TBH, have not watched either one of them play, just Coples a few times, in 2010, he does remind of Julius Peppers but JPep also played on a good UNC BBall team, he was one heck of an athlete. So IDK, not my specialty, there are hundreds of draft heads who can do all that for me and a scouting dept in Davie, why study these guys for hours when I have things to do?
I'd think that'd be more along the lines of moving Burnett to Will, Dansby to Sam, and Kuechly playing the middle. You could still use Koa Misi in certain packages or even line him up at DE in certain sub packages. I think Kuechly would be in play if Miami is really trying to move to a traditional 4-3. If they're still set on playing the 3-4 hybrid, then I think you'd have to look at Upshaw or Ingram if you're going to look for a 'backer at 8. Now, with the recent rumors of Miami potentially targeting Mario Williams to help facilitate the move to a traditional 4-3, it wouldn't surprise me if his signing put Kuechly squarely in play at the 8th pick, assuming QB has also been addressed, meaning Manning or Flynn.
Why? Kuechly does not play into all in strategy, his position makes as much impact as the DT's in front of him allow him to make and if one thinks about it, he'd be off of the field in nickel packages, so why exactly do you spend the #8 on a MLB again?
well, thats why I disagreed with you in the beginning, if Manning is signed then you would think you would go offensive with that 8th pick, however, with Blackmon off the board, there doesn't seem to be any other offensive skill player or right tackle worthy of that pick, and why use your first round pick on defense when you just signed Peyton Manning, and if thats the case, why not trade down where there is some offensive value, alongside picking up another high draft choice, then flipping that into two players that could play right away..
You trust Karlos Dansby to be the Mike in a true 4-3? There's worse options, but Miami could do better. As for Kuechly. He was recruited as a safety to BC, and is probably better than any of Miami's linebackers in coverage. He'd absolutely be a 3-down linebacker. Not sure why you'd think he'd be off the field. I think you can certainly trust him there playing behind some of the current players on Miami's D-line. Perhaps if they took him they'd go after someone like Brandon Thompson or Jerel Worthy in round 2. For the record, I'm not advocating I'd take Kuechly if I were Miami, but he's a damn good player. I'd prefer they take Upshaw or Fletcher Cox at that spot provided the QB spot has been addressed already. If not, then it's obvious that pick's should be used to draft or trade up for a QB.
Because at that spot he just might give you the most production and ability as anyone else, because he won't come out in the nickel, he's an excellent pass defending linebacker..
How long did it Rey M to be the starting MLB in Cinci? 2 yrs? 3? There is more to coverages than running fast, as you know, and MLB just do not make that large of an impact R4, seriously, who started at MLB for the Giants? The real answer to that is "it didn't matter who started, their passrush made up for it". Someone ponted out Mayo, as fine an athlete as you'll find at MLB, pats had no passrush, he did not effect the outcome of that game. We want players who effect outcomes, not good players, but ones who the opponent must stop if they do nothing else, in order to have a chance to win the game.
IIRC, he had like 150 tackles, 2 sacks, and he's 6'2 237, at #8 overall? We can do far better than that, keep in mind Willis came off at #10 overall, 6'4 255 or so, and ran a 4.4, THAT is an impact player.
Maualuga is a bad example. He's had injuries, off-field issues, other players at different spots get injured forcing him to move, etc. and so forth. Not to mention Dhani Jones was on the roster already when Maualuga was drafted. As for MLBs, Ray Lewis, Patrick Willis, they're both pretty impactful. I'm not putting Kuechly anywhere near those two, but for the potential scheme, he's a fit. He'd do more for what Coyle's defense will do than Koa Misi ever will, put it that way. As far as a comparison to the Giants, the Dolphins don't have anywhere near the number of quality pass-rushers the Giants do. I'd be willing to be though, if the Giants had Luke Kuechly on their roster, he'd have been out there before Chase Blackburn was. As for Cincinnati's current D. They've done quite well without a dominant DT in front of Maualuga. Geno Atkins is an outstanding penetrator - I think Fletcher Cox is a nice comparison to a prospect in this year's draft. Domata Peko is a passable starter, but he's not as good as Randy Starks or Paul Soliai. Cincinnati's DE's had a big impact on Maualuga's play this year as they were damn good at setting the edge and funneling plays to him.
Kuechly came in at 242lbs. http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/ScoutingCombine/positions/ILB.php Patrick Willis must have shrunk because he's only 6'1" 240lbs. http://www.nfl.com/player/patrickwillis/2495781/profile
If Pat Willis was in this draft he wouldn't go 10, he'd be the first defensive player off the board for me, the draft is about maximizing value to build my team, and to trust the eyes that they can do a better job then the other guy if given more options { in certain scenarios, my two players will be better than your one}.. In a trade down scenario if I could get Kuechly and another player, ive got to think hard on that..Its about knowing the talent that will be available at 8, and seeing if it stacks up with what I can get later.. So what I'am getting from you is that no matter what, we have to use that pick on the best defensive player available??
yeah not in favor of bringing manning to miami i would rather find a franchise qb and build a team that has a window of a decade not 2 or 3 years. if we sign manning like someone said earlier basically its all chips in the center you are going to for it all within probably a 2 or 3 year window, bringing in aging vets to try and make that run so if it fails we are back to square one.
Peter Konz, not Kontz, will be long gone before our 2nd round pick. I'm not sold on him anyway. He has missed time with injuries every year in college. What makes you think he can all the sudden become a durable pro?
To answer the original post...here is what I'd do if we signed Manning. I'd sign Jeff Saturday as a UFA. He was ranked as the 5th best Center in the league last season by PFF, even while playing on a crap Colts team. I'd sign either Reggie Wayne or Pierre Garcon to be the #2 WR Regardless of Manning, but no matter who is going to be our QB, I'd sign Reggie Nelson to play FS, move Chris Clemons to SS, and cut Y Bell. In the draft I'd go something like this: 1. Riley Reiff to play RT, with the line consisting of Long/Pouncey/Saturday/Incognito/Reiff 2. Vinny Curry to be the bookend DE opposite Wake 3. Alameda Ta'amu to help replace the loss of Soliai and Langford in free agency. 4. Michael Egnew, to compliment Fasano at TE. He is a tall, athletic, fairly fast TE who caught 140 passes over the past two seasons at Missouri. 5. Quentin Saulsberry, additional depth at G/C, and possible future starter. 6. Russell Wilson, QB, to develop for the future. 7. Devon Wylie, WR/PR. Adds a lot of speed and good potential to be a dynamic punt returner and future slot receiver.
Realistically I would hate to see us sign Manning because he is a short term solution to a long term problem that will still be there at the end of that short term! I could really care less about his health at the same time for the sake of what I really want to do I would certainaly play the "I want Peyton Manning here now!" game. We have just gone thru this very same situation just 4 years ago and it got us 3 years of 7-9, 7-9, and 6-10 after landing a "Short term solution" and winning the Division! My hope is that we play the "I W P M H N" game good enough that Washington takes that bait and runs with it, the same goes for Matt Flynn. jm2c
Willis was 6-1 242 and ran a 4.37 and played in the SEC. Rey M is simply a fairly typical example of the learning curve a ILB/MLB has in the NFL R4. I've read that Reif is being looked at more as a Guard.
Well, we'll agree to disagree on Maualuga then. I'm not sure how you can call it typical when he was forced to play Sam for two years due to injuries to him and other players on the roster. I'll concede that Cincinnati hung on to Dhani Jones a year to long and that probably stunted Maualuga's transition. And this year he played the last 8-10 games on a very bad ankle. Do keep in mind he was a mid-2nd round pick. Not a top 10 or 15 guy like Willis or Lewis.
I was never a big Rey M fan. I thought he was a bit over rated coming out. However, I see Kuechly as potentially another Zach Thomas. I think you put him in the middle and end up with Dansby and Burnett in their more natural positions. I think Kuechly is a three down guy that anchors that middle for 10 years. I don't think he covers as well as Willis. I don't generally like to take ILBs that early though. They would have to be so elite that they have more impact than that position generally does. I don't have Kuechly as that much of a sure thing so I would be more comfortable taking him after a small trade down. And that assumes that we took care of the QB position already in FA or through some other means.
I never liked Laurinitis much as an NFL prospect. I didn't think he was instinctive enough in the passing game. I projected him as a two-down LB in the pros. I see Kuechly as much more instinctive overall, especially against the pass. That's why he reminds me more of Zach Thomas.
I thought he relied on his athleticism to make plays in the passing game rather than his instincts. I didn't think he would be able to do that in the pros. I see that as the opposite of Kuechly. He relies on his instincts to make plays against the pass rather than his athleticism.
The interesting thing about Kuechly to me is that he's still relatively young in terms of playing the LB position. He played at St. Xavier, a high school powerhouse here in Cincinnati, and was a safety. St. X played a 3-3-5, so he played that "rover" position, but was still pretty raw when he got to BC. I'd imagine he can keep on improving with experience and with coaching. I think the Laurinaitis comparison is pretty fair. He's not as physical as Laurinaitis, but I think he's more instinctive, and I believe he's a more fluid athlete than Laurinaitis. I think if you plug in Kuechly in a defense like Laurinaitis has been in in St. Louis, Kuechly would flourish.
I'm pretty sure both use a combination of instincts and athleticism. Interesting too that so far Kuechly is working out better than Laurinaitis did.
Who doesn't? I never said that Laurenitis had no instincts. I actually liked him as a second round value. I just see Kuechly's instincts in the passing game as better. I see that as more valuable in today's NFL so I have a higher grade on him.
I think that if you go the short-term route with Manning, you have to go 'all in'. You have to give him the best chance possible to win in that small window or otherwise what's the point? Drafting for the future does not do that. Forcing him to learn a new system doesn't do that.
If we land Manning then I think Michael Bush and Robert Meachem would be great adds for a reasonable amount. Might save us enough to still get Finnigan too.
We sign Manning, the O is not ready to start the season, since Manning won't be ready until August at the earliest (thus, no offseason...again), Manning is hurt in the first couple of games and MMoore has another surprising season, although not good enough to get us to the playoffs, mainly due the slow start from the Offense. Fans are calling for both Ireland and Philbin to be fired and in early October, Ross flies his jet to Carolina to talk to Cowher who rejects him after 10 days of suspense and wild media speculation. Just another normal Fins season...
I'll bite, since it's a hypothetical afterall. We sign Manning and I laugh maniacally as he picks apart the Jets TWICE this year. The I squeal in glee as he leaves Revis crying like a little girl on the sideline, wondering 'WTF just happened here?'.
And since when has signing free agents to plug holes and make a superbowl run ever worked out? Remember the 1995 Miami Dolphins, or any of Daniel Snyder's Redskins teams? In 1995, that's basically what Miami did. They went all in to win one for Don and Dan, and look at where it got them.
Well, it would also mean we would be on the mid 90's/Carl Peterson Chiefs' path, they went OL heavy iirc, which would make some sense b/c no matter who the Qb is, the better the OL the better they shall do.
IMO, what fooked Miami up in 1995 was that gawd awful draft. Billy Milner in round 1? I've never been so pissed off at a Miami 1st rounder. Well, we were later able to trade him for Troy Drayton, but still we passed up guys like Derrick Brooks and Bobby Taylor, when we took Milner and Andrew Greene. If we just absolutely had to take a tackle and guard, Blake Brockermeyer and Brenden Stai were ours for the taking in the 1st and 2nd, and they both at least had fairly long careers as decent starters. The day after that draft, I was on the phone with Frank Coyle of draftinsiders.com and he was laughing at the stupidity of Miami for drafting two busts. I was trying to put a positive spin on it, but he said you just wait and see, those were two terrible picks. The rest of the draft was nothing to write home about either. Norman Hand was one of the picks, but then he wasn't kept long enough to pan out.
