Well, what makes Kravitz a solid, independent source ?? He's a reporter...would you believe it if it came from Salguero ?? I just can't see that any info out there is credible until it comes from a HC/GM that he's much better. No, I didn't believe Kravitz 'noodle arm' remark because he's not a scout/coach/GM that knows what to look for IF in fact he did see Manning throw...all the info out there is second and third hand info. Manning will have to 'show' teams where he's at. It won't be about a guy who talked to a guy who thinks he saw Manning throw a pass... Look, I hope the man is better. I hope he's back to where he was prior to 2010, but I can't believe anything out there right now until we see some proof...not 'sources'... The real problem is that even if a coach came out and said "This guy is back to normal", can we really believe it given the type of injury. there is precedent that coming back from this injury can/may waffle from game to game and day to day...We won't see that in the next 10 days...
He's not the solid independent source though . He previously wrote that Peyton had a "noodle arm" and now is reporting that "Hearing from multiple sources that Peyton is in Florida and throwing much much better,'' Indianapolis Star columnist Bob Kravitz tweeted. I would like to know the sources but reporters are prone to keeping things tight , the point being he is contradicting the noodle arm reports , which MAY mean he feels either progress is being made or the previous reports were too negative and not true. The point is or one of them is the detractors regarding this scenario keep saying no positives are happening , and if we hear a positive report it is from some Peyton flunky. Well those things are not happening as there are more and more reports of progress , of improvement and from independent sources. Take it fwiw , but when asked for contradictory reports to the negative ones and those are being provided , well ... they got their wish. Up to them to be open minded or not .
Mainly I agree with this. Anyone ever played the game telephone? You stand in a line and whisper a sentence to the next person, who repeats what they heard, so forth. Starts off with "Manning standing on sideline eating, noodles in arm" ends up with "Manning has a noodle arm" People pass around what they hear, put their own spin on it, pass it on to someone else who puts another spin on it. Soon we realize Manning was throwing touch passes to warm up for a harder session. Or that he's throwing a bit harder turns into he is throwing near 100%. Teams will indeed need to see for themselves, however it is fun to speculate what might happen.
And you are SURE you know that Peyton will demand something and what that something will be?! Hmm ....... or that Joe Philbin has, in fact signed off on Matt Flynn? Where is your info coming from?
the only way I would sign Peyton Manning is to guarantee a possible SuperBowl offensive line-up for 2012 & that is exactly what would happen.
Well , we now have a report on NFL network from Albert Breer. He states , three people with knowledge of his rehab say he has been throwing in South Florida for a few weeks and progressively getting better and getting stronger with his grip and tricep the areas affected by the nerve damage. The rate of recovery is unclear but all three people said he would be ready for the start of the season. So we still don't have reports of improvement and should just close the door on the thought of signing the most legitimate free agent option to improve Miami's Super Bowl chances . No track record of success , a history of being unmotivated as a player , doesn't understand offenses or knows how to read defenses , a follower not a leader , easy to see why Miami should just not even consider the option to sign him right? We still need to see more , but from what we have seen so far I absolutely would have the signing of Peyton Manning as my number one priority until it is proven it is not a prudent option. Nothing so far has shown that imho.
What about all the reports prior to the 2011 season that were saying that Peyton was progressing well and would be ready by the start of the season?
they changed the date on Manning, moving it up to May 2012, according to today's paper 1) don't think they are even considering moving up to snatch RG3, but I would support the move to resolve the issue 2) don't believe Flynn was ever legitimately in the mix & shouldn't be, he is not the the proven bull @ any level having said that 3) with Manning we make an immediate run on the Superbowl; Tannehill will secure the future of the Franchise Manning/Tannehill in 2012
Worst arguement ever. So since there were previously poor reports all reports in the future must also be wrong? No, it doesn't mean they are right or wrong. They are two seperate reports. If we find out the world is REALLY going to end in 2013 I guess we should ignore it because of all those world ending in 2012 reports.
The naysayers wanted positive reports from arm's length people and they are getting them . You can want more proof ( as do I and I am sure every team does ) you can think a rookie QB gives Miami a better chance to win a Super Bowl , you can think a 27 year old back up unproven QB does that as well , but you wanted reports of progress , you have them. You said less than 1% chance to play again , have those odds changed? If they haven't is there a wager? I am not guaranteeing that Peyton will be 100% , but if you ask me if I want a 90% plus Peyton ? absolutely , do I think that is the best option to win now , again unequivocally yes. Do I also think as Kurt Warner said he gives Miami the best chance to win ? 1000% yes . Again as I have stated early and often , signing Peyton doesn't limit you to two years , he wants to play longer and it also doesn't stop you , as I have been proposing from signing a QB such as Tannehill at 8 , or drafting another QB in whatever round you have a true conviction on , whether that is round 2 or 3 this year or in future years. No one has to commit to anything right now , and no one is being asked to do that right now are they? yet you want to close the door , I don't and I also am sure the Dolphins aren't closing any doors as well. That I believe is astute management.
Peyton is arguably the greatest QB in the history of the game having said that the greatest of his many attributes & intangibles that he brings to the table is attitude: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...set=a.267520961246.143595.262842176246&type=1 only someone of Peyton Manning's stature & leadership can fix what's broken in Miami the essentials & the intangibles Peyton in 2012
I bet the Colts were thinking that when he coaxed them into giving him that 5 year, $90 million contract this past year. "Oh yea. I'm throwing the ball well and making signficant progress. I will be ready to go by the start of the season. Let's sign that contract." While we wait out Peyton Manning due to his name value though, we end up passing on a young, potential franchise quarterback who is familiar with Joe Philbin and this offense. Basically, instead of making a move that makes sense and secures the position long term, allowing the team to use their first round pick to address another need, we want to bank on this blind hope that Peyton's nerve is going to respond in a way it hasn't with three prior surgeries. I'm going to see if I can find some video of Dan Marino from that 1999 season just to give you guys a reminder of what a quarterback with a dead arm looks like.
That , of course , isn't true and I do think you know that but are reticent to admit differently. So be it , if you are wrong , you will be , as you have been in the past. We all have mind you , so no harm in that , just harm in not adjusting views as the need arises. As you well know many medical professionals are wrong , many initially provide the wrong prognosis . Some never provide the right answer , it is no different than virtually ever other profession. A very respected physician once told me , remember that 50% of doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class . We don't pass on anybody , if Miami feels Flynn is a better option than they will pursue him . Now it is likely Flynn could be amenable to signing with Miami , but that isn't guaranteed. Again, we don't have a drop dead deadline do we? I have not heard one mention of that from any player in this discussion. It also isn't Peyton's "name" it is his proven ability , and while 27 isn't old , neither is it young. By the way , has anyone from Miami told you they rate Flynn as a sure thing? If he is one ,then no worries , let's sign him and get the Super Bowl parties planned. I wonder where that less than 1% chance came from , and where it has gone??? You're arguments are losing focus and while it is your right to have your opinion about what you want or prefer , that in no way makes you or them correct. Miami hasn't had to exercise some warrant to stay in the hunt to sign Peyton , they haven't had to pay any holding fee , or trade any draft choices . Of course , it is all conjecture at this point as no team can come out and actively court Peyton. Also , this may or may not be a proper decision but Mike Mayock has stated he prefers Tannehill over Flynn , so you are saying to pass the "perhaps" better QB and not draft Tannehill. If Miami feels Flynn is a better option than Peyton I am more than ok with that , I really am , however I am not ok if Miami would not make every effort to see if Peyton would be healthy enough to play and play for Miami. Luckily , or rather thankfully Miami will do their due diligence imo.
Whatever. Waiting on Manning means that we are waiting till June, July, perhaps even August to see if he can play. Guess what. I highly doubt Matt Flynn is going to wait till June to sign with anyone, so while we dick around with Manning's injury, we will lose the best free agent quarterback on the market.
Second best if Peyton is released , and it isn't close. As mentioned Mayock prefers Tannehill over Flynn , if he is right then Flynn would be at best option number 3 for me personally. If he is throwing at 80% now or close to it , for where he was is a hugely positive sign imo. If that is close to accurate Miami or other teams will have a pretty clear idea well before the draft for instance , and probably within a month.
Totally agree .... an 80% throwing Peyton Manning, in early March, is a much better play at QB than a 100% Matt Flynn anytime and if you throw in Tannehill at 8 I would be gushing like I had just won the Lotto!
The only reasons I would be against signing Manning is if he's not healthy obviously and if it prevents us from drafting a franchise Qb. Manning if healthy could give us 2-3 years of contention but we need to be drafting a young Qb to groom regardless of whether or not we have Manning.
Exactly how do you figure that Flynn is the BEST free agent QB on the market. Just because he had two NFL starts in the last four years certainly doesn't mean that he can be an effective every game starter for an NFL team. Right now the Saints have yet to reach agreement with Brees and if they don't franchise him, I would certainly consider a much better free agent prospect than Flynn. There has also been no word from Philbin that he is even interested in the Dolphins signing Flynn. This may be because he doesn't want to talk about a player who is still the property of the Packers at the moment, or it could be that he just doesn't think that Flynn is the long term answer for the Dolphins at the QB position. Matt Flynn was a seventh round selection in the NFL draft for a reason four years ago. The fact that there are reports that the Redskins, Dolphins and Browns are all trying to move up in the draft to select RG3, while there is little talk about these same teams having much interest in signing Flynn if he is a free agent, should concern those who seem to think that Flynn is a future star in the NFL. I also find it interesting that the Dolphins are more interested in trying to sign an injured and old Peyton Manning, while Flynn only appears to be an option if Manning opts to retire or sign with another team. Maybe this is all a smoke screen by the Dolphins and they are really interested in signing Flynn, but until they actually express interest in him as their future QB, I just have to question if Philbin has told Ireland and Ross that he doesn't think Flynn has what it takes to be a long term starter in the NFL.
And Tom Brady was a 6th round pick for a reason, Kurt Warner was undrafted for a reason, Marc Bulger was a 7th round pick for a reason, and so on. Matt Flynn has been wildly successful when given the chance to play in Green Bay. He has put up numbers that equal the numbers Aaron Rodgers has put up over his career there. The guy has terrific accuracy, great feet, and is a good decision maker who can extend the play with his legs. If Miami legitimately sees Peyton as their first choice, then it is one that is owner driven.
here is another one, Peyton Manning working out at Duke, throwing hard...with Video !!! http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7...peyton-manning-throws-duke-university-workout
If they think that Flynn can be great then he is going to be the first option just for the sole fact he can give you more years and already knows Philibins offense. If we pursue Peyton over Flynn that in my eyes means that they really arn't that in love with Flynn.
It is quite obvious you are sold on Flynn, but the question is, are the Dolphins interested in Flynn at all? It seems to me that their first option appears to be Manning and their second option is trading up to try and draft RG3. It would appear to me that if they thought as highly about Flynn as you do, there would be a lot more talk about Flynn coming out of Dolphins camp. Flynn may end up being as good as think he is, but it sure seems to me that the Dolphins don't view him as highly as you do. As I stated earlier, this may all be a smoke screen by the Dolphins and they may really want Flynn. We shall see how this all works out over the next few weeks. I just know that I certainly won't be surprised if the Dolphins don't go after Flynn in free agency. As far as the Manning choice being owner driven. I am sure the signing of Manning would increase season ticket sales for the 2012 far more than if Flynn is the QB signed. I just don't think Ross would attempt to hurt the long range future of the Dolphins by forcing his football people to take Manning, if Philbin and Ireland are convinced that Flynn will develop into a top QB in the NFL. The fact that the Dolphins are more interested in Manning and RG3 certainly seems to show that Ireland and Philbin are not as enamored with Flynn as you are.
I don't agree with the "hate" characterization. I'm a big Manning fan. He's one of my favorite players. I just believe that he is a bad bet and a bad idea for this franchise. My reasons for that belief are based on logic and information, not hate. 1. I have seen many people with this kind of injury (and spoken to medical professionals as well) and when there is a delay in the nerve generation, I've never heard of of one coming back at 100%. Not one, so maybe Manning is the exception, but I see any expectation that he'll be the old Manning as a complete long shot. 2. Those who do recover, generally have inconsistent strength. I've provided medical reasons for this in past posts, so I won't go into it again, but the upshot is that it's something you can't adjust to. As we saw with Marino and I've seen with others, you'll seem all the way back one day (or one play) and have almost no strength the next. So reports and videos of a good day don't have any relevance for me. I find those 90% of Manning is better than most QBs to completely ignorant to the point. I fully expect that if we sign Manning he'll come in and light it up at first. And people will be saying he's back. We saw that with Marino, who blew it up with a +100 rating that first week. Then he was up and down all season and missed several games. 3. Even if Manning beats the odds and comes back good enough, we probably don't win. Reality is that it takes teams/coaches time to adjust to adjust to new systems and new players. There will be an adjustment period that will almost assuredly result in this team falling short this year. Sure you can pull a SF, but reality is that is a rare occurrence. When it happens you need a lucky confluence of events both inside and outside of your team. Fans think that the adjustments are just about terminology, but there's more than that. Yes, all teams have the same plays in the play book, but the philosophies and goals vary. It's also about which plays you use and how you adjust off of those plays. It also takes time for players and coaches to get on the same page and for coaches to figure out how to put their players in position to succeed. 4. You can get past that adjustment period, but it takes time. That is something Manning doesn't have. I hear people using a Farve comparison and I see it as ridiculous. By all accounts Favre is considered an anomaly. Realistically, QBs retire between 36 and 38 the vast majority of the time. Those are the ones who don't have major injuries at age 36. If Manning does make it back from this injury, odds are that he will still retire in a couple of years. 5. Where does that leave Miami then? Well now we have to adjust the system again. IMO the dynasties are built on continuity. The poor teams are built on constant reboots and "win now" strategies. We'll have another adjustment period. Then people will start saying that Philbin has to win or he should be replaced. We then start the cycle again with another reboot. I see this as the most likely outcome of bringing in Manning. And that will be the case even if Manning beats the odds on his recovery. I see a SB win as the least likely outcome. There's more to it as well, in that you brought in a coaching staff to bring in a specific system and then saddle him with a QB that is used a different system and you can't develop. I think that undercuts the coach you just hired. To give Manning any chance you have to give him players who are familiar with his system and familiar with him. So that further undercuts any building for the future. So I don't hate Manning, but I would hate the decision to bring him to Miami at this time.
I'd sign Peyton Manning if he had a glass eye, and he'd still be better than anyone else we've had since Marino. And probably better than Flynn. If Chad Pennington could come onto a 1-15 team with a new staff and go 11-5, then Manning could come onto a 6-10 team and take it to the playoffs. For 15 straight years, 5-6 new teams have made the playoffs every single year. It doesn't take much.
Hmmm a link I posted yesterday said to expect video of Peyton throwing to surface soon , this is soon !
Or, everything that is being said about Manning and Griffin III is a smoke screen to throw off the fact that the Dolphins are set on signing Matt Flynn when free agency opens. If Miami lets it be known that they want Flynn, then Green Bay would franchise him easily.
No. Flynn is a young quarterback who is entering his prime years. There will be no need to invest a 1st round pick into the quarterback position if you get him. Unlike Peyton Manning, Matt Flynn is a long term fix for the position. Miami will get more than 2-3 years of play out of Matt Flynn. At his age, they could get 10 years out of him by the time he is Peyton's age. I have no problem with taking a late round guy as a developmental quarterback if we sign Matt Flynn, but there is no need to do so. By taking Peyton Manning, you paint yourself into a corner. You have to address the future of the position soon, because Peyton doesn't have much left in the tank if he is even able to play again.
I’m very surprised by your response. From what I’ve read, you have Tannehill graded out as the 2nd best QB prospect in this year’s draft, while most others have RGIII rated as a can’t miss franchise guy. On the surface anyway, Flynn is a much better option than any of the other FA. On the other hand, Flynn doesn’t have the arm talent or physical skills of Tannehill. In the past I would agree that Tannehill is not worthy of the pick but the new CBA has put him in play IMO. As an added plus, he probably would be drafted as a WR. Just sayin'.
I do have Tannehill rated that highly, however at that point it becomes about maximizing resources. Either Flynn or Tannehill are young guys you build around. If you believe in Flynn then use the draft to build around him. If you believe in Tannehill then use FA to build around him. I do think your point about the rookie salary cap makes it more plausible, but it still wouldn't be my first choice.
There is only one reason we may sign Manning...Ross. He wants a name brand guy so badly he can taste it. He's driving all this and it's not good for the Fins....sure, Manning may have a couple of years left or he may not. We likely won't know that until after he is signed though and we may have couple of good years and Ross will get more butts in JRS, however, how does that bode for decisions going down the road. We know he's inclined to meddle (nixing the Palmer courtship and the Orton courtship). Those, from the outside were good decisions, IMHO. However, the more he meddles the worse off for this franchise. Ross needs to stay out of the equation on all football matters. He's not a GM, he's a real estate mogul...stick to what you know...
is the glass half full or half empty? do we pull the trigger or wait for another beast to pass our way next or the year after or the year after that? how hungry are you? ready to go for the big brass ring? yes, & if a BullFrog had wings he wouldn't bump his azz. time to take some chances, there are no guarantees in life. got to ask your self: "you feeling lucky punk?" Manning/Tannehill2012, year of the Franchise QB
