive player, he made a sharp cut to his left to get the player reacting, and then made another sharp cut to the right, snapping the defender's ankles in half and breaking into the clear. Another instance he caught a ball in the backfield and had a defender bearing on him within 3 yards by the time he could get his head around and see him, he lowered his pads and broke the defender's tackle and by the time he got the guy to release his shoe, he had another defender within 4 yards bearing on him, and he instantaneously set up a cut to the inside, breaking that guy's ankles before being tackled by 3rd and 4th defenders. You'd be surprised how many NFL runners (mostly depth players) don't have instincts for things like that. Ronnie Brown was notorious for not knowing how to get away from defenders in the open field.

5. Not an overly physical player. He doesn't have Brandon Jacobs' stab-you-in-the-heart mentality. Then again, neither did Brandon Jacobs when he got to the NFL, he had to embrace his strengths as a player and that physicality developed over time. Messam was more physical in his running style in Edmonton than with the BC Lions.

6. Pad level was good by the time he got to Edmonton. There's a difference between being 6'4" and having bad pad level. The key is, don't look at him when he's running in the open field. That's a red herring. I could give two ****s about how upright you look in the open field when nobody's around you. You should run however you need to run to go the fastest you can. You have to look at pad level heading into a hit, and in those instances I don't have much problem with his pad level and it shows as he produces yards after contact at the CFL level. I'll give you an example. The play I talked about above where he catches the ball and has about zero time from when he can get his head around and see the defender coming to when that defender is on him, he reacted instantly by cutting sharply north-south and lowering his front shoulder into contact. The guy bearing down on him was 4 inches shorter and was already lowering his pads for the kill by the time Messam could even see him, he then gets so low in his tackle attempt that he leads with the crown of his helmet and has his eyes off Messam, and yet you freeze frame at the first moment of contact and Messam's front side shoulder is only a little bit higher than the defender's shoulder pads. That's why Messam was able to shake off the tackle and then go on to juke one more defender before being brought down by the third and fourth tacklers.

7. It's well-recognized that the height can be a curse in terms of pad level but it can also be a blessing. You may have a tough time getting your pads low enough to break contact cleanly and create a missed tackle, but defenders also have a tough time stopping you from getting extra yardage after contact because of your linear size. This is why guys like Cam Newton (6'6"), Tim Tebow (6'3") and Brandon Jacobs (6'4") are so effective on the goal line. You're trying to stop those guys from getting that 4 or 5 feet and it's tough. Those three together scored 19 TDs on 39 Goal-to-Go runs this year. That's an insane percentage.

8. Vision and the quickness of his decision making and instincts are some things that intrigue me with Messam. As I said before he makes decisions quickly about how he's going to handle defenders in the open field. But, he also senses the cutback lane pretty well and is able to key on defenders for his cutback reads that are obscured by the trash in front of him. It makes you wonder if it's a coincidence that some of the guys that showed much more aptitude for the cutback game than other ground schemes, guys like Terrell Davis, Arian Foster and Tyrone Wheatley, were a little bit taller players. Not saying they all were, but some of the guys that were questioned about whether they'd be as productive in non-cutback schemes definitely were. Tyrone Wheatley was not at all successful until he got to Oakland and found Bill Callahan's zone cutback scheme. Messam doesn't get cute and always cuts back to the end zone as quickly as he can, shortening the distance to paydirt. Especially look at his work near the goal line, he doesn't mess around. The thing he also does is set up his blocks. Look at the screen play I link below. He runs outside of his blockers so that he can cut back against the grain to the inside of the blockers and create more yardage.

9. Does not show elite level elusiveness, burst or physicality, but has a top gear. The physicality isn't as big a deal to me because like I said, that can develop, and in the mean time his sheer size is going to create bad form tackling from secondary players because many of those guys just don't know how to approach really large high speed ball carriers, hence all the commotion with the new generation of Tight Ends coming out. I was the one that compared him to Lawrence Phillips. Phillips had a little bit better burst and elusiveness than Messam, but Messam may have better vision for the cutback, and of course one would hope he's not going to get arrested as much as Phillips.

10. Coming from the CFL you have plenty of blocking reps. I watch him block and sometimes he doesn't quite explode into the defender the way you need, but he does generally display good form and feet, like he knows what he's doing back there. His size alone lets him do more against bigger D-Ends and Rush LBs than a guy like Reggie Bush, and I think he's a more aware protector than Daniel Thomas. He just needs to be coached out of the flat-footedness you see every now and then as he's leading into contact. Not that you want him to get off balance, either.

Some plays I liked...

Leveling a defender blocking on a WR screen for Adarius Bowman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQbmAzLD6go&feature=player_detailpage#t=102s

Blocking a bigger Rush End long enough to get the pass off:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx7ReW-WTac&feature=player_detailpage#t=77s

More blocking, two plays consecutively:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l97SbR4-eYI&feature=player_detailpage#t=23s

More blocking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOjRrlCte1Q&feature=player_detailpage#t=111s

More blocking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJpdth0L30&feature=player_detailpage#t=245s

Sees the safety through a crowd, makes the cutback for a touchdown:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_xzXsP2vSY&feature=player_detailpage#t=110s

Quick open field decision making and ability to juke defenders one on one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_xzXsP2vSY&feature=player_detailpage#t=178s

Two plays, catch-n-run alluded to before, then a zone cutback TD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_xzXsP2vSY&feature=player_detailpage#t=304s

Quickness of decision-making, sharpness of cuts, pads are literally Ricky Ray's waist level at the cut in backfield:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbWLQ-iQIiE&feature=player_detailpage#t=92s

Another good run, typical stretch play:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbWLQ-iQIiE&feature=player_detailpage#t=139s

Fumble, caught trying do too much after contact. Critical moment of the game. Goes back to character/intelligence issues:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbWLQ-iQIiE&feature=player_detailpage#t=301s

Again if you’re looking for pad level while still navigating traffic, look at this and tell me there’s a problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOJpdth0L30&feature=player_detailpage#t=291s

Another nice run, jukes the defender in the open field after making the right cutback:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ZAINcO580&feature=player_detailpage#t=107s

Another TD off the zone cutback, look how he squeezes that crease:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ZAINcO580&feature=player_detailpage#t=143s

Three plays, a red zone cutback TD, a tackle break for big gain, then finding the crease from nothing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yV2_sxqLj8&feature=player_detailpage#t=56s

A rare screen play, sets up his blockers for the cutback and makes a big gain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yV2_sxqLj8&feature=player_detailpage#t=203s

Really nice play, nice tackle-breaking, stiff-arm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d5YOp7c9n8&feature=player_detailpage#t=90s

Look at the physicality on this run, really nice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d5YOp7c9n8&feature=player_detailpage#t=162s

Incidentally, Adarius Bowman NEEDS to be given a shot at the NFL.

 

Let us know when you do a giant write up !

Great post !

 

Where the rubber meets the road here on the Messam thing is, to me...I'm no longer looking for a draft running back. I would have been before, someone in the mid to late rounds, but I'm not anymore. Maybe that's counting on Jerome Messam a little too much given his character history, but to me it's not just Messam, it's Reggie Bush and Daniel Thomas and Lex Hilliard as well. I just think Jeff Ireland has found a clever way to scratch that one off the list. Fullback is still a need though, because Messam is not a Fullback in this system. Hilliard might be, though.

 

I know the game speed is a tad slower and the CFL can allow for a little more space (IE time to think & process) but I think Messam could be a 3rd-4th round value if he keeps his nose clean and applies himself.

He reminds me quite a bit of Daniel Thomas at K State, which isn't a bad thing IMO.

 

Nice writeup. I made the comment that he looks a little "upright" [when going into a defender]. The pad level might be okay, but I guess I didn't see much of the lowering of the shoulder (like some backs do when contact is about to be initiated). He looks beastly, but I just wonder if that would be an issue (seeming so upright) upon contact? We always hear "lower your shoulder" from coaches, analysts, players. Players in the NFL might see an opportunity to put a hat on the ball to force fumbles. I don't know his fumble history, but maybe you could give us a little insight? Nice agility, esp. for his size. Thanks for the youtube vids!

 

Hopefully DT lite , because it is a bad thing if you moved up to get DT in round 2 imo.

 

"That included a fist-fight with teammate Paris Jackson in the 2010 season that broke Jackson's jaw"

Sad state of affairs when such information makes me root for a signing.

 

I've been pushing Doug Martin, but he seems to be moving up too much and I don't see RB as a big need. I'm inclined to go in with the group we have and leave it at that.

 

I don't agree Rafi, to me the Fb situation is one to watch, and we need at least 1 more Bush Clone type, and 1 more Banger type for camp competition, I love the acquisitions of Thigpen and hopefully Messam, but you need 4 for competition.

 

LOL @ Padre trying to make a porno.

 

I don't disagree that being 'upright' leading into contact would lead to a player being a lot less powerful and a lot less likely to break contact.

But we clearly disagree on whether or not the Edmonton tape shows Jerome Messam being 'upright' leading into contact.

 

Given the conceptual approach of this new coaching staff, and the fundamental changes our new HC plans to implement, Ireland may already be affording himself greater latitude, in how he discerns prospects he might have previously disregarded, purely on account of their character risk, as this latest signing appears to show a new willingness to move in that direction, and to differ questionable cases of miscondust, or character concerns for Philbin to render as he see's fit.

Though still a bit early to speculate, If Sparano could be characterized as more of an assembly line manager, who merely installed any new player Ireland signed, into productive duty on the roster, Philbin hints at a more regimented, Dean of Operations, one that may create a more organized, and disciplined process of quality control, to better train/develop talent, and help root-out, or straighten-out, bad apples.

 

Personally I kind of just assume that Ireland's staff had done some research on Messam for the 2008 Draft, the one where they selected two late round tailbacks Jalen Parmele and Lex Hilliard, and where they decided to stay away from Jerome in 2008, once he became the best player in the CFL whichever scout that stumped for him back then probably won some more people over.

 

You'll get competition from anywhere. We'll add an UDFA at some point and have plenty of competition. And at that position it wouldn't even be a surprise to find an UDFA that ends up being among the best in the league. This just isn't a priority.

 

Lex Hilliard and Steve Slaton are free agents. I wonder if they'll have either back. Currently the tailbacks on roster for 2012 are Reggie Bush, Daniel Thomas, Jerome Messam and Richard Medlin.

 

I think Martin may end up being special. I'm talking a cross between MJD and Ray Rice special. I only take him if I just see him as a that good of a prospect and he's just far and away the BPA. That pick would have nothing to do with need for me.

 

That's what I'm thinking of, we all see CClay and think "tight end" he could easily move to Fb with Lexxy leaving and we add a Te.

 

It could be simply because he is noticeably taller than the other players, and from a biomechanics standpoint, his 'lowering of the shoulder' is not quite as low as some backs whose center of gravity are lower.

I have looked over a couple of the vids again, and maybe it's simply because of the scheme they're running (zone vs power run game), but I cannot say that he consistently lowers his shoulder upon contact. He does, however, consistently stand high upon contact. Maybe that is just his style? Not to say that he is at a disadvantage (because of his size), but I just do not see where he is (again, I say consistently) bruising his way through, leading with the lower shoulder. He seems to slash his way through. I just wonder (from some who scrutinize tape on players) if this could be an issue in the NFL? Just a question.

I guess I really shouldn't ask about the signing because obviously the upper echelons of Miamidom seem to think his style of running could be productive in the prospective system.