1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Peyton Manning & the draft

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by the 23rd, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area
    I believe Peyton will be ready to play in 2012 & Miami will be the beneficiary of the greatest NFL QB to have ever played the game. it is our immediate ticket to the Superbowl.

    with Manning or without him, my picks in rounds 1-4:

    1) Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M
    http://prod.www.dolphins.clubs.nfl....nference/9758ea03-589e-4b3a-8d7d-ec945b0c1100
    2) Peter Konz, Center, Wisconsin
    http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rapid-reports/post/17444195
    3) C. Fleener, TE, Stanford
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd3YzkQPIHg
    4) Malik Jackson, DE/DT, Tennessee
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tevok_ZP4d4


    absolutely, things change quickly on draft boards & I am no pundit, but if this draft were possible, we could address real needs, not just attractive upgrades & focus on coaching up an already excellent roster:

    1) a guarantee @ QB with Manning & we are immediately contenders, Moore is an excellent back-up & Tannehill is allowed a developmental period to learn & perfect his game
    2) a competitive TE opposite Fasano
    3) a pass rush & 4/3 option on defense
    4) the possibility of playing Pouncey @ Pulling-Guard, allowing for Incognito, Jerry, Gardner & Carey to compete on the right



    after round four the best player on board as we draft, if we hadn't bartered them away to secure the first four.
     
  2. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

    4,348
    1,436
    113
    Jan 14, 2009
    I have no problem with the draft picks but I don't think Manning is going to sign with a team that is going to use its first round pick on his eventual replacement. He is trying to make a final run at a championship and a first round QB is not going to help with that.
     
    Ohio Fanatic likes this.
  3. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

    8,365
    4,211
    113
    Jan 5, 2010
    the next dimension
    If we get Manning I want our draft to be either:

    1. Quinton Coples DE
    2. Vontaze Burfict MLB
    3. Markelle Martin FS
    4. Levy Adcock RT
    5. DeVier Posey WR
    6. Chandler Harnish QB
    7. Winston Guy SS
    or
    1. Luke Kuechly MLB
    2. Jonathan Massaquoi DE
    3. Markelle Martin FS
    4. Levy Adcock RT
    5. DeVier Posey WR
    6. Chandler Harnish QB
    7. Winston Guy SS
     
  4. Makados10

    Makados10 Active Member

    302
    170
    43
    Apr 24, 2010
    You don't spend a pick on a QB this draft if you sign Manning and still have Matt Moore on contract for 1 more year.
     
    Larryfinfan likes this.
  5. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area
    1) I totally disagree with the concept of a Manning/Tannehill conflict. if/when Manning comes on board, he will take us to the Superbowl. Tannehill will step up only if Manning steps down & in the duration will benefit from his presence & not having been thrown directly into the fray... much as Rodgers did under Favre.

    2) I think we cannot miss the opportunity to draft a future franchise QB in 2012. we may not be in a position to do so after Manning assumes the reigns. this is the time to definitively fix the QB dilemma in Miami & compete immediately for a SuperBowl. Moore is under contact & may be second tier as a starter but is certainly a first rate back-up. I see no problem carrying three QB's. it is not an uncommon practice.

    3) might also consider the tactical possibilities of having a valid bonafide Receiver/QB in the same game with Manning @ the helm. the possibilities are interesting, if not down right intimidating for a defense. think about it.
     
    pumpdogs likes this.
  6. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

    8,365
    4,211
    113
    Jan 5, 2010
    the next dimension
    My fear is if you get Manning and his best case scenario he starts for 4 years. Then you're left with Tannehill left with 1 year on his rookie contract with really no clue with what you have. Granted hopefully we are a successful team and have the coach's who can identify that Tannehill is "the" guy and they can give a big deal to with 4 years of holding a clip board and 1 year that is first year starting. The same situation happened with Aaron Rogers and it worked out, hopefully we could see the same results but this is the Dolphins.
     
  7. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area
    about this & that:

    1) circumstance is too often confused with the word luck. you create the circumstance for the right mind-set & end result. you create your own luck. that's why you need to make the pick now.

    2)" ...Aaron Rogers and it worked out..." under the guiding hands of who? yes, it was Dr. Phil! and who's OC was Tennehill's HC? yes, you've got it. don't look like a lot of luck involved in this one. it looks like the right move to me.
     
  8. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

    32,073
    22,828
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Concord, MA
    I don't buy the comparison to Rodgers and Manning. THe difference is Manning is looking to leave a team that is likely drafting the 1st round - soon-to-be starter at QB. Why the heck would he go to another team that is about to pull the same exact scenario? answer - he wouldn't. As fans, we'd all love to have the insurance of Manning + Tannehill + Moore, but it's completely unrealistic.

    First: If you bring in Manning, it's because you believe he can play at a decent level for another 2-3 years and Moore then becomes you're very capable backup.
    Secondly: (and more importantly) if you bring in Manning, it's because you believe that you can make a playoff run with Manning. WIth that being said, the smart move is to then draft a high impact player (like a Upshaw or Coples, or a RT) in the first round that can increase your immediate starting lineup.
     
    mbsinmisc likes this.
  9. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Yes you do. Neither of them are answers 3-5 years from now.
     
    the 23rd likes this.
  10. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area

    1) the comparisons are between two different situations: Manning vs Tannehill & Favre vs Rodgers, not Rodgers & Manning

    2) Manning is being pushed out of the game by an opportunistic & detestable Bob Irsay. he's the same guy that moved the Colts (unannounced & in the middle of the night) from Balto to Indianapolis. this is another typical Irsay move: he will pick up the #1 QB in the draft & rebuild around him. the project was only possible because of the injury to Peyton Manning & consequent miserable year of football. he is to opportunism what buzzards are to clean up. undoubtedly, Manning has a few year left, but the chance to invest in a "brand new" Peyton @ a major discount is irresistible for the vulture.

    3) Peyton knows who he's dealing with & hopefully will enter the Miami franchise with the vengeance of a SuperBowl paramount in his mind.
    we have few real needs, this is the time to nail down the most important & illusive one, the Franchise QB.
     
  11. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I just don't see this...

    You bring Manning in and you expect at least 2 seasons of QB calmness on the team. MMoore is a more than capable backup because we WILL need him. Manning will miss time with this injury. How much is anyone's guess.

    Tannehill is a bit of a reach at #8, but I'd take him there IF we don't have Flynn or Manning on board. I would not take him if either are here. Why not bolster the other half dozen holes we have in our roster. We need a speed WR, OT, OG, FS, SS, OLB/DE, TE and various backups as well. Yes, we have some guys coming up that might fill some of those holes, but can we depend on that ?? Gates, Clay, Jerry, Murtha, Garner, Bell, Clemons, Culver, Jones all are questions for various reasons. We are changing schemes on D. Will Misi, Wake, Burnett and Dansby fit in where we need them and who will be our DE in the new scheme ?? Langford (if we retain him) may or may not fit at DE. Do we move Wake back to DE ?? Can Misi fit in at SOLB or MLB? How many holes will changing our schemes create ?? Can we afford the luxury of reaching for a QB in the first round and not picking up someone who can help NOW with one of these holes ??

    We are changing both the offensive and defensive schemes with a new staff. Now we are going to ask Philbin and Sherman, of the Walsh/Holmgren tree to change and adjust their schemes to fit Manning. They'd HAVE to do this, there really wouldn't be a choice. If he signs on here, it'll be with the understanding (and common sense) that we would adjust things to fit his skill set, however, that adjustment is not what our staff's expertise is in...So why did we hire Philbin if we are going to ask him to NOT do what he does as a coach...

    You're comparisons to Rodgers/Favre are a bit off base. First, Rodgers fell into McCarthy's lap and he couldn't resist drafting him. QB was not a need position, however there were already rumblings as to when or if Favre was going to retire...we know now that went on for 4 yrs before he left, but they didn't know that at the time that Rodgers was drafted. Don't get me wrong, Thompson, as it turned out made the right decision, but it was a stroke of luck. Also, Rodgers was weaned as a QB in the system with Ted Tedford (at Cal) that is very similar to Walsh's WCO.

    The biggest difference is that Rodgers at that time was a much better prospect than Tannehill is now. Adding Tannehill is not the same. Tannehill is not likely to be a Rodgers in 4 yrs. Yes, he fits Philbin's preferred WCO, but if we aren't running it when he starts out, in 3 yrs we won't know what we have with Tannehill because Manning will (if everything goes right) have started for that time...

    I can't see any logical reason to add both Manning and Tannehill, and that assumes he's even available at #8...
     
  12. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,501
    6,246
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    Fleener a 3rd rounder? I highly doubt he makes it to the 3rd. Would be nice.
     
  13. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Actually, it's Jim Irsay who is now running the Colts and his father Bob was running things when they moved the franchise. And the move was not unannounced. Only the time and method of the move was unknown when it happened. We all knew the franchise was moving and couldn't financially make it in Baltimore at that time. It was certainly unconventional in nature, but not a shock to anyone following football at the time...

    I don't know about you, but if I were Irsay (either one) or Ross or Hysienga or Joe Robbie, I'd jump on the chance to take the best prospect at QB since John Elway any time I could. It's a smart move as an owner. He's certainly handling the switch over from Manning to Luck in a bad fashion. But it's a move that makes sense. Manning is now damaged goods, no matter how you look at it and at best he has 2 yrs at his level. He's paid the guy $23M to rehab and it hasn't worked so far. He can't risk another $28M and pass up on the opportunity in the draft. He wasn't out there playing or coaching last year when they went 3-13 to earn that #1 overall pick. Any owner/GM/coach who doesn't make that move is stupid and not nearly the businessman that these billionaire owners are reported to be...

    There is no way to blame Irsay for taking Luck...now, if he doesn't take Luck or RG3, then I'd have the guy examined by a psychologist, immediately...
     
  14. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area
    Sceeto:
    you just never know. did my best to see what might/could possibly be available that was a real need according to our draft. maybe, there will be some horse trading. there's always a surprise & if you are in about the right place to draft a need, some negotiations. obviously, it's early yet, things will change. however, if it did work out, we could address real needs, not just possible attractive upgrades & focus on coaching up an already excellent roster:

    1) Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M
    2) Peter Konz, Center, Wisconsin
    3) C. Fleener, TE, Stanford
    4) Malik Jackson, DE/DT, Tennessee

    Larryfinfan:
    The acorn falls not far from the tree. I have little affection or respect for the Irsay's with anything football & obviously see the plight & potential of Peyton Manning in a very different light. everybody has an opinion. what would a horse race be without differing opinion? probably, not much fun!
     
  15. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

    9,313
    4,169
    0
    Nov 11, 2008
    Manning is a pipe dream. Not going to happen.
    Why do you do this to yourself 23. Every offseason you preach big dreams and hopes.
    Only for disappointment and your annual disappearing act during the season.
     
  16. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

    23,388
    16,296
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    Denver, CO
    Fleener won't make the third round. Konz won't make the second round. Jackson would likely be a 4th round pick.
     
  17. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    One thing with Tannehill is if you sign Manning and then draft him, and Manning turns out to be healthy and productive for a few seasons, in the mean time you could always use Tannehill at WR. Had he stayed at WR his entire career at TAMU, he'd have still been a very draftable prospect at that position.
     
  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I don't like Konz at any point. He is good when he is healthy, but has never played an entire injury free season in college.
    If we signed Manning, I'd draft Riley Reiff, Vinny Curry, Kirk Cousins, and Michael Engew with the first 4 picks. I'd also sign Jeff Saturday and Reggie Wayne as UFAs.
    Then, field an online of Long, Pouncey, Saturday, Incognito and Reiff.
    Vinny Curry would be the 4-3 DE bookend to Wake.
    Cousins would be the young developmental QB
    Michael Egnew would be the size/speed mismatch TE
     
  19. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

    2,148
    1,398
    113
    May 3, 2010
    1) Oh brother...comparing Tannehill to Rodgers...really?

    2) Franchise QB? We can find the equivalent of a college QB that only played 20 games at the position, threw 15 interceptions his senior year, and has a broken foot every year in the draft. No sense in wasting the #8 pick in the draft on Tannehill, particularly with Manning and Moore on the roster.

    3) At least the third point is starting to make some sense. If Manning is signed (or Flynn) use the #8 pick to address other areas in need of improvement. WR is definitely one of them, but doubt any of value at #8. Reiff, Brockers, Coples, Upshaw or Ingram much more likely.
     
    padre31 likes this.
  20. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I think Tannehill compares favorably to Rodgers as a prospect. Both were in the prototype range for size and arm strength. I think Tannehill is a little bigger. Both were considered adept at moving in the pocket and making plays outside the pocket, although Tannehill is probably a better athlete. Both were considered very intelligent and good leaders. Rodgers had more experience, but Tannehill operated in a pro-style offense. Both showed natural instincts for the position, but obviously Rodgers was more polished. There were also all the questions about whether Rodgers was just another Tedford QB. I would guess that if they had been in the same draft that there would have been a mix of opinion as to who was the better prospect.
     
    the 23rd likes this.
  21. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area
    fair & balanced
     
  22. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    5,185
    2,907
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    Jeff ireland is never going to use a draft pick on tannehill if he signs manning.Personally I think manning is done but if they sign him his window is two years top and they are going to sign players to win now.
     
  23. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    I'm curious. Are you just completely ignoring the fact that Peyton is trying to recover from a severe nerve injury and has really shown no tangible proof that he has made any progress at this point? Because it seems like you are largely assuming that <1% chance that he recovers will actually happen.
     
  24. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area
    pure speculation & wishful thinking
    having said that
    1) there is no evidence that he will not make a complete recovery
    2) & every indication Irsay wants to rebuild around what many consider to be the less expensive "second coming" of Peyton Manning in this years draft
    3) who am I to assume anything? I'm just another poster who wants the best for his team
    4) my opinion: sign Manning, draft Tannehill & close Peter Konz @ Center in the second or move up if necessary to get him
     
  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Really? No "tangible proof"?

    How do you know this?

    I ask simply because those outside of his circle have no idea where he is at in his rehab, all we know, and can say with certainty is he is working out with Reggie Wayne, everything else is rightfully, suspect.
     
  26. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,843
    10,283
    113
    Dec 18, 2007
    Columbia, South Carolina
    I don't see how Manning would have any issue with us drafting a Qb in the first round. The deal with Indy is his bonus of like 28 million that he's due this year. If he was still under contract for a reasonable price we could see him play in Indy with Luck waiting for a year or two, it wouldn't be the first time a Qb has had to wait his turn. The situation is unique because of Manning's injury and the contract, if he signs here he'd be the dumbest person alive to think we wouldn't be drafting his replacement sooner than later, he's what 36 and hurt? Its a non issue and would have no impact whatsoever on him signing here or not.
     
    the 23rd likes this.
  27. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I believe that Indy is still the most likely landing spot for Manning. As I've been saying for a while, I think that the most likely way this plays out is that Manning is released, but can't throw. Then he and Irsay hug it out and Manning signs an incentive based deal in Indy. This allows Irsay to not be the guy that ran Manning off and it allows Manning to play his whole career with just one team. I think those things are important to both of those guys. Indy does draft their QB of the future, but while Luck is the most likely pick, I don't think it's a slam dunk. I think that trading back could allow Indy to restock around Manning and still take their QB of the future. I also think that behind the scenes Luck could force the issue. The Lucks and Mannings are friends. I get the impression they want to avoid this becoming a competition. I really feel that Luck is unhappy that Indy has the top pick. I also think he wants to play right away far more than he cares about being the top pick. Even if there is no trade, I could see this being spun as "we just had RG3 as the top player on our board". That's not even that far fetched. Just today I read an article with an un-named NFL scout saying that if he had the pick and needed a QB he'd take RG3 over Luck.
     
  28. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

    9,173
    2,398
    113
    Apr 20, 2009
    Tampa Area
    Rafael
    I see where your coming from, a legitimate position
    having said that
    1) the Irsays are not all about the right thing to do or friendships when it comes to their NFL dealings. it's simply all about money with them & they will not allow Luck to slip through their fingers or create a QB controversy over Manning.
    2) I think Manning would like another Superbowl ring & his best shot for that would be in Miami not Indianapolis.
    3) I believe it is in everyone's best interest if Manning becomes a Miami Dolphin: Peyton wins, the Colts win & Miami wins. just another biased thought.

    just have to wait & wee how things work out...
     
  29. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I get the impression Irsay cares quite a bit about being liked. I also think that not creating a rift between your customers and the team is good way to protect your future earnings.

    I don't agree that Peyton to Miami is in everybody's best interests. Philbin was hired to bring system to Miami. Signing Manning and giving him the best chance to win would involve delaying putting in that system and getting players to fit that eventual system.
     
    KB21 likes this.
  30. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    As you astutely mentioned before , plus you have some cat wild options don't you ? ;)
     
  31. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    I shared this sentiment a couple of weeks ago as well but reports are starting to surface that Payton is starting to make some serious progress. I take Mort with a grain of salt for the most part but given his documented friendship with Archie Manning and this report, I'm starting to think Payton may be good do go sooner than I had anticipated.

    http://thefinsiders.com/podcasts/2012/mort-talks-fins-peyton-manning-more

    If that is the case and the Phins do get Manning then all that would be left to do would be to draft Tannehill and then sign Saturday, Wayne and Mathis in FA.

     
  32. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,652
    67,546
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    I might be misinterpreting something here Rafs, but if you don't think he will be able to throw then why would Indy trade down and try to accumulate talent to surround him?..
     
  33. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    You don't think Manning would be willing to run a WCO for a couple of years? I find it hard to believe it would take him more than a week to learn it.
     
  34. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Come on , you can decide it isn't right for you , or your preferred option , but if you state <1% chance , please also state it is only your opinion as a fan , as you don't have knowledge to indicate it is that at all. You can say there is , will be obstacles to overcome but no one with ANY insight to the situation is inferring there is anywhere near less than 1% chance Peyton plays again.
     
  35. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    For the PR. Also there's always a chance he recovers. I actually think it will play out similar to when Marino had his pinched nerve. Marino at times looked really good. That first game he had a 104 rating. I think he had over 100 rating three times that year. Those great games were enough to convince the team that he was back. I mean he Dan Marino, arguably one of the greatest QBs ever. Even 80% or 90% of Marino was better than most QBs in the league, right?. Unfortunately, between those +100 rated games he stunk. His arm strength was inconsistent. He also missed about 5 games. In the end though it was probably necessary. If not, many fans would never have forgiven the team for running Marino off. Some people still complain that JJ did that. But most know that Marino was done. I think that is what Indy will have to do. But Indy might be lucky for two reasons. One is that they have a chance to add the successor right away, whether it's Luck or another prospect. Second is that Manning's injury is much worse so he may end up just retiring.
     
  36. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I doubt that would be the plan. You put Manning in the best situation to succeed and that would be in the offense he's used to.
     
  37. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I think that if you talk to any people who have seen patients that don't have immediate nerve regeneration you'll find that the chances of 100% return of nerve function is <1%. In fact, I've never heard of case where it's happened. All the cases being referred to as successes involved situations where the nerve started regenerating in the first couple of weeks. That simply doesn't seem to be the case here.
     
  38. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    What are the differences between what Manning is used to running and the WCO? Is it more than terminology?
     
  39. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I truly respect your postings , so with respect please let me know one legitimate source that currently is stating Peyton has a less than one % chance to play again . If there is and you or anyone wants to provide appropriate betting odds also let me know .
     
    padre31 likes this.
  40. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    I also do not see how a Peyton Manning that will never be 100% again is beneficial for Miami other than the fact that his name will sell tickets. That name value will wear off quickly when fans are watching Matt Moore play because Peyton cannot go.
     

Share This Page