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Interesting comments from the FO

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bulldog, Mar 30, 2012.

  1. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I wonder...

    How many people thought the quarterback issue was address with Alex Smith in San Francisco?
    How many people thought 1st year head coach Jim Harbaugh with Alex Smith as his QB would be a heartbeat away from the Super Bowl?
    How many 49ers fans were making the same assertions regarding Alex Smith last year that many Dolphins fans are making regarding Matt Moore?
    How many people were chastizing the 49ers front office and Harbaugh for not getting another quarterback to replace Alex Smith prior to last year's season?
    How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Toostie Pop?



    [​IMG]
     
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  2. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    It does. Kind of funny that the team with Tom Brady on their roster spent a much higher pick on QB than the team with Chad Henne on their roster. Bill Belichick might not be the best at the draft, but he understands the value of the QB position.
     
  3. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

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    I thought Mallet was drafted in the 3rd round and Henne/White were 2nd rounders.
     
  4. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

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    I understand that this has become a pass happy league and a QB nowadays means more than it did even a decade ago. However, you still need a good supporting cast of players or great coaching (preferably both) if you want to make it to the Super Bowl. Look at the Chargers. They've had so much talent all over the place for a long time. However, they're coaching sucks. Or, look at the Colts. They've had arguably the greatest QB of all time playing at a very high level for them for 13 seasons. They got one Super Bowl win. Why? Poor supporting cast. (And I'm not sure if you feel this way, but for anyone else about to comment on Manning...save it. His post season play has been equal to or better than Brady's post season play. Their respective teams have played a lot differently, however.) On the other hand you have the Patriots. HoF QB, with typically average players around him sans his O-Line which has been one of the best over the last decade. Why have they won 3 Super Bowls and been to 5 over the last decade? Coaching. BB takes average players and makes a great team out of them. Hell, look at Marino! One of the top 3 QB's to ever play...no ring. Why? Poor supporting cast.


    So your recommendation is that the Dolphins should just use their #1 draft pick every year on a QB, even if it doesn't look like there are any franchise QB's at the time they pick, until they find a franchise QB? That makes no sense. I'll use your server analogy. You don't want to "turn and burn" you want to refuse tips from your tables with the hopes that one day you get a $1 million dollar tip. However, what if that takes 20 years? Do you just eat the scraps of food left over on the plates of those you serve?

    Again, I'm not saying that we shouldn't draft a QB in the 1st round. I'm not even saying that they shouldn't draft Tannehill or Weeden. What I am saying is that if they don't believe that Tannehill or Weeden has a shot at becoming a franchise QB they should not waste a high pick on them. If this FO did what you're wanting, we'd allow the rest of the team to fall apart and by the time we found a franchise QB they'd be playing with scrubs.
     
  5. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

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    Too bad Mallett was taken int he 3rd round and that fact destroys your entire post.
     
  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I never said or meant to imply the coach wasn't important. He is. The system is important. I feel like that part will be solved with Philbin. We still need a QB.

    The difference being if we suck we get a better draft pick and a better chance to get the guy. I want to be a contender not relevant. The Pats are a contender, the Ravens are relevant. The difference? QB. The Ravens have a great supporting cast, and no QB and they will never get one unless they engineer a huge deal that if wrong could set back the franchise longer than if they spent just their first on a bust.

    It is little more than a crap shoot to find the right QB. Anyone says anything else they they are wrong. No one gets it right the majority of the time, no one. The only way to increase your chances is to commit to it and play more.
     
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  7. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

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    I too think Philbin will change a lot for this team. He alone makes us better.

    And I agree with the rest also. I guess I've never really thought of it that way. Take a chance now on a QB and if it doesn't pan out we'll pick even higher the following year which will better our chances of finding that franchise guy. Good point.
     
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  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I just want a QB i can believe in, its been more than a decade.I think we've suffered enough for being able to get Marino so low in the first round. Our debt is paid. I don't care what his name is or where he comes from, his name could be Hitler Polpot from Transalvania U, as long as he's a franchise QB.
     
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  9. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Call me a dinosaur, but I'm one of those who still feels the Head Coach is THE most important position on the team. He's the Captain of the ship. He sets the tone, he develops the strategy, he's the one actually "playing chess" against his opponent, the head coach on the other side of the field, he sets the system.

    Now I know this is a dinosaur mindset and there are going to be those who ridicule me. So be it, but the system is so much more important in my opinion than the actual players themselves because if a head coach implements a system that allows a team to be firing on all cylinders, they're unstoppable.

    Look at the Washington Redskins of the 80's. Three Super Bowls in 7 years with 3 different quarterbacks (Theisman, Williams, Rypien)
    But TDK, that's ancient history!!!

    Okay, how about something a little more recent?
    Granted, they've had other issues, but how about the San Diego Chargers? Is Phillip Rivers just THAT freaking spectacular or was it their system that allowed Rivers to step up and the Chargers not miss a beat offensively after Brees was traded to New Orleans?

    How about the Green Bay Packers? Is Aaron Rodgers THAT freaking spectacular or was it their system that allowed Rodgers to step up and ultimately guide the Packers to a Super Bowl win after Favre was released?

    And in my opinion, the most UNDENIABLE example of the system being more important than the individual players...The San Francisco 49ers. Same cast offensively (Smith, Gore, Ginn)...the same cast defensively (albet your normal FA trades/rookie drafts, but nothing barn storming), but the system Jim Harbaugh brought in to San Francisco took this same cast of average wanna be players and took them a heart beat away from the Super Bowl. Is Alex Smith THAT freaking specatular of a quarterback, or was it the system that gave him success?

    My problem with the glorification of individual players is, that player ends up becoming "the team" and the entire team, from the owner all the way down to the lowly place kicker and everyone in between depends on "that player", but history has shown, no matter WHO you are (talking quarterback right now), at some point in your career, you're going to have a season ending injury

    -Peyton Manning
    -Tom Brady
    -Drew Brees
    -Daunte Culpepper
    -Dan Marino

    While having a great quarterback is great provided you have the ENTIRE cast around him and don't rely on his talent alone, if your SYSTEM is screwed, when you lose that player due to aseason ending injury, your team is screwed, ie Manning.

    When Tom Brady went down for th season with his knee injury, everyone rejoice and sang Hallelluah from mountain tops, but what happened? Matt Cassell came in and took the Patriots to the playoffs. Is Matt Cassell that freaking specatular or is it New England's SYSTEM that kept them winning?

    Bottomline, in my opinion the system, the head coach is by far the most important postiion on the team and we have our "franchise head coach" and I'm so very confident in him and his abilities that should our starting quarterback for 2012 be a guy named Moore or Garrard, we're going to have success this season like we've not seen in some time! :up:
     
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  10. southbeachbeast

    southbeachbeast New Member

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    To all you pessimist Dolphin "fans" out there (and I know theres a lot of you):

    I think you will be presently surprised this year on just how much better the coaching is going to be overall, and how huge of a difference that is going to make. Coaching is such a big part of the game that never gets discussed and lets face it, Sparano and Daboll do not belong in the same class as Philbin and Sherman. Im telling you our offense is going to be soooo much better just on that. I mean Daboll didnt even know how to use Reggie Bush til about half way through the season. And lets face it Sparano is just useless. This zone blocking scheme is going to be a perfect fit for our offense with Bush and Thomas just being one cut up field running behing Long and Pouncey. Oh and Steve Slaton ran for 1200 yds. and 9 TDs in the same system in Houston a couple years ago, but he was not a good fit in our "power" running game which is a thing of the past. You dont realize how slim the margin of victory in the NFL is, in games where Moore started and finished, we only lost ONE game by more than 3 points and that was his first game after a lockout shortened season being the back up. How many reps you think he got with the first team offense?? and that game was on the road in New York. We only lost to Giants on road by 3, Pats on road by 3, and Dallas on road by 1. In Philly game Long and Moore got hurt. If Moore had been the starter from opening day we could have EASILY gone 10-6. Are you guys blind??? And that was with bad coaching all year!!!! Were going to have GOOD coaching all year this year, and actually have an offseason to learn the offense and defense. And we havent even had the draft yet! How can you guys be predicting were going to be so bad. Just cuz everyone else is saying that, let the offseason play out and see what happens. Did anyone think we would go 11-5 the year after 1-15?? It must suck to be so negative.
     
  11. Bulldog

    Bulldog New Member

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    I posted this same thing in another thread and touched on it again a few posts ago in this thread. IMO, coaching trumps talent. Coaching will make or break a team regardless if that team is filed with all-pros or scrubs.
     
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  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Coach and QB are 1a & 1b, you don't consistently win without the either.

    For ever coach with multiple QBs and success there's a Shannahan, Marucci, Switzer, Seifert, Holmgren, Parcells, etc.
     
  13. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Well, we're just going to have to agree to disagree then.

    Great coaches trump great quarterbacks every time. Shula, Gibbs, Parcells, Gruden, Billick, Coughlin have all won multiple Super Bowls (less Gruden and Billck) with only average to above average quarterbacks
     
  14. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Too bad I was only talking about the 2011 draft. But I can see why people read it that way considering Miami didn't even draft a QB in 2011. I was comparing the Mallet pick to Devlin who was undrafted; not Chad Henne in the 2nd to Mallet in the 3rd.

    The point is the Patriots, without an immediate need at the QB position spent a 3rd round pick on a QB. Miami with QB as one of the team's biggest weaknesses signed an undrafted player. The rich get richer and the poor keep losing.
     
  15. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    And the 49ers were so impressed with Alex Smith with his 3400 yards passing and 17 TDs that they made a play for Peyton Manning.

    I get your point. With a phenomenal defense and a great running game a game manager who doesn't make mistakes can take a team far. But the fact remains the 49ers did NOT go to the Superbowl. 2 of the teams best QBs took their teams instead. In today's NFL, more times than not the best offenses trump the best defenses. The rules favor the offense so it makes sense.
     
  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    First of all, I don't know why you brought Bilick & Gruden into the conversation.

    Secondly, tell me you wouldn't take any of these QB's: Eli Manning, Brunell, Simms, Griese, Theisman. These are all franchise QBs. Some QBs can succeed in one system and not another. These great coaches have to have the right QBs for their system. I don't think Gibbs wins with Griese, for example.
     
  17. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Brady, drafted in the 6th, was Drew's replacement. The relative value you speak of comes from the quality of the pick not the draft round he was picked in imo. There are several quality QB's thruout this draft and Ireland's job is to get the right one not necessarily one in the first round just to prove he can pick one there.

    If we have less time for error we also then can not afford to be reckless!
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Reckless is not picking your guy when you have the opportunity and hoping he'll be there farther down the line because you're worried about some value perception.

    If Tom Brady was taken in the first round, everyone would have called that a reach and horrible value. They'd have been wrong. If you could guarantee a rookie QB would produce like Brady, he'd be #1. I believe in traditional draft value for every other position, just not QB.
     
  19. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    ddown with the fist pump! Death to mediocrity!
     
  20. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Apparently I develop a stutter whilst typing on this flipping kindle.

    The revolt will continue from my laptop shortly.

    Laughing at technically challenged old dudes is mean.
     
  21. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    everybody screaming for the franchise guy and if we finally would go for it and pick him, its all bad again, well there is still radio for you to listen to
     
  22. MAFishFan

    MAFishFan Team Tannehill

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    imo there's 2 qb's to draft: either tannehill or weeden...that's it...none of the others impress me, especially Osweiler
     
  23. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Well, because Bilick and Grudent both won Super Bowls with medicore quarterbacks maybe? (Trent Green and Brad Johnson)

    I wouldn't take Simms or Theismann to tell you the truth. If you really look at their career numbers, pretty dissmal. Even Miami traded Theismann to Washington after drafting him in '71.

    Mark Brunnell? I don't know why you brought him up, but in his prime? Mark was pretty good, taking Jacksonville to the AFC Championship in only their second season...under Tom Coughlin mind you :up:

    Eli? Eli's a good quarterback when he doesn't feel pressured. When he's relaxed, he's cool calm and poised. Rattle him though? Interceptions left and right. Tom Coughlin has made Eli Manning successful, not Eli Manning.

    Bob Griese? While his individual numbers may not be that great, leading your team to the Super Bowl for a then unprescedented 3 consecutive times (AFC Championship 4 times in a row)?? That's the leadership you want on the field....but then again...Don Shula made Bob Griese!
     
  24. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How did they publicly chase him? I heard all the media say we were after him, I didnt hear the Phins say they were all after him.
     

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