No, you didn't explain anything. You only state the study was crap because the study doesn't fit your view, and also because your mind is in some warped world where medical facts do not apply to everyone.
Look KB, I am statistically driven. My backround is in mathematics. Words to live by: "Sample sizes that are small, are small, and non-representative sample sizes are worthless." Again. Find me a study that pertains to pro bowl caliber performing QB's with that injury.
All you need to know is the history with Microfracture surgery in the NBA, to see how ridiculous any pronouncement based on a tiny sample sized study is worthless.
Bert Jones, similar situations, he lasted 4 games with the rams in the early 80's his neck just would not let him play. However THAT is anecdotal evidence to a "T", 30 yrs ago, totally different medical technology and imo, Manning has rehabbed this problem before, and had huge success afterwards, he knows what it takes to bring his body up to speed.
So you are saying that their prior performance has an effect on their ability to heal and play longer?
No. I am saying that their prior performance suggests that they will be at a high level of play longer.
And made the Playoffs that year. As did the team 4 of 5 years after that. So what exactly was the negative effect compared to the decade long cluster**** we have had?
I see. So because of his prior performance, Peyton will come back from this injury and play longer than other players who have had the same injury and surgery, at his age. I see. What's the science behind that? I'm real interested in seeing what the reasoning for this is, considering the fact that the study shows past performance has no bearing on career longevity after surgery for cervical disc herniation. I'm very curious to see what will make Peyton's nerve regenerate faster than the local factory worker with the same injury.
In the BLUE corner, the Miami Heat's #1 fan, the man named after a section... or a section named after a man... SECTIOOOOOOOOOON RILEY IS GOD 12666666666666!... in the RED corner, a doctor by trade, a guru by desire, the sultan of anti running quarterbackology, Earl Thomas' pen pal, KB Never Wrong Twentyyyyyy Oooooooooooooooonnnnnnnneeee... ding ding...
You can't be serious with what I bolded, so I will address the rest. Very simple. A Professional athlete's sports life is represented by a graph line that steadily climbs to a peak, levels, then begins a drop. Peyton Mannings' is LONGER than Matt Moore's, since his peak performance is higher. The better the player, the longer his prime, and the slower the decline. Peyton Manning's decline is higher than Matt Moore's ascension, and so on...If you must use percentage points..a 90% Peyton Manning is good enough to repeat Chad Pennignton's 2008 Dolphin season, and Chad had injuries to essential limbs. Peyton Manning is repaired. He does not play a high impact position.
The anti-Manning constituency thinks we can't walk (sign Peyton Manning) and Chew gum (develop a young QB) at the same time.
I see. You can't explain the science behind it. That's probably because what you are saying is a bunch of nonsense, and there is no science that supports it. Pro Bowl athletes do not have more nerve growth factors, fibroblasts, and Schwann cells than the third string quarterback on any team. So, we are back to the question. After three, possibly four surgeries, what is it that will make Peyton Manning respond better and play longer than other players have had this injury?
Let's hope his intent wasn't to show arm strength. I couldn't see it clearly on my computer, but the 3rd throw looked to be a 12-15 yd. out. Watching the ESPN version, the ball was visibly higher than the roof of the fieldhouse. Even Sean Smith picks that one off.
What we have here is somebody that does not want Peyton Manning, so he will erect every strawman he can find, and when he runs out of strawmen, he will tout a bogus study which is completely irrelevant. When that study gets called into question for the bull**** it is, he will merely say that "science" is on his side, with no supporting evidence, when it is not.
This is where I offer a bet based on Peyton Manning's performance and get ignored. So I won't bother.
So for some break from the arguing...anyone think Friday (today now I guess) could be a big day for some news? Not a decision obviously, but a clear view of some competition and more info about when the Dolphins will meet him?
lulz. we could't develop a young qb for the past 12 years. BUT ITS ON NOW!!! I'm not a gambler, but this one is worth taking. Peyton's been reported at 85-90% and its March.
It's known that Peyton is maybe the most stand up guy in the league. Money also as reported in another thread isn't his main concern. Of course this is my opinion but I don't get the feeling after watching the interview of his release that this was a media stunt or a ploy to get him a fat paycheck and get signed when he is not ready to play physically. He said he loves the position of QB more then anyone else, he doesn't want to retire and he wants to get back to football. Also, he wouldn't be throwing the ball around if his neck wasn't feeling up to it. He wouldn't have invited those players and coaches to duke to watch if he wasn't up to it. Peyton wants to play next year, he is fiercely competitive and any arguements to say otherwise are bull****. Peyton's Brain's alone can grab him a job in the nfl as a QB even if we post his arm strength to 80% of the last year he played he's a top 5 QB add the leadership and knowledge of the game and he is the most important aspect of this offseason.
This guy speaks the truth. These ideas of Peyton's health concerns have been grossly overexaggerated. In December he was already back on the field throwing with guys like Joseph Addai and Austin Collie. They said back then his arm strength was picking back up. The only problem was soreness afterward. This was the issue that got brought up in the media...'Oh no Peyton's arm hurts still!!! He's done!!!' Anyone who has been lounging around for a while, and then up and decideds to hit the gym hard, knows how your body can feel for a few days after heavy lifting. That is how he was. The fusion he had done, as many doctors have said, will only make the neck stronger. His bones won't shatter when he takes a hit, he's not that old. Plus the beauty of having him as your QB means he won't take hits. When the protection breaks down he just takes a slide. He's not afraid to take a hit if he has someone open and has to make a throw, but generally he gets hit about once a game....and that's the truth.
A lot of media blowing things out of proportion... Also on NFL network Wiley said that Peyton is a serious athlete and is fantastic shape. He does his work on and off the field. Whether its in the gym, in meetings, or with his players the guy is 100%
I'm certainly not against bringing him here, just want to know that there is someone nurturing and learning their craft behind him, be it Tannehill or Cousins/Osweiler etc. I don't just want success for 2-3 years with Manning, I want to replace the Patriots as the front runner in the AFC East and get deep into the playoffs every year. At some point you have to commit to the future, and if they get a young QB with lots of upside and potential learning behind him, we could finally get that franchise QB we've been looking for since Marino left.
Didn't think this was new thread worthy, but for anybody interested, Chris Weinke will be on with Sedano at 9:00 on 790theticket.com to discuss his own fusion surgery and his expereinces with that. As has been previously discussed, Weinke had the same surgery Peyton did and returned to win a National Championship and Heisman. He also carved out a 7 year career as an NFL backup.
That's the thing. Those reports have all leaked from Manning's camp or people that claim to know Peyton Manning. If, and this is a whopper of an "IF", they had come from a non-biased, outside source, with medical knowledge of the situation, I'd feel a lot better about the whole situation. The reality is, no one in that position has said anything yet. Perhaps in the "medical meeting" that allegedly took place yesterday, those people spoke with Jeff Ireland - but we'll probably never know that. The fact that Manning has jumped out and said he wants to pick a team by Tuesday makes me think he's not as healthy as his camp is leading on and wants to sign somewhere now before a bunch of teams can see him throw and make a more sound determination. And of all those to be reported to sign him "sight unseen" it's Stephen Ross. I don't see how that doesn't make more people uncomfortable. Again, just my opinion, but at this point in time (key phrase) Peyton Manning is just a fancier band-aid than guys like Daunte Culpepper, Joey Harrington, Chad Pennington, Chad Henne, Matt Moore, etc. Until Miami actually knows the medical reality of the situation, I think signing him is an unwise risk.
Reggie Wayne is just riding the tails of Peyton, knowing that most teams will not give him a second look. He's hoping a team that selects Peyton will remember how they worked good together 5 or 6 years ago. IMO, if Peyton never got released from Indy, RW would be on a couch this next year watching players play.
Oh, they have. You mean to tell me that a serious nerve injury to the C7 nerve root from from a cervical disc herniation that has already required four surgeries to fix is being overblown? As for the comment that his neck is stronger now than it was before, that's just nonsense. His neck now has less range of motion, and there is now increased stress on the vertebra above and below the two fused vertebra.
Wayne has no doubt benifited from playing with Peyton but you are selling him short, he is a very talented reciever and would still be in the NFL with or without Peyton.
Benjamin Volin @BenVolinPBP Garcon wants to play with Manning in Miami, but also says he has to do what's best for his family. Feels like the Summer of 2010 again.
I am 100% on board with your prognosis, and Ck's infamous velocity issues. They are real, and critical criteria. With all of that being said, I still think we should pull the trigger just in case he does defy the odds and plays at a high level. Even if it is at the cost of missing out on Flynn, who is just a sight unseen as Manning with his limited reps and all star cast surroundings to benefit from. Manning could be Brees, or Culpepper. Flynn could be Cassell or Kolb or Feeley. Ideally, if we get Manning, I'd like to see Tannehill drafted with him.
And what do you think the actual chances of Miami using a first round pick on Tannehill after giving Peyton a big contract? This chance you want to take on Manning is not only going to cost you Flynn, but it is going to cost you any young quarterback that is worth developing.
That is exactly the problem, and why I'm torn on the issue. I want Manning, but I'm not too excited about the fact. I'm kinda passe on the whole issue. I'm just thinking from a risk reward standpoint, since I am a betting man and an aggressive one at that, I would pull the trigger.
Drew Brees's injury years ago was supposed to screw his career up but it didn't. This situation with Manning is similar in that you have a great QB available with an injury risk. The Dolphins struck out twice with Brees, I don't see them doing the same here.
