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PFT reporting Capers wants out of Miami.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Jagfish, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Well stop it! :lol:

    You are bumping a ruckmaker's poorly written and poorly cited rumor.
     
  2. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to know that myself. I still don't know what the hell is going on here.
     
  3. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj New Member

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    Desides hates the Tampa 2, I just wanna know why

    it has a great track record

    Why is Tampa's defense so good this year?
     
  4. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj New Member

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    now we are getting somewhere
     
  5. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Because it's designed to not give up the big play, but not to defend the regular play. All you have to do to beat the Tampa 2/Cover 2 is run crossing routes or dump off a pass and let the receiver generate YAC.

    The best thing that can be said about the C2/T2 is that if your offense is good enough to generate a late lead, the scheme makes it difficult for the other team to move quickly down the field, simply because they have to keep attacking the middle directly behind the defensive line.

    I prefer the 3-4 because it's strong against the run and pass, does not have the weak spot in the center of the field, and we have at least two pieces of the secondary necessary to support the 3-4 defensive line. Jason Allen is coming on at Safety, Will Allen is having a Pro Bowl year at corner.

    The T2/C2 has already passed its prime, because offenses over the last two years have figured out how to beat it. Indy's defense has been good this year because Bob Sanders has been healthy: he's great at run support and makes plays in pass defense. You take out Bob Sanders and you get the 2006 regular season Indy defense.
     
  6. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    There are a couple of nuances that I notice about Cover 2 teams. All teams use Cover 2. All teams use man to man. All teams use a quarters coverage. These are basic coverages in every NFL teams arsenal.

    The difference between Dungy and Kiffins teams is that they rely heavily upon that coverage. They teach their secondary to read routes. The players must spend alot of time watching film. They know before the game what routes the offense will run based upon down and distance. They draft/recruit personel to suit that coverage. Cover 2 is all about football "smarts" and physical play. It's not so much about physical ability. They can draft the slower secondary players that didn't "measure up" at the combine. They draft/recruit FOOTBALL PLAYERS.

    As a defensive coordinator you tend to marry yourself to one idea of how you would like to defend. The coverage you choose is largely based upon what you think it will take to defeat the passer. Zone is making a comeback largely because the game is so tilted toward the offense. Zone allows your defense to create more turnovers. If you are not getting turnovers by utilizing zone heavily then you are not winning. In contrast, man to man is choosing to defeat the receiver one on one underneath with help deep.

    Notice in all of this discussion about coverage, I never said anything about the front. Knoll would use a 34 or a 43 front. He would use either according to the personel matchups. This term "hybrid" everyone is using to describe defense is an oversimplified term just to label something. You vary your front in today's game moreso to confuse your opponents blocking schemes. The coach is taking a DE and placing him at a linebacker position. He's placing a corner in a DE position. He is doing all this to confuse the QB reads. He is doing all this to confuse the linemens blocking schemes. There is nothing more to it than to create confusion. In gaining the confusion, the defense loses strength. It loses strength because players are not in their defined roles. The conversation that is never had when using the term "hybrid" is that much of the time, the gamble never pays off. But I have to hand to the D coordinator that is doing it - at least he's doing something in attempt to stop the passer.....

    The offense has it's confusion mechanism for the defense. It's called motion.
     
  7. kadiddlehopper

    kadiddlehopper Senior Member

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    He hasn't left the building already?
     
  8. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Cover 2 Pattern Reads

    Philosophy

    • Disrupt timing and placing of receivers and QB
    • Give rush more time to QB
    • Take away speed of wide receiver
    • Protects cornerbacks ability

    Alignment

    • Corners 0-5 yards Head up to outside eye, very tight shade
    • Safeties 12-14 yards, 2 receiver side 14 yards, single receiver side 12
    • Backers 4 yards split the difference between #2 and Gap responsibility. If a short pass goes more than 3 yards to #2 widen out.


    Outside Backers (Sam & Will)

    • Base Responsibility- Stay over the top of #2 receiver. If #2 receiver goes vertical re-route the receiver and run with him. As you engage the receiver Expand Your Vision, which means see #1 receiver. If #2 crosses your face, back up and look for the square in or dig behind you. If there is no square in behind you look for a check down pattern and close on it. If you are away from Trips you will do the same thing as if #2 crossed your face (which he has by alignment in Trips).
    • IN-IN-IN - If the Outside Backer gets an IN call from the corner he will come off the seam route and look for #1 on the dig or square in route. The IN call is the only time the Backer off of the seam route.
    • SMASH - If the outside backer gets a SMASH call from the corner he will run underneath any pattern to the outside by #2. If #2 runs vertical he stays with the vertical.
    • BANJO - Vs. a 2 back set a BANJO call is made by the Mac and Outside backer. BANJO lets the backer know that the back and #2 receiver might cross and they will make the switch if they see them cross. BANJO is a pre-snap call. Any time #2 runs a flat pattern widen with the receiver and look to #1 start to sit down underneath the curl.
    • KEY READ- Your Key is the Back. You think Pass first in cover 2 and run reaction will be late. See the action of the back thru the line and get your eyes to #2 receiver.


    Inside Linebacker (Mac)

    • Base Responsibility- Stay on top of #3 receiver. Close and run with any crossing pattern. Trips will cause this to change.
    • Trips Rule- Vs. Trips the Mac will protect the seam first but if #3 crosses he lets him go because it will balance the formation to an even formation (spread / deuce). If #3 crosses you will sit in the middle looking for a check down pattern or #2 to cross.
    • BANJO- In 2 back sets a BANJO call is made by the Mac and Outside backer. BANJO lets the backer know that the back and #2 receiver might cross and they will make the switch if they see them cross. BANJO is a pre-snap call.
    • Key Read- Read the back, thinking run first.



    Corners

    • Base Responsibility- Line up on the #1 receiver head up or slightly shaded outside (tight shade). They re-route the receiver and run with him on any deep route spying #2 receiver. If the receiver tries to go inside re-route him a far inside as possible. He the receiver tries to release to the boundary protects the boundary and uses a Hook Technique. The farther away a corner is from the base formation the looser they might play the #1 receiver. They will use a Cathy technique.
    • Hook Technique- for a boundary release, post with outside arm, drive #1 to the boundary, drop the hips and pivot towards the QB inside, throw the elbow and hips and block the WR from getting up the boundary.
    • Cathy Technique- the corner lines up normal then bails out late (just before the snap) to 7 yards and will sit down at 10 yards and engage the receiver. This is a soft 2 technique
    • IN-IN-IN- If the receiver is releasing inside then they must make an IN-IN-IN call to the outside backer. After and IN call is made the corner will spy #2 receiver for an out route or corner route and the route. The corner should be between the flat and flag route so he can play both.
    • SMASH- if a receiver runs a stop route or a hard inside slant route they call SMASH to the outside backer. SMASH tells the LB that the corner will stay on the #1 receiver. Corners need to be able to come off the receiver after the ball is thrown to a crossing pattern and squeeze the crosser not letting him cross his face. The corner is primary contain.
    • Dead Side Rules- If you are a dead side corner you need to watch #3 from the far side to gage your depth. You must be able to play over the top of #3 so his pattern and speed will dictate your depth.



    Safeties

    • Base Responsibility- Play pass first in cover 2. They must play over the top of any vertical route and be able to split routes in order to play both patterns. They read the #1 receiver on their side. They read Ball first and then key the #1 receiver. The #1 receiver will let him know if he is getting stretched or not, if not he squeezes back inside the hash. If he is getting stretched he stays on the hash.
    • SMASH- If the #1 runs a stop or hard slant they know it is a SMASH call and will get over the top of an outside route by #2.
    • IN-IN-IN- If the #1 runs an inside route position themselves to play over the top of #2 who will be running a vertical route or a corner route. The outside backer is coming off of the #2 seam during an IN call and covering the square in by #1.
     
  9. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Cover 3

    Philosophy

    A. Great run defense for one back sets. (All gaps are accounted for)
    B. Gives a pressure look to QB (makes him honor pressure)
    C. Must bring pressure and change up coverage from alignment

    Alignment

    • Corners- line up outside eyeshade, tight to the WR one or two yards off from the receiver.
    • Rover and Sam- lines up on inside eye of the #2 receiver. Plays 1-3 yards off receiver depending if they are pressing or not.
    • Free Safety- lines up 12 yards splitting the two widest threats


    Corners-
    • Play a Press Technique.
    • Press Technique- Open step just before the snap (corners need to try to time the snap), eyes are looking in, they open step will create a ½ turn so the corner is looking at #2 and #1 at the same time. Corners outside shoulder are now on WR’s outside shoulder. Next they will cross over and run. Corner should have a 3 yard cushion, they will mirror the WR’s feet and if they need to use the hands they can (vs. Out and Up)
    • Play Post and Go first- they will run with any Post or Go routes unless they see a wheel by the #2. If they see a Wheel they will split the two deep routes so they can play both. This is the only time they come of the post.
    • Vs. Boot action the corners cut off any Post routes
    • Vs. Trips they play the same techniques, away from trips the corner has the deep routes for ½ the field.
    • If #1 on your side runs a square in you will gain depth and look to cut off a backside post

    Flat Players (Rover and Sam)-
    • Do not allow quick seam routes. They use a bump technique and try to re-route the receiver to the outside. When re-routing to the outside your eyes should work out towards #1 looking to take away the smash route
    • Bump Technique- eyes are on the WR’s waist. On the snap give some ground and mirror the WR. Take an open step the direction the WR is going. Don’t allow the WR’s hips to clear your hips. Feet open 1st, Hips open 2nd, and Opposite hand is last.
    • Make #2 take you to the flat, if not protect the seam.
    • If you are pressing the receiver and lose the guy to the outside, flip the hips and try to slap the hands and use a wedge technique to get back with his hips.

    Free Safety-
    • The Safety will make all plays 3 yards inside of each hash. Unless #1 runs a square in to his side.
    • Safety is an aggressive run player
    • Eyes go to the twins side first because it is a more dangerous pass threat.
    • If #2 runs a wheel gain depth and look to play a post by #1
    • If #1 runs a square in on the twins side they will jump the pattern
    • Vs. any boot action the Free will close on any crossing routes.
    • Vs. Trips the Free with have the ¼ on the side of trips.

    Inside Linebackers (Mac and Will)-
    • Once they get a high hat read they will gain depth looking for #1 on their side and get in the vision between #1 and the quarterback. This will help take away the skinny post by #1 with #2 running an out pattern.
    • Drop zone is in the line of sight of the seam (Hook to Curl)
     
  10. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Cowher is not coming back, he already told that to Atlanta. And I really don't see any team hiring Capers as a head coach again.
     
  11. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    2Z Strong/Free Safety Pattern Read
    3Z Strong Safety Pattern Read

    Always Key 2 to your side before you drop. He will tell you what number 1 will do. If 2 is eliminated by anything except vertical pressure (flats, crossing, blocking) then we can get our eyes on number 1.


    2 In Short
    1 In Medium
    Ready to drive on in route of 1

    2 Quick out
    1 Curl
    Ready to drive on Curl

    2 Blocks
    1 Deep
    Get depth fast, drive on ball

    2 Vertical
    1 Quick crossing pattern
    Get depth for vertical route

    2 Vertical
    1 Vertical
    Get Depth, Stay in zone, Split receivers


    Coaching Points:
    Linebacker runs with the second receiver through your zone. Stay eye to eye!
    Safeties stay deeper than routes through your zone
    Attack Patterns – Don’t backpedal, Flip Hips and run

    3Z specific coaching points:
    Free Safety takes first crosser
    Linebacker’s priority should be width more than depth in his zone
     
  12. kadiddlehopper

    kadiddlehopper Senior Member

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    Now there's a thought. I wouldn't be against him. The other guys being mentioned are also being mentioned for HC jobs, that are or may open. Pepper is under that radar.
     
  13. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    He's jumping before he gets pushed.

    I think he's got a fair idea that the internal review will point a dirty big finger at him for the defence going from 4th overall to 31st overall.
     
  14. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    It's possible that teams will see what he did with Carolina and ignore Houston. Don't underestimate the desperation of some teams to make a coaching change: there have been 17 coaching changes in the last 2 years alone.
     
  15. kadiddlehopper

    kadiddlehopper Senior Member

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    Horse hockey. Capers has limited his players!
     
  16. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Last edited: Dec 17, 2007
  17. I put little merit in anything PFT reports. They get things wrong more then they do right.
    With that being said:

    I think everyone can agree that Dom has been a huge disappointment to us all this season. Considering the paycheck he is pulling in he should be able to do more then he has. I can produce a legimate list of excuses to explain the dismal performance our Defense. None of it however lets Dom off the hook from being accountable for this disasterous season. I dont know if this season is a true reflection of his coaching but it is clear he is highly overrated as a D cordinator. If there is a true upgrade out there then Im all for replacing him.

    I think the real question this off season is what personel changes are going to take place above him. We need a new front office to be put in place or we will never find the sucesses of old in our future. Lets say for example a new president of operations is hired, he is going to want to put his own people in place who in turn will want thier own people under them. We may have a completly new team behind the scenes if this happens and right now I dont think anyones job is very secure until certain decissions are made.

    This team has been trying to use patchwork to stay competive for years now and it just has not worked out. It is time for Wayne to identify the cancer that plagues this team, root it out, rebuild it right, or sell it someone who will. The hard part for the fans is we are going to have to wait even longer to see positive results from this organazation.
     
  18. EightyTwenty

    EightyTwenty Don't laugh at the mule

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    Great point(s). Also, I'd submit that in today's NFL, it may be easier to find good players for this type of system in the draft than the system we're currently "trying" to run.
     
  19. EightyTwenty

    EightyTwenty Don't laugh at the mule

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    Agreed. For what he got paid this year, he didn't come close to delivering. If he's out of work next year, he could easily move to a similar profession and take up robbing stage coaches for a living.
     
  20. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Actually Dom Capers would rather run a zone defense. There is a misconception that Zone takes a lessor athlete to run than man to man. Nope! They have all played man in some form or another since high school. They can't get lost in that. Where the lessor athlete gets lost is in zone play. Every movement is exxagerated because the athlete usually starts in one direction and ends in another. It's not like man to man where all one must do is stay on the hip of another.

    So when the injuries mount and Capers doesn't trust his players, you will see more man to man defense. That is what we have seen too.

    I tried running zone defense this year with a bunch of first year players. I gave it all of one game and we played man to man the rest of the year. A bad zone player is no better than you or me watching at home - he just has a better view to watch the game. :up:
     
  21. EightyTwenty

    EightyTwenty Don't laugh at the mule

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    Good stuff. Personally, my favorite defense is/was what Jimmy Johnson used to run in Dallas (and Miami fairly well), which is a 4-3 with man coverage. You (obviously) have to have the right players for it though:
    - 1 DE who is a beast, and the other DE has to be "pretty good" (Tolbert)
    - 2 really good DT's
    - tough-minded, good cover corners with attitudes
    - 1 very good safety, and 1 adequate safety
    - linebackers who are smart and can RUN

    When I look at the current roster, frankly I see personnel that is closer to the JJ approach, then a Hybrid, but maybe that's just me...
     
  22. #1dolphinsfan

    #1dolphinsfan New Member

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    the is alot better D-coachs out there so if he want to leave he can
     
  23. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    The reason why you see that is because they are average.

    The fact is that it's difficult to see the culprit of a bad play in zone defense. The reason why it's so difficult to see is that you do not know who had what assignment. Man to man is simple to see. Therefore you know if someone is playing well or not. You can see that our Dolphins are not playing well. You just don't know who to blame. You would have to know the coverages for that and it would be obvious in film review.

    Here is the thing about JJ's approach. It doesn't take too much coaching to tell a fast guy to run beside a receiver wherever he goes on the field. All that takes is speed. It doesn't take too much coaching to teach a defensive end to run up the field chasing a passer neither. It doesn't take too much coaching to tell a 300 lb man to stand up another 300 lb man. And it doesn't take too much coaching to tell a fast MLB to run sideline to sideline chasing the ball carrier.

    The problem with that defense is that the one thing you are forcing the QB to do is throw it deep with your press man coverage. This is the NFL. He will nail it at least three times per game. That coverage is in Denver. That coverage is in Green Bay. They will lose. They will lose because they do not generate turnovers. They will lose because they cannot gather enough talent to stop the team with just as much talent on offense.

    In the NFL, you must use multiple Zone coverages. You must also use man to man coverage. Why use all of it? You are not trying to beat Kyle Boller. You could do that with man to man.

    You are trying to beat Peyton Manning.
    You are trying to beat Anthony Gonzalez.
    You are trying to beat Marvin Harrison.
    You are trying to beat Dallas Clark.
    You are trying to beat Reggie Wayne.

    So when you (as the DC) are marrying yourself to a coverage package in the offseason, you are also planning to teach your secondary to disguise their coverage. Because you have seen Peyton Manning dissect every one of the coverages you plan to use.

    What have I said here?

    Jimmy Johnson never impressed me as a coach. The talent that Jimmy Johnson assembled impressed me. With the NFL's draft and cap rules the way they are, I do not prefer a plan to always have the most talent.
     
  24. Believerinteal

    Believerinteal New Member

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    Jimmy Johnson for general manager!!

    When should the "Go away and get lost" party swing into full gear for Mueller?
     
  25. Zod once again I find myself in agreement with you about JJ I have never been impressed with his coaching but he does have a knack for identifing talent in the draft. I think he would be a good assest to any team in that particular department. I dont know if he would be a good GM or not but I think at the very least to hire him as a scouting advisor for drafts would be very benefical to us or anyone. I dont know if there is an offical postion like that in football but if not maybe one should be created for him or someoneelse who is good at evaluating the talent available.
     
  26. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    Remember JJ defense at Dallas? Young, deep, and cheap after the Boys won their second title Ken Norton and couple starters left via Free Agency and 'Boys defense did not miss a beat.
     
  27. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    Well maybe if I talk long enough I can give you something to disagree with. :up:

    I think we have a man in charge of personel that can get the job done. I have not heard one argument that holds water in demeaning the job that Randy Mueller has done. The man is responsible for this offseason and nothing more. Moreover, he has overseen changes in the Dolphins Personel Department just this year. This article is dated June 18, 2007. Notice that these changes are after this past years draft and it was well into free agency.

    http://www.miamidolphins.com/newsite/news/top_story.asp?contentID=5219

    What this article did not say was that George Paton and Scott Kuhn were shown the door. This is the same George Paton that Dave Wannstedt when speaking of his hiring said - "George is bright, he is a hard worker and he is familiar with our grading system,". Does anyone want any part of Dave Wannstedt's grading system? George Paton was a leftover acquired from the Wannstedt Chicago Bears. George Paton was evidently just collecting a paycheck as Director of Pro Personell. Did you see an NFL player acquisition worth mentioning during the Wannstedt era?

    Rick Thompson got Scott Kuhn's job. Rick Thompson held the same job for the New Orleans Saints for the past seven years. He is our NEW college scouting coordinator.

    The point is that there has been change in the personel department. Best of all there was change at the top. You will not find a perfect GM but you will find GM's that tend to find more talent than the next guy. I think Mueller can be that guy and it would be too early to judge what he has done in his one year in charge. I like what I have seen so far though. The biggest issue I was worrying over was Lorenzo Booker until I saw how defenders he was decleating in the Miami mud Sunday.
     
  28. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I haven't had the pleasure of coaching 1st year football, but I have had the pleasure of coaching 1st year soccer players.

    They have a lot of difficulty with the concept of running to where the ball is going to be as opposed to running to where the ball is now.
     
  29. EightyTwenty

    EightyTwenty Don't laugh at the mule

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    I hear what you're saying, and agree with most of it. The one thing though that I liked more than anything else about the defense JJ built in Dallas, was their ATTITUDE. You are exactly right that you need talent to run that scheme, but it sure is fun to watch when you are able to assemble a roster like that, with the kind of mental makeup they had. It was just a straight up, simple "we're better than you, and we're going to kick your <bleep>". That's probably the single ingredient I see missing with our current roster - mental toughness.
     
  30. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    good riddance.

    now he can continue in his career as a magician; after all, if taking a top-5 defense and turning it into a bottom-5 defense isn't enough to open for david copperfield, what is?
     
  31. Kudda

    Kudda Banned Troll

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    The feeling is mutual Dom. You suck!
     
  32. calfinfan

    calfinfan New Member

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    Let him go. It wouldn't take much to get the defense to perform better than he has.
     
  33. MarinoForPres

    MarinoForPres New Member

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    let capers go he hasnt showed me any thing that weighs fr me to want him to stay.
     
  34. FinSane

    FinSane Cynical Dolphins Fan

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    If Capers goes, is there anyway we can get our DL coach from last year in to coach the defense?
     
  35. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Possibly, but why would you want him? Dan Quinn is now the Jets' defensive line coach. Their defensive line isn't exactly a strength this year.

    My money is on John Pagano to become the next defensive coordinator if Capers leaves.
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Capers almost HAS to go, if we finish 1-15 or 2-14, there will be changes, Dom and Armstrong will be taking the train IMO.

    I like Rivera to take his place.
     
  37. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Taxi for Capers!!!
     
  38. Miamifins854

    Miamifins854 Finkle is Einhorn

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    who cares he didn't utilize his players to their full ability anyway. this defense would be top 15 if he learned how to use the blitz system
     
  39. phinfan0202

    phinfan0202 New Member

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    That could be a thought if Parcells was our GM or something like that. Former player on both the Jets and the Giants when he coached there i think.
     
  40. FINintheMOON

    FINintheMOON Moderator Luxury Box

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    I have seen that SABAN is looking for a job... How about bringing him in as our DC?
     

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