Jerry Jones, Charley Casserly and Gil Brandt come to defense of Ireland and Ross

This is just not true. The Patriots OL has been middling, buoyed by great coaching. Their defense, however, has been among the worst in the NFL since the second half of the 2006 AFC Championship Game.

These three are also false.

Roethlisberger is a legitimate HoF QB who often gets zero help from his running game, not that the running game actually has a measurable effect on the outcome of NFL games anyway. While the Steelers defense is usually among the best, he's fully capable of winning without them. Roethlisberger is the reason why the Steelers of the last 6 years have been so good.

Joe Flacco for his first two seasons was buoyed by the Ravens D, but they've actually slightly declined from previous years while Flacco has improved. He's not the best QB in his division, but he's never the worst QB in the playoffs. And, yes, that's an accomplishment.

Matt Ryan has one legitimate WR. The rest are interchangeable bodies who've not lived up to their purported talent level. And again, the running game has no measurable impact on winning, so saying that Matt Ryan relies on Michael Turner (who's constantly injured, by the way) to win is a warped view of how NFL games are won.

 

I'd love to live in a world where I can say a guy with 13 more TD's same amount of TO's, 1,700 more yards, and 5 higher QBR only "slightly" played better than the QB on my team...

Matt Moore played one top 10 defense the last 9 games and **** the bed. 6 of those games were against bottom 10 games. Every win he led us to was a ****ty team with a ****ty defense.

 

Pretty much. In fact, their OL has never really been that special. Tom Brady makes them look a lot better by getting the ball out before being sacked. Peyton did the same thing with the Colts. Rodgers and Rothlisberger have had some pretty ****ty lines as well. Patriots defense has been total **** for awhile, as you pointed out. That team is nothing more than Brady, Belichek, and some beast pass catchers at this point. I don't even think Belichek gives a single **** about defense anymore...

 

I wouldn't go that far. There are plays where Brady legitimately has all the time in the world and a five yard buffer zone surrounding him. Then there are plays where he's eating his own d*ck before he can finish his drop back. The Patriots OL is better (coached) than ours, at least. It's just not some elite unit that Bulldog apparently believes it to be.

Belichick cares about defense, he just continually whiffs on his defensive roster management.

 

Agree with everything except Matt Ryan having one legitimate WR. I think Julio Jones and Roddy White are both legitimate.

That being said, good points all the way around and these are just a few examples of why it's a mistake to focus on the trenches first and find the QB second. A franchise QB improves every other piece of a team. And that includes the defense.

 

Julio Jones can be legitimate, but IMO his rookie campaign was pretty underwhelming given the hype.

Precisely this. Getting good play out of the trenches on both sides is a must, but not at the expense of quarterback play.

 

I didn't see what adding Superbowl winning QB had to do with anything so I ignored it. Not even you are that naive to think not winning a SB in the first 4 years of a career means anything. Matt Ryan is a franchise QB, and Atlanta will be a title contender for the foreseeable future with him getting better each year, and the team being able to build around him instead of doing it the Dolphins fail way of trying to build a team without a QB.

Nice try again. But it's more fail on your part. Parcell's didn't take blame for anything. He took blame for he, Ireland, and the scouts. Surely you couldn't have missed that part where he said "WE".

“One of the reasons WE took Jake Long is that he was a surer bet,” Parcells told King. “Quarterbacks, you just don’t know. They’re so hard to predict. It’s easier to project how good a tackle is going to be, and a left tackle plays a pretty important position.”

Look up "we" the next time you're near a dictionary. Actually, I'll do it for you.

He did take full responsibility for Pat White.

As for me hurting the site, too bad. We need a dose of reality here to offset all the blatant homerism that runs rampant here. It gets boring posting on the other site where everyone else lives in reality and realizes how bad Ireland is and agrees with me all the time.

 

They're not bad. But they're not the elite unit that people have made them out to be. Statistically speaking, much of the low sack/hits numbers have to do with Brady's pocket presence. They've always been good.

 

I don't know about that. 59 catches for 959 yards and 8 TD's in only 13 games is pretty damn good for a rookie. Would of been one of the best rookie seasons I've seen in some time if he played all 16 games. Hell even with what he had. I do however think people give too much credit to he and White though. Somebody has to get these WR's the ball to produce those numbers.

 

I get it now. You're in denial.

There are other links, in this thread that show Parcells taking credit for Long over Ryan...he says "I" and everything.

You go on a big winding sandy vagina ***** session about SB winning teams and their franchise QBs. So I ask you what SB winning franchise QB has Ireland passed on. You herp derp Matt Ryan.

So here we are here's the various things you've cried about that have been proven false, just in this thread alone:

- Ireland drafted Long. False. Parcells takes credit for it.
- Pouncey was a Parcells-like move. False. Parcells has never taken a Center in the first.
- Either Ireland drafted everyone the past 4 years or he's done nothing. False. Following your, frankly stupid, logic every employee is either allowed to do whatever they want or they get paid to fetch coffee.

What am I missing guys?

 

He said we, he said I. Which is it? You don't know. Neither do I. Claiming Ireland wanted Ryan is false until you can prove that.

Building up the trenches is certainly a Parcells move yes. You worded it wrong though. I won't hold it against you.

That comparison makes no sense. Allowed to do whatever or fetching coffee? Ireland was either helping with decisions/scouting players or he was doing nothing at all that pertains to the football team. There's nothing else he could be getting paid for. Here's a better one...

Ireland is a car salesman in a car dealership going out of business. The reason it's going out of business is because Ireland is failing to sell cars. The reason he's failing to sell cars is because he's either really bad at convincing customers to buy cars, or because he's sitting in his office watching porn all day, not talking to potential customers. He's failing at his job either way.

 

You said it:

Alright I'm done. I hope the mods realize you aren't trying have a debate/discussion and that you're just trolling. I mean that's proof.

You're a troll trying to start ****. I hope you are reprimanded. I'm no longer going to feed you.

 

Jeff Ireland getting me back on his good side isn't some impossible task. All he has to do is draft BPA. We need talent, and taking BPA, preferably pass rushers/pass catchers, is the best way to do it. I'll be impressed if he drafts Weeden in the 2nd. I won't hate it if he takes Tannehill at 8 since at least he took a chance instead of going the safe route yet again. I'll be very impressed if Tannehill pans out. Of course the best way aside from Weeden whom I really like is taking BPA throughout the draft, landing our inevitable top 5-10 pick next year because we are obviously rebuilding, and taking a QB next year. Matt Barkley won't be the only one worthy. Tyler Bray and Aaron Murray are 2 to watch. Tyler Wilson and perhaps even Logan Thomas as well.

 

Like I stated in the post above yours, he was either making decisions/scouting players, or not doing anything at all that's supposed to be required of an NFL GM. Fetching coffee was tongue-in-cheek, but you already knew that.

Yes, yes, let's hope the mods reprimand me for not agreeing with you. Thankfully this is a Miami Dolphins message board, not a dictatorship.

 

The reports about Ireland's duties throughout his time here with Parcells were pretty consistent. Ireland was in charge of UDFA and CFL scouting. He had input on the draft, but Parcells had final say. Parcells didn't use it all the time, but he was more involved with the early round picks and he always had a special project or two. We don't know who they were specifically beyond the reports before the draft that Parcells was leaning towards one of the Long's and that Ireland was pushing for Ryan. Back then the big joke was about how Ireland only had the GM title in name to get around the hiring rules so that's why I was sure that Long would be the pick. The other pick we heard about was Pat White. The talk before hand was that this was one of Parcells' special projects and Parcells confirmed after the fact that it was his pick. So it's not an all or nothing thing with Ireland. That's only the simplistic way of looking at things. He was basically a director of scouting with more draft input, but not final say and he was given free rein on the UDFA and the CFL.

 

Fair enough. We don't know who agreed with what. Time to just leave it at that and take a wait and see approach.

 

Poor Matt Ryan with Jones and Gonzoles as secondary targets.

 

59 rec for 959 yrds (17.8 per) and 8 TDs, with Roddy White, Turner, and Tony G getting their touches too, and you call that underwhelming... wow.

 

Somebody has to get them the ball.

 

So will the guys who only want to consider Ireland's last draft as "his" explain why he was only able to add one season long starter to a 7-9 roster?

And why he ended this year's free agency needing to find more starters in this draft than when he began?

I figure to have a prayer this season even with an easy schedule, he needs to find 3 fulltime starters in this draft: WR, FS or SS, RG or RT, plus a QB to develop. And this assumes no major injuries.


Exactly what about last year's draft makes anyone think he is capable of doing this?


These questions avoid the Parcells crap which is unanswerable.....

 

A rookie and an aged tight end who should have retired two seasons ago. Yeah, that sort of qualifies.

 

Why should Gonzalez have retired two years ago? He's still a very productive and effective receiving TE.

 

Please, 80 receptions.... clearly time to hang them up.

 

134 recs, 1834 yrds, and 15 tds.

 

this thread is funny! R&R had his lunch money taken away and got pushed down!

 

I did like Ireland's first off-season with full authority. I criticized him a bit for the Bush signing (I wanted Sproles), but I think he got that one right. In the draft I think Pouncey is a top 5 talent at his position. I think that DT looked like a stud before the hamstring troubles. And I think he'll do even better going forward in an offense with more zone blocking. I think Clay and Wilson were nice finds who played well as rookies. And I think that Gates was good value, but the book on him has yet to be written. Same with Kearse. IMO this draft should end up with between 3 - 5 players that will be either starters or at least heavy contributors in their first three years. (Anybody who has read my draft posts has probably figured out that my draft philosophy is all about who will be the best player in three years and going forward and that I couldn't care less about the first year stats). If he gets that much out of every draft, he'll go down as a great GM, assuming that a franchise QB is among the successes.

 

And that's the real trick isn't it? He can be the best GM in the NFL at every other position in the draft, but if he can't obtain a franchise QB he will have failed.

 

Out of all the QBs drafted in 2003 (including 4 1st rounders), who has had the most success? The one who wasn't actually drafted, Tony Romo. How much did Ireland have to do with Romo's evaluation & signing when he served as one of Dallas's national scout?

 

That's why I am appalled at the suggestions that we try to trade back and risk getting our QB later or worse take some late round long shot and hope for Barkley next year. I understood not getting a QB last year. The draft broke in a way that there were none worth taking at our spot and with no second rounder trading up was practically impossible. But this year you have four QBs that most would say are better prospects than all but Newton last year (Luck is obviously the best prospect in decades). Missing out this year is simply not an option.

 

Edit: I cannot read

 

Can you read in pink?

 

I have no idea. Until/unless he finds the Miami Dolphins a QB I could care less about what he did or may not have done in Dallas.

 

read in what? lol.

 

Did I see someone above say that NE's defense has been horrible since the 2006 playoffs? Ranked 4, 8, 5, 8, 15 in points scored since (respectively) - I can only imagine the day when our scoring offense ranks so highly. I don't think "horrible" will come to mind.

 

You totally missed the point of my post. It's no wonder why you're so angry about everything and at everyone. And did you not understand where I wrote, "yes, you need a good QB to win"? Or are you just arguing for the sake of it?

 

The first part of your post is so wrong that I have to assume that you're either lying to be funny or getting your getting your info from someone who enjoys pulling your leg and you fell for it...hook, line, and sinker. I mean, I'm so sure that you're joking that I won't even bother with that part.


The second part of your post is nearly equal to the absurdity of the former part, but I wil touch on it a bit.

Steelers:

2004- 2500 yds rushing w/16 TD's- Def ranked 1st...Ben-2600yds passing w/17 TD's...Throws 3 INT's in the playoffs to end the season.

2005- 2300 yds rushing w/21 TD's- Def ranked 3rd... Ben- 2300 yds passing w/17 TD's... Completes 40% of his passes w/ 2 INT's in th Super Bowl-They still win

2006- 2000 yds rushing w/16 TD's, Def ranked 11th... Ben-3500 yds passing w/18 TD's...miss playoffs

2007- 2200 yds rushing w/10 TD's, Def ranked 2nd... Ben- 3100 yds passing w/32 TD's...throws 3 INT's in playoff game to end th season

2008- 1700 yds rushing w/16 TD's, Def ranked 1st... Ben- 3300 yds passing, w/17 TD's...250yds 1 TD and 1 INT...still win Super Bowl

2009- 1800 yds rushing w/10 TD's, Def ranked 12th...Ben- 4300 yds passing, w/26 TD's...miss playoffs

2010- 2000 yds rushing w/15 TD's, Def ranked 1st...Ben- 3200 yds passing, w/17 TD's...throws 2 INT's in playoff to end the season

2011- 2000 yds rushing w/13 TD's, Def ranked 1st...Ben- 4000 yds passing, w/21 TD's...completes 50% of passes with 1 TD and 1 INT in playoffs to end the season. (He was injured)

Do you see a trend with Ben? If not, let me know and I'll fill you in.


Flacco is an average QB. A "slightly declined" Ravens defense is better than half the defenses in the league. Besides, since Flacco has been in Baltimore their defense has been ranked 3rd every season. That's not a decline. Again, are you joking around or is someone pulling your leg?

One "legitimate" WR? Are you joking? Either you're joking or you think every WR should be Jerry Rice or Randy Moss. Matt Ryan has talent all around him on offense. To even suggest otherwise is foolish.

 

This.

 

I disagree with all the bold.

1. As good as Ben is, Pitt's defense is even better. A franchise caliber defense has just as much impact as a franchise QB, and in Pitt's case their franchise D is better than their franchise QB.

2. Ravens went 12-4 last year with the 3rd ranked scoring D. They won in spite of Flacco's 19th rated QBR (80.9), 22nd in yards/attempt (6.7), and 25th in completion percentage (57.6%). Flacco regressed in every passing category, so I'm not sure where you come up with him "improving". Balt's defense didn't decline; it allowed the exact amount of pts/game that they averaged the past 3 years, 16.6.

3. I'm sorry but you're wrong about Atlanta. In past threads I broke down a full season's worth of Falcon snaps, and it was quite clear that as Atlanta's ground game went, so went Matt Ryan. I also broke down how Atlanta more frequently used the run game to set up the pass and typically did so early in games; however when they failed to successfully do so, Ryan and the passing game frequently ran into trouble. Calling it a "warped view" is inaccurate. You also seem to act as though having one great receiver is insignificant.

Also, Julio Jones was far from just some interchangeable receiver. How do you come to that conclusion after he had a 959 yard, 8 TD season [despite missing time from injury]? The guy made some big plays for that offense that helped them win games. Matt Ryan was in an offense surrounded by talent.

 

So you're saying R&R is still in Junior High School? That would mean he is 12 or 13. Unless he got held back a couple of years.

 

HAHA! Too funny man. Great stuff!