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Jeff Fisher's thoughts on Ireland

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Rocky Raccoon, Mar 27, 2012.

  1. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

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    And the Dolphins have averaged 6 wins per season over that same timeframe. And the Rams have a franchise QB and a slew of high draft picks.
     
  2. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Good Achin' Grief. Can this get any more simplistic? Just thrown an amalgamation of the best players money can buy on the field does not guarantee wins? Shula, Dolphins 95-96.

    Those wins for which we all yearn are achieved by the proper balance on the team - which this team has not had since the end of the Cameron Era through the first 2-3 years of the Parcells era. It really feels like this is the first time we have anything that even began to resemble a convergence of ideas and philosophies on this team in almost 17 years. - and even the Marino years before that did not produce balanced teams. We went from explosive offense/p*** poor defense to Stalwart Defense/anemic offense to huge biguglies on both sides and nothing behind the front seven on each side to now maybe, just on the outside realm of almost possibly, maybe, a team being put together that has the balance necessary to compete on both sides of the ball. It hasn't been proven yet, of course, but.... this is closer than some of us have felt in a very, very long time. Now, if the coach could be half of what we hope he could be - that would be frosting on the cake.

    So far as the Fisher, Harbaugh, et al, going to other teams - There ARE 31 other teams - and they are not going to just stay still and allow the Dolphins, or any other team, to do what they will and not take their own shots. Those actions have been repeated enough to become almost a knee jerk regurgitation, yet they still show up as reasons not to believe any other ideas than the entire fault with the team lies at the feet of the one person, who after one year of relatively unfettered control, absorbs almost arbitrary condemnation because he is the sole remaining member of the triumvirate hired to lead the team following the debacle that was Cameron.
     
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  3. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. Dolphins fans covet a certain coach or player and if said coach or player chooses another team, the overall mindset here is there's something wrong with our team. Really? Are we so shallow of fans that the reason must be US?????

    Jim Harbaugh; While I do think it is entirely possible Miami screwed the pooch by not firing Sparano before interviewing Harbaugh, the possibility remains he felt his opportuity in San Francisco was better than his opportunity in Miami. San Francisco already had a fine team, LOADED with talent...not to mention Harbaugh was already living in the San Francisco area (Stanford).

    Jeff Fisher; I already addressed the issue with Jeff Fisher feeling St Louis was a better opportunity for him, but if Fisher was wanting full control of management decisions, how many teams actually yield to that desire? Miami did with Jimmy Johnson and that didn't fair too well for us overall.

    Peyton Manning; This one I think is the easiest one. The Denver Broncos, with Tim Tebow as their quarterback, a great player whose quarterbacking skills lack at the NFL level, win the AFC West and go to the playoffs. A SOLID running game, a GREAT defense, a GOOD offense that just lacked one thing...a quarterback. Duh!!! If I were Manning and our offensive line having more holes than the Titanic, I wouldn't want to come to Miami either, especially if I had vertebrate fusing surgery on my neck.

    This offseason, we should be pretty damned pleased. We wanted Fisher, he chooses St Louis. Next we wanted Joe Philbin and we got him. He could have gone to any of the other teams that had head coaching vacancies, but he chose Miami.

    Why? I thought we were a shoddy organization???
     
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  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Plus the cap room to pay him 30 million dollars.
     
  5. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Where did I say anything about Philbin?

    And I don't hold myself out as an expert in these matters, but I can deduce that a QB is the most important position and that we don't really have one right now. I can also deduce that when you go after 3 high profile people and fail to land each of them, then something might be wrong inside your organization.
     
  6. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

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    Again, what do you consider "failed to get"? If Fisher wanted full control and the Dolphins said "no" and he went somewhere else, is that failure to get him? I don't think so.

    And basing your opinions of this FO on the wishes and wants of Manning, Harbaugh, and Fisher is funny.
     
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  7. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    8 wins a year, but who's counting.
     
  8. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    I think what a lot of fans fail to consider is the domino effect. You land Fisher, a guy who Manning is familiar with, you have a much better shot at Peyton Manning, which in turn opens up a lot of other possibilities for Free Agents (possibly even at a better price).
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That may be true.

    But when Manning retires in a couple of years, we'd be stuck with Fisher.
     
  10. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

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    I guess you're not.

    32 wins over the last 5 years = 6.4 wins per season.
     
  11. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Yikes. Didn't count the 5th year. OOOOOooooooooooooooops.

    Either way, that's double the win total of the Rams. So, making an argument for them being "better over the last decade" doesn't really make a lot of sense. Besides the Lions, who are now a playoff team, they've been the worst team in football. That's what it's come to. A coach picking the worst team in football over the Miami Dolphins.
     
  12. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Not really.

    While Manning and Fisher are more familiar w/each other, signing Fisher does nothing to help us pay that $95 million contract. The money looked like the biggest difference between us and any other contender, imo.

    I don't think Manning would of helped us land any other FAs this year either since we'd of been completely tapped financially. The potential discount would of had to of been almost free.
     
  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The worst team in football was willing to give Fisher the control he wanted.
     
  14. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    I'll ask you the same question I asked Heat fans 8 years ago: Would you trade for Shaq and the possibility of a Championship, knowing you're only gonna get a couple of good years out of him, or continue on the path you are? You mortgage the future for a LEGIT shot at the title.

    In this instance, I think the decision would have been MUCH easier. If we had Peyton, who gives a **** about Fisher? That would've been the least of your concerns. Easiest choice ever.
     
  15. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    [​IMG]
     
  16. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    The saddest part is, you're right. Now ask yourself WHY this team was in cap trouble (with a losing record 3 consecutive seasons).

    If Peyton DID come here, however, you extend Jake Long, Cam Wake and some other guys you probably get the relief you need to sign draft picks + bring in another FA or two. There are ways around it. If Peyton wanted to be here, he and his agent would've structured a cap friendly contract. Pretty sure they did something similar in Denver.
     
  17. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Not sure where the reach is. He made the argument the Rams have been a better team. They haven't been. We've been mediocre, they've been Pittsburgh Pirates-esque.
     
  18. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Maybe.
     
  19. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Not a hard decision, but also not the decision he made. Fisher chose the Dolphins but wanted some way to protect himself from another Vince Young situation. Ross wouldn't budge on giving the GM final say rather than giving the HC veto power, so Fisher was then forced to move on to his second choice.

    Fisher chose the Dolphins. The Dolphins then elected not to choose Fisher.
     
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  20. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I don't see where you get the money to make those deals.

    This would be the reach:
     
  21. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    That is what everyone is saying.

    You can go by people's word or create your own reality. There is a chance that your theory is correct, however there is also a chance that Barak Obama is a clone of an Egyption Pharoah
     
  22. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    That's a pretty fair comparison.
     
  23. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    There were quite a few people who said after the fact (believe Peter King was one) that veto power rarely, if ever, comes into play.
     
  24. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    How can King possibly know that?
     
  25. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    He talked to league executives. I dunno. How does he know any of the **** in his columns? I'm no fan of King's writing, mind you, but the guy does have sources. I'll see if I can find that particular one and post it.

    EDIT: Here's the blurb:

    Non-playoff team bonus noteworthy event: Jeff Fisher didn't choose against Miami as much as he chose St. Louis. Simply put, Fisher wanted to avoid another situation like he had in Tennessee, where owner Bud Adams, if he chose, could tell him what to do on personnel. Adams told him in 2006 to take Vince Young in the first round. Fisher didn't want to do that, but it was Adams' call. Now, understand this: I'm told reliably Fisher did not ask the Rams or Dolphins for final say on draft day, or total control over the roster. All he wanted was the ability to -- in the event he was categorically opposed to a decision being made by the general manager -- have a mechanism in place for a third party, like an owner, to decide which way the team would go. St. Louis was fine with that. Miami wanted to leave ultimate personnel authority with the GM, Jeff Ireland.

    Seems like a little thing for Miami to surrender with owner Stephen Ross wanting Fisher badly, but consider this: The last six Super Bowl winners leave the final draft and personnel say up to the general manager. Maybe Miami should have given in, but that would have violated Ireland's contract and changed the structure Ross wanted in place. ... and flown in the face of the way most (but not all) winning teams operate.

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/01/16/divisionals/index.html#ixzz1qLFoKdzh

    The last part of the blurb is typical King, giving a useless stat.
     
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  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    He has no idea how often Fisher & ireland may have disagreed, which is when veto power would come into play. That as an insane statement for anyone, King or whoever, to make.

    And by the way, you're smart enough to know veto power is absolute power in a FO.
     
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  27. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Yep, understood. I don't think it's crazy for someone to know that. You call a few executives and ask them how often someone has to exercise veto power. They tell you it's used rarely, frequently, never, whatever.. Why is it so crazy to think someone could know this? **** comes out about EVERYTHING these days. I can't find the exact blurb, but know I read it.
     
  28. Finfangirl

    Finfangirl Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    NO, but he could have just said i have no comment on that, or it is what it is. But, he went out of his way to say that he thought the scrutiny was unfair.
     
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  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    FTR, I don't think you made up that you read it. i trust you.

    Secondly, they still don't know how often Fisher & Ireland would disagree. No one knows that, so unless there's been a FO that employed both Fisher & Ireland I don't see what relevance it has.
     
  30. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Well, here's an article that quotes Ross saying control wasn't the reason Fisher didn't choose Miami. Is Ross saving face?

    Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/13/2588167/fisher-chooses-rams-wont-join.html#storylink=cpy


    Either way, there's a disconnect. IF Ross is telling the truth, that organizational control wasn't an issue, then Fisher picked the Rams over the Dolphins. Which is bad.
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    If that's true, and I have no reason to think it isn't, then maybe Fisher picked the Rams because of the easier division and draft picks to work with. He does have control at St. Louis that he wouldn't have had here though. So maybe he was fine not having it here, but if all things are equal, maybe that was the cherry on top.
     
  32. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just like ryan Clark, Joey Porter and Crowder went out of their way to say what they said, but of course they are a bunch of dumb hooligans so we shouldn't take them seriously.

    And again, actions speak louder than words. It's nice and all for Fisher to say kind things, but his actions spoke differently. As I'm sure Harbaugh and Peyton Manning would say nice things if asked. Yet their actions tell a different story.

    Perhaps as Philbin grows into his role, he will be the public face this franchise needs and Ireland can do what he does well which is stay in a cave watching film.
     
  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    So Philbin's actions do not count?
     
  34. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Personally I just think this was Fisher not wanting to rub salt in the wound. He made his decision to take the HC job with the Rams and I just don't think he is the type of individual who wanted to say anything negative in regards to Ross and Ireland.

    The fact is that Fisher obviously didn't have that much faith in Ireland because he wanted final say so over all personnel decisions and Ross wanted Ireland to retain the final say over these decisions. This was suppose to be the reason Fisher is not now the HC of the Dolphins. This says to me that Fisher didn't have the confidence in Ireland to trust him to select players who would get this team to the playoffs.

    Even coaches which are fired from an organization have only good things to say in public about the men running the organization they were just fired from. It's what said behind closed doors and not for public viewing that we will never know. How Fisher really feels about Ross and Ireland is unknown, except to those closest to him. I don't take what he says for public consumption, one way or the other.
     
  35. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Wow, surprising
     
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  36. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    If I were asked, "In one word what would you describe as the most important characteristic of an owner?", I'd answer, "passionate".
     
  37. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Like I said before, maybe. But ****, how bad does it suck to know a coach prefers the Rams (!) to the Dolphins? All things should never be equal when comparing those two franchises. Ever.
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yeah it sucks. But personally I blame Tuna.

    Think about it, even if Ireland turns out horrible, Tuna brought him in.
     
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  39. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Of course, Parcells deserves a ton of blame. I was glad last year when Sparano was fired because I thought it meant doom for Ireland as well, meaning those 3 would be gone and we could rebuild without acorns and Cowboys rejects.

    Ireland is the turd that won't flush.
     
  40. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    So you thought last year was combo of bad talent and bad coaching?
     

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