1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Jeff Ireland's Best Moves Thus Far

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by GARDENHEAD, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    I love this post, and mirrors some of my own thinking.

    Personally, I think he is a good scout. In a head scouting role, I think he would be fine. As a General Manager? There are to many negatives that I see happening. The whole pimp incident, players speaking out about him and his personality. I just don't know if he is cut out for the GM spot personality wise. His actual scouting and talent evaluation are probably average (though he does seem to shy away from playmakers), but that personality for me is what wears people thin and I think why we would be better off replacing him.
     
  2. WesternNYDolfan

    WesternNYDolfan New Member

    19
    23
    0
    Mar 21, 2012

    We have a solid foundation now because of all these "safe" picks. Gamechangers can only thrive in situations where the rest of the team is solid. A good RB isn't **** w/ out a line etc. So that Jake Long pick and Pouncy pick helped make the D Thomas pick, and R Bush trade work. See where I'm getting at? We can continue to build off of this foundation. Tearing it down with a new GM will set us back years.

    Talent is not the issue, it is performing, and being prepared. I for one was a Sparano supporter, however, I think Philbin might be able to make it work.

    People whining about the Marshall trade kill me too, the guy is going to be suspended, a distraction, and do you remember how many times he came up short in BIG moments? He was a Pro Bowl MVP sure, but pro bowls don't mean ****, how many TD Passes did he drop? how many games did that cost us.

    Also, is Charles Clay not a seam stretching TE? Did he not make some of the longest catches we had last season in his rookie year? Give him another year to develop, i believe he will thrive in the WCO.

    We can draft another WR btw, and if you read anything about Philbin his offense is not a WR1 offense, he prefers to have 4 solid recievers and to spread the ball, how much would Marshall have been *****ing in this situation?

    Richard Marshall should fix our FS situation, and now R Jones can move to SS which is his true position, I believe he will breakout.

    The problem I see is too many people see their teams strength through ESPN headlines, and Madden style ratings.

    This is real life, not Madden, certain schemes call for certain players. We are going to continue to build on strong drafts. Stop trying to scapegoat Ireland when he's done nothing but make our team far more talented than it was when he got here.
     
    Aqua4Ever04 and Bulldog like this.
  3. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

    978
    149
    0
    Mar 13, 2012
    [​IMG]
     
    WesternNYDolfan likes this.
  4. mracer

    mracer New Member

    429
    65
    0
    Dec 13, 2009
    Great post. You are definitely a glass half full type of guy. I agree with most of your post with the exception of the B Marshall trade. He is a very good #1 WR. The bigger issue is we created a huge hole in our offense because of this trade. If Irish turns one of those 3rd round picks into a probowl player of any position than I guess we're all fools. Here's hoping for the best.:up:
     
  5. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

    588
    451
    63
    Dec 20, 2010
    "Jeff Ireland has built a solid foundation despite three straight losing seasons and all evidence to the contrary" - Zombie Dolphin fans
     
  6. southbeachbeast

    southbeachbeast New Member

    37
    21
    0
    Aug 20, 2010
    hey since you guys are so results based and dont watch the games. How many games did we lose by more than 3 when Moore started and played the whole game??? ONE, and it was the first game he started against the Jets in New York where if they call the obvious pass interference on Marshall instead of a pick six by Revis we win that game. We had an entire new offense to learn in the offseason in a LOCKOUT year with our back up QB forced into action by week 4. how many reps you think he got with the 1st team before that??? we lost to @Giants by 3, Denver by 3 in OT, @ Dallas by 1, and @ NE by 3.... its not like were getting blown out and are clearly worse then these other teams... the only difference between us and those team (besides Denver) was they had a better QB. and Moore got hurt in the Philly game and we had to play JP LOSMAN. do you guys seriously not watch the games??? how can you say we are so far off when we clearly can play with anyone. we beat GB two years ago and should have beat the Giants last year. we can play with these teams were losing CLOSE GAMES it happens in the NFL everyone has talent.
     
    Wulf likes this.
  7. WesternNYDolfan

    WesternNYDolfan New Member

    19
    23
    0
    Mar 21, 2012
    Don't get me wrong, I liked Marshall; and it's too bad we had to get rid of him. But make no mistake, we HAD to get rid of him.

    They said they were shopping him since the combine, which makes me think Philbin didn't want him. Read any article about Philbin and his offensive philosophy you'll see he has a very specific archetype for the type of recievers he likes. As great as Marshall is, he doesn't fit into Philbin's scheme.

    I could see the headlines now "Marshall Not Happy: Get Me the Damn Ball" "Marshall: I'm a Playmaker Dammit"

    So now Philbin in his first year would be going to war with a star, and might not win that battle publically.

    Ireland, seeing both sides, and understanding the public backlash he would receive maybe holds off on the trade until he can find as close to fair value as possible.

    Then they get word that he punches a woman in the club. Know that the value may plummet precipitously he deals him immediately for the best offer on the table 2 3rds.

    Sure this is speculation, but it seems to make sense.
     
  8. Wulf

    Wulf New Member

    83
    20
    0
    Sep 13, 2011
    Pensacola, FL

    It looks liker 5 of the 6 draft picks from last year that we've kept, could start this year. And Frank Kearse, who was poached, may start in Carolina as well...
     
    WesternNYDolfan likes this.
  9. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    5,185
    2,907
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    Bottomline dreamer 7-9-7-9 6-10 is not good enough.What don't you understand?We are not going too the playoffs this year either.That will be 5 of the last 6 years with no playoffs.Wake the hell up and smell the coffee.We need gamechangers to win games.This guy has drafted none.Being safe gets you 7-9 7-9 6-10.If you are happy with being mediocre then I guess I am wasting my time arguing with you.
    To tell you the truth when I was thinking we could make the playoffs with moore I was not that excited about a wildcard and a first round playoff loss but at least I could tolerate the season.Now I have no expectations because ireland has taken that away from me.5 years with these parcells losers and even a wildcard is a pipe dream not to mention we still don't have a franchise qb to build around.
     
  10. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

    978
    149
    0
    Mar 13, 2012
    You just said that before the Marshall trade we were 1 WR and 1 TE away from the playoffs. You said that if we added a QB we'd be a legit Super Bowl caliber team.

    The loss of BM has changed all of that for you? Why? Do you think we can't/won't get a couple of WR's in the draft?
     
    Fin D likes this.
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    WD-40 is named that way because it was the 40th attempt at creating the proper formula that we know and love today.

    It would also not exist if you were in charge if its development, because you have this typical bs attitude that results are all that matter and you have no patience.

    This team seems to be better than its record indicated. We won't know for sure until we play this year. If there's no improvement in talent level, then you can sharpen your pitchforks.
     
    WesternNYDolfan likes this.
  12. southbeachbeast

    southbeachbeast New Member

    37
    21
    0
    Aug 20, 2010

    man i cant imagine what a boring and negative person you must be... feel sorry for ya buddy
     
  13. thisperishedmin

    thisperishedmin Well-Known Member

    2,404
    509
    113
    Aug 17, 2011
    Wikipedia verifies this...haha - never heard that before.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  14. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

    588
    451
    63
    Dec 20, 2010
    You have no basis that coaching was the problem and not the roster. In Sparano's first year he finished 2nd in coach of the year voting. I guess he got stupid overnight. Fact is, talent is more important than coaching in the NFL. How great of a coach do you think Mike McCarthy would be with Chad Henne at QB and Marc Columbo at RT?
     
  15. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

    7,760
    3,486
    113
    Sep 4, 2010
    Maui, Hawaii
    Maybe you don't give a **** about season ticket sales, but Ross certainly does. The owner wants those seats filled so he can make money. He doesn't care in the least about HDTV and the RED ZONE channel. I was a season ticket holder for forty years until I got fed up and stopped buying them after the 2010 season. I got a number of calls and letters from the Dolphins organization wanting to know why I was not renewing my season tickets and what they could do to get me to once again want to attend games.

    I advised them that I would not purchase tickets again until both Sparano and Ireland were no longer part of the organization. Ross got half way there this past season when he fired Sparano. Now I am just waiting for Ross to see the light and finally fire Ireland and I will once again be happy to return to the games at the stadium. The fact that season tickets sales have dropped by nearly thirty thousand since Ross became majority owner may not mean must to you, but it certainly shows how little faith a large percentage of the fans in South Florida have in Ross and Ireland.
     
  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    There's nothing similar between Henne & Moore. They are two very different QB's.

    One was brought in during Parcells time, and one wasn't.

    You cannot be honest AND say that doesn't point to Henne being a Parcells controlled get.
     
  17. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

    588
    451
    63
    Dec 20, 2010
    You're right. Ireland must have been off picking up takeout for everyone when Henne was drafted.

    Also, Columbo was brought in under Ireland yet all the Ireland zombies conveniently blame Sparano for that one.
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Ok, then its settled, you refuse to be honest.

    Also, I haven't really seen a whole lot of people blame Columbo on anyone but Ireland. That was a bad move on Ireland's part. No doubt.
     
    ToddsPhins and Bulldog like this.
  19. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

    588
    451
    63
    Dec 20, 2010
    I refuse to be honest yet you refuse to place ANY blame on Ireland for the years Parcells was here.

    Here's a fact for you -- Ireland and Parcells have the same mindset... they have the same beliefs in how to build a team... they subscribe to the same bigger is better philosophy... Ireland even stated he was keeping his size requirements at the combine, saying that was one thing he won't change in his evaluations. Honestly, why do you think Parcells hired Ireland in the first place? Could it possibly be because they think alike? Yet you don't think he had a single thing to do with building the team while Parcells was here... and other people are the dishonest ones. Laughable.
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007

    Sigh.

    I give you the biggest example of how exactly they ARE NOT OF THE SAME MINDSET with QBs Moore & Henne.

    Have you ever had a boss?
     
  21. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

    588
    451
    63
    Dec 20, 2010
    I don't see the relevance in comparing Matt Moore to Chad Henne. Both are 6-3. Matt Moore certainly isn't undersized by any means.

    And if Ireland didn't like Henne, why didn't he cut him last offseason when he had the chance?

    Yes, I have a boss. It's not always the boss' fault when something fails. It's the boss' fault for not putting the right people in place.
     
  22. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    I'm going to stop talking to you now. Not because I fear the conversation or you or anything like that. I'm going to stop, because you said there's no difference between Henne & Moore they are both 6-3. And someone that would say that and think it was a valid statement are either trolling or bucket of shrimp stupid and either way it would be impossible to have a real discussion with you.

    Rejoice CLB, this guy ^, came to the same conclusions as you. How does that make you guys feel?
     
    Bulldog likes this.
  23. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

    5,649
    1,853
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    DC
    Pat White was most certainly a Parcells get. Henne, if I remember the tale correctly, caused everyone in the war room to cheer when he was available at 57.
     
  24. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

    588
    451
    63
    Dec 20, 2010
    I can't tell if you're legitimately this delusional of a zombie or just a guy with nothing better to do than play contrarian on a message board. At any rate, have a nice day.

    One last thing.... how similar are Josh McCown and Chad Henne?
     
  25. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

    20,810
    8,965
    0
    Jan 7, 2008
    Hollywood, Florida
    I agree that in no way is talent more important than coaching. They both have a role to play.

    Example: Cameron Wake plays man coverage on Santonio Holmes. Jeff Ireland can build you a perfect defensive roster but when that happens it will be a touchdown all day every day.
     
    Aqua4Ever04 likes this.
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    If Parcells had a machine shop and could build his prototype rookie QB from scratch, he would have built something exactly like Henne.

    I still want someone to explain to me how your boss says get me something with X traits and meets Y criteria, and you do exactly that, its your fault if that something disappoints?
     
  27. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    5,185
    2,907
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    Look I hope your right because first and foremost I perfer to win than to be right.The problem is brandon marshall was the only player on our team that drew double coverage.You can't expect a couple of rookies to have that same type of impact.
    If we kept marshall and added to this offence and had a healthy peyton manning than yes we could have been superbowl contenders.But manning will make most team superbowl contenders.
     
  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    31 teams win games every year without Brandon Marshall. Even the Colts. Hell, we only won 6 with him last year.
     
  29. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    5,185
    2,907
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    So we are going to win with hartline and bess as our starting wrs.Please!Without marshall we have nothing.
     
  30. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Considering our offense was a lot more successful in 08 than it was at any point with Marshall I don't see how thats not a realistic expectation.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  31. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    5,185
    2,907
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    Talent and coaching our of equal importance or the belichick would have 10 superbowls.A once famous coach said you can't bake a cake without the right ingredients.Should have fired both of them.
     
  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    C'mon on man that was ridiculous. If Marshall was vital, so important to us winning, how come we didn't when we had him?
     
  33. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    5,185
    2,907
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    Well in 2008 chad pennington fell out of the sky into our laps.We caught the league of guard with the wildcat and we had probally the easiest schdelue in the league.
    To tell you the truth we scored more points in 2011 than 2008 also.
     
  34. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    5,185
    2,907
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    Well check down chad didn't help matters in 2010.Last year the defence showed up to camp out of shape and lets face it the lock out hurt the implementing the new offence.Don't get me wrong marshall had his part like dropping at least 5 tds,but I was up at buffalo 2 years in a row and marshall draws the coverage.Hartline and bess are not going to get seperatrion without him.This is a passing league now we need somebody to be that guy.I understand letting him go because he is a jackass but they should have had a plan to replace him outside of the draft because chances are a rookie is not going to have the same impact in thier first year.
     
  35. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    Wrong. I'd say prove it, but it's just wrong. If Ireland & Parcells shared the same mindset, the offseason acquisitions would've been similar. Nope. They weren't. The drafting would've been similar. Nope again. The desired type of offense would've been the same. It wasn't. Not.even.close.
    Daboll does not = Dan Henning.

    :lol: Bzzt. Wrong again. See below for examples.


    Wrong. 3 for 3.
    Mike Pouncey-- Doesn't fit the Parcells type mauler mold. Is more the athletic mold Ireland prefers to go with a non Henning offense that can utilize him.
    Reggie Bush- 6'0, 203. Definitely NOT Parcells' mold of starting RB.
    Charles Clay-- 6'027, 245. Parcells' would NOT have drafted a TE/Hback this size. Not close to his mold.
    Jimmy Wilson-- Parcells likely doesn't make that pick, and not just b/c of 5'11 185.
    Daniel Thomas-- 2 year starting JUCO transfer who's green at the position. Parcells doesn't draft those in the 2nd round.
    Clyde Gates-- 5'11, 192. Small school player needing development. Parcells doesn't like those.
    Matt Moore-- Do you see him resembling Pennington with the skill set to play in a manage the clock, play to not make mistakes Henning offense? Not me.
    Steve Slaton-- 5'9, 199. Wouldn't be a Dolphin.
    Marcus Thigpen, RB-- 5'9, 193. lol.
    Phillip Livas, WR-- 5'7, 179. :lol: Yeah, Parcells drools over WRs that size.
    Nic Grigsby, RB-- 5'11, 199. Unlikely Parcells brings him in.
    Vincent Egnew, CB-- 5'10 192. Not Parcells mold. Brought in for his blazing speed, quickness, natural ability, not his size.
    Kevin Burnett-- Ireland sacrificed the downhill thumper for a LB better in coverage & playmaking ability. Not a Parcells move.
    Richard Medlan, RB-- 5'11, 200. Not Parcells mold.
    Garrett Chisolm & DJ Jones-- a 312 lb guard & 310 lb tackle? Not Parcells typical mold.


    Obviously he didn't. See the long list above. Guess he fooled you during a time when nothing is what it seems and when no team wants to give away their draft strategy. :wink2:

    I think you're assuming that b/c they're "Ireland's evaluations" it means they're the evaluations of players he prefers to evaluate. If Parcells gives you a criteria to follow, then you follow it. It was PARCELLS' criteria that Ireland was previously basing his evaluations on. Obviously Ireland's criteria is different than Parcells because the 2011 draft & free agent acquisitions were virtually polar opposite of what you'd expect from Parcells.

    Because Parcells likes his eye for talent (and reputation as such) and thought he could groom him into what Bill wanted him to be, which happened to not be what Ireland wanted to become based on the details I listed above.
    Yes, Ireland did have something to do with building the team, and based on the limited say he had, he actually brought in a good deal of talent. Did some of Ireland's endorsements turn out to be unworthy? Of course. To think any team doesn't do this is ridiculously naive. For you to think Parcells didn't handcuff him is what's laughable. What part of "full authority" in 2011 do you not understand? You know what that means, right? It means in 2008-2010 he did NOT have full control of decisions. THAT'S WHAT MIAMI HIRED PARCELLS FOR--- to have FULL CONTROL (with Ireland grooming under him).
     
    Fin D likes this.
  36. southbeachbeast

    southbeachbeast New Member

    37
    21
    0
    Aug 20, 2010

    hey people, listen to this guy, he actually has knowledge about football that clearly many of you lack. thank you for having some perspective and not jumping on the bandwagon.
     
  37. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    75,122
    37,644
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    New York
    I dont know about the best move Jeff Ireland has made so far but I know the best move he could make sooner then later and that is leaving. His only value to this organization is as a draft evaluator. His ability to communicate and earn the respect of his players is awful at best. He belongs where he came from...scouting
     
  38. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

    29,125
    7,721
    0
    Mar 15, 2009
    I'd have no problem with that, but personally I'd like to see how his vision plays out b/c I like the direction he tried to go immediately post-Parcells.

    I like the offense he was hoping to create through Daboll (and I actually like Daboll as well); I like most of his coaching selections that were improvements over much of the Parcells stuff IMO, and I like the type of players he brought in which was completely refreshing for me after 3 years of Parcells boring drafts for guys who fit his boring Henning system and had to be XYZ tall, heavy, etc etc to fit his outdated criteria. bleh.

    Maybe all this negative attention will create a little introspection on his part to where he focuses on his communication ability? Who knows. Not saying he will. Just-- who knows.

    I'm not for or against the guy per se, but I understand what a new GM would mean, and if I were against Ireland, the one thing I'd like even less than Ireland fired is a complete rebuild (that his successor might prefer), and considering I'm excited about Philbin and would like to see what he does for at least a year, I'm not fond of a rebuild leaving us with a new HC before we find out what this one's capable of.
     
  39. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Look, this organization was bereft of talent when these guys got here. Yes, he's made more good moves than bad ones and added some folks that have developed. He's had his share of failures as well (Henne, Grove, Smiley, Murphy, White for examples). There are a list of maybes there too (Bush, Thomas, Jerry, Murtha) The D is predominantly FAs addons that have panned out (Dansby, Burnett, JT, Wake, Starks, McD and keeping Soliai). But there are still questions on Misi, Merling, Odrick, Clemons, Jones, even SS24.

    While he's made major improvements, he's also plateau'd out. We are still lacking in skilled offensive players (QB, TE, WR). The OL has been a thorn for more years than he's been here, although he's added Long, Pouncey and Incognito. The secondary is still a mess, despite adding Davis and Smith. The front 7 are in flux right now because of a new scheme and what that might bring, but Dansby was very good before he got here. He did have the patience to let Soliai grow into the NT position.

    I'd say at best he's even at this point...not great, not bad...If nothing more, not quite enough so far...
     
  40. Wulf

    Wulf New Member

    83
    20
    0
    Sep 13, 2011
    Pensacola, FL

    I'm not a fan of Jeff Ireland beyond the fact that he is the Dolphin's GM, but honestly if we DO discount the decisions made under Parcells, there hasn't been enough time to judge any of Ireland's moves, so demanding examples of good decisions becomes very difficult. Moore seems to have been a smart move, as does Bush. I would add cutting Marshall and not paying Matt Flynn what Seattle did as well...
     

Share This Page