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Dolphns Draft on #MockFour in the Books

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Started out with picks: #008, #042, #072, #073, #103, #145, #196, #215
    Ended up with picks: #008, #021, #091, #138, #145, #164, #196, #215

    Trades
    1. Dolphins give picks #042, #072 and #103 (798 points) for pick #021 (800 points)
    2. Dolphins give pick #073 (225 points) for picks #091, #138 and #164 (198.8 points)

    Trade Comments: Initially it looks like I got hosed on the trade down from #073 to #091, however it should be noted that trade downs were much more desirable than trade ups throughout the Draft. Teams trading up generally did so on the cheap. When my trade with the Ravens from #073 to #091 was announced, the Colts GM, who picked 10 spaces above my #073 complained that if he knew the Ravens were offering that kind of price tag he'd have moved from pick #064 to #091 at the same price. Early bird got the worm. On the other hand this suggests I got hosed for paying near full chart value on my move up from #042 to #021. I can only say that this was a judgment call on my part, that teams wanted to trade down but not necessarily 20+ picks down and out of the 1st round altogether. I also needed the Bengals to agree to this trade before I made my pick at #008 overall. I needed to overwhelm him with value nd get him to agree, and actually felt lucky he accepted chart value.

    Strategy Comments: As alluded to, I negotiated the trade up from #042 to #021 BEFORE I took Quinton Coples at #008. This was imperative. I knew the Cleveland Browns GM was very open to taking Weeden at #022, so I knew that no matter what, I needed to be picking before him. I was willing to accept the risk that the Browns trade up for fear of me trading up, but I was not willing to just blindly take Coples without knowing if I could successfully make a trade. If the Bengals hadn't agreed, I had an offer on the table from the Eagles and would have taken that, then grabbed Weeden at #015. Once I agreed with the Bengals, I requested we keep the trade a secret until his pick came up at #021 overall, because I did not want to induce the Browns to trade up to #020 or earlier.

    I sent out smoke screens with the aim of convincing the Browns' General Manager and Assistant GMs that I was not convinced they would take Weeden at #022, but recognized they could take Brandon at #037 and therefore I aimed to trade up from #042 into "the late 20's or 30's". I sent out Twitter requests for offers from interested GMs to this effect. I also, at one point, jumped on phone text and pretended to have accidentally botched ta DM to my assistant GM, writing "DN PFF_Alex Have you heard back on #29? He wont take BW at #22." I then went on twitter 10 minutes later and deleted the tweet, to further the perception that I'd accidentally aired a private message into public. Later, when I got Weeden at #021 overall, the Browns GM and AGMs all admitted that 1) They were going to take Weeden at #022, 2) They were in negotiations with #020 overall on a move up because they feared I might trade with the Bengals, 3) They scuttled thales trade talks in large part because of my smoke screen tweets, including the 'accidental' tweet that I deleted, which they all saw before I deleted it.

    As for my trade down at #073, I wanted to recoup some of the picks I had lost trading up for Weeden, and I had a feeling Broyles would still be there at #091. I personally have a little more trouble seeing value in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of this Draft as opposed to the 4th and 5th rounds. Therefore, I really didn't see much issue in trading UP and out of the 2nd round, and trading DOWN and nearly out of the 3rd round.

    The Picks

    #008. DE Quinton Coples, North Carolina - The Dolphins need a permanent fixture at defensive end opposite Cameron Wake. Coples is the only elite end prospect in this Draft, having shown the consistent ability to dominate blockers and command extra attention. Production issues were more systemic than talent-driven. Very safe, high-floor prospect. Even if he does not develop into a premier pass rusher, which I firmly believe he will, he will have been more than worth his rookie contract money due to his ability against the run. Questions of effort are extremely overblown at this point, with plenty of film-based evidence that specifically refutes this accusation. For a lazy player, he can be found running 30+ yards down the field an awful lot, just in case he is needed. Lazy run defender is a contradiction in terms. As for lack of production, I found he directly caused 19 plays to end in zero (3 plays) or negative (16 plays) gains against Virginia Tech, Miami and Missouri. The losses he personally accounted for, be it in the interception he caused on a QB Hit, the fumble he forced, the two sacks, the numerous tackles for loss, the few plays where he knocked his blocker so far backward, totally destroying the run play, ensuring a loss, and the two holding penalties he drew, all added up to about 100 yards of loss, over the three games. That is production. Having 2 Sacks, 3 Hits and 11 Pressures on the QB in three games is production. I'm intrigued with what he can do from a pass rush standpoint if pulled out to wider splits more often.

    #021. QB Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State - Coming away from this Draft with a premium talent at the quarterback position was of the utmost importance. I will admit, I got cute and risked that by taking Coples without knowing for 100% certain I would end up with Tannehill or Weeden, however given the agreement I had in place at the time I took Coples, I felt the risk was worth it. Brandon Weeden is the best pure thrower in this Draft, bar none. His ridiculous Sports Science segment wherein he went skeet shooting with the football knowing 5 square inch targets out of the sky as they travelled 44 mph across his field of view, illustrates three reasons he is the best thrower in the Draft. It isn't just arm strength, but also accuracy, timing and rhythm. As John Brenkus stated, Brandon had to be accurate on his timing to below 0.01 seconds in order to hit those clay pigeons. Being off 0.01 seconds would've resulted in missing by six inches or more. It took Brandon six tries before he got the timing down, but then he hit 4 of 5. That kind of precision, not just pure accuracy (ball going exactly where you want it to go) but the timing aspect of it, not to mention the uniform release time it takes to count on your timing, just blows my mind. There aren't five quarterbacks in the NFL that could have done that. The down side with Weeden (aside from age) is obvious and well out. When successfully pressured, he lacks the same improvisational skills as Luck, Griffin and Tannehill. Tally the stats, and that will be the conclusion. However, this concerns me a lot less, knowing what I see on tape as far as Weeden's tendency not to get successfully pressured and knowing his own role in that. His recognition of defensive formations and intentions is superb. He anticipates problems before they occur, and always knows what he is doing with the football. This allows his pressure handling strategy to be finite instead of indefinite. Instead of pulling the ball down and doing something crazy to make people miss and buy whole seconds of additional time, he knows what he needs and buys the fractions of seconds necessary, bring totally unafraid of creating extra distance, worse angles or bad leverage, because his arm is just that good. His blitz recognition and planning for dealing with the blitz is outstanding. In short, you can be mediocre at handling unexpected pressure in the NFL from the standpoints of scrambling, completion percentage, yards per attempt, etc...as long as you are an expert at preventing things getting that far. That is the kind of player Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are, it is the kind of player Dan Marino was, nd it is the kind of player Brandon Weeden is.

    #091. WR Ryan Broyles, Oklahoma - In my view, Ryan Broyles was clearly a borderline 1st round pick, possessing of one of the widest arrays of skill sets at the position, prior to a knee injury late in the 2011 season. Only three months after ACL surgery, Broyles was able to run a 40 yard dash in the 4.7's. Five months after surgery, he ran in the high 4.5's. Fully healthy, I estimate he is between a 4.45 and 4.50 player. I hate the comparisons between Broyles and Davone Bess. They are totally off base. Broyles is a faster player tht hurts defenses with his speed, and regularly wins on the outside and deep. Broyles shattered the NCAA record for career completions for a reason. By taking Broyles, the Dolphns get a good receiver while also giving guys like Bess, Hartline and Gates adequate chance to show what their value will be in the new offense, as Ryan is not likely to be in peak shape until 2013. Then again, even when not in peak shape, he may make his impact felt. He's that good.

    #138. OT Donald Stephenson, Oklahoma - Stephenson stands 6'6" tall with 312 lbs on his frame, 35 inch arms and 10 inch hands. He ran a 4.94 second 40 yard dash with wide receiver-like 35.5 inch vertical and 9'6" broad jump measures. With that frame and that kind of athleticism, having started at left tackle for two seasons at a major program like Oklahoma, it would be a shock to see Stephenson available at this stage of the Draft. He only allowed one sack in 2011, when highly rated Florida State defensive end Bjoern Werner timed Landry Jones' snap count perfectly and did not even give Stephenson a chance to get properly into his kick slide. Donald has some work to do in the weight room and must improve his conditioning so that he can play in the second half of games the way he plays in the first half. However, his superb lower body explosion makes him a perfect fit for the Miami Dolphins' new scheme, and I like that he really commits himself to his block, shooting and using his hands very actively.

    #145. OL Tom Compton, South Dakota - The Dolphins need a complete overhaul of the offensive line. The players that were acquired under Tony Sparano, who preferred large, strong and slow people-movers, are not going to cut it in Joe Philbin's scheme which requires more agile, explosive zone blockers. Players such as John Jerry, Nate Garner, Ryan Cook and Ray Feinga may play victim to the regime change. Richie Incognito may not be long as a starter on the team. Recently acquired Artis Hicks is 33 years old and only a short-term band-aid. The Dolphins need a youth movement and with the additions of Donald Stephenson and Tom Compton, they will be adding explosive players with large frames and excellent agility. Compton is a two year team captain, an All American, and he can play tackle or guard in the Dolphins' scheme.

    #164. SS Winston Guy, Kentucky - Winston Guy was drafted by the Miami Dolphins to help fill the void left by Yeremiah Bell's contract termination. Guy played on the line at what really amounted to an outside linebacker position in Kentucky's defense, but also pulled out to the perimeter for some man coverage on wide receivers, and on passing downs would drop back to a deep safety position. Prior to installation of the new defense, Guy played a more traditional safety position. At only 215 lbs, he played the run from linebacker alignments better than most 240+ lbs true linebackers in this Draft, and accumulated 100+ tackles in both the 2010 and 2011 seasons. In coverage against South Carolina and LSU, I saw only two passes completed into his coverage responsibility. Though commonly credited with a 4.70 "official" 40 yard dash time at the NFL Scouting Combine, I re-timed him myself at about a 4.60, and his agent tells me that scouts have shared feedback with him on their hand-timed results which were consistently in the low to mid 4.5's. I have a vision for Guy as a sub package player in the Miami Dolphins' dime defensive packages, which is exactly how Yeremiah Bell originally made his presence felt with the team.

    #196. TE Chase Ford, Miami (FL) - Chase Ford was virtually non-existent in the University of Miami passing offense. However, he came out of Junior College at Kilgore as a highly rated JUCO transfer. He showed up at the East-West Shrine Game practices, attended personally by the #MockFour Dolphins General Manager, and dominated. He moved very well, made catches in heavy traffic, and flashed speed and strength after the catch. Tape of him at Kilgore showed the same attributes. Best of all, what he showed in the practices translated to the game, as B.J. Coleman found him in the seam for a nice catch in heavy traffic, followed by the breaking of two tackles and a speedy run after catch for big yardage. Standing almost 6'7" and 255 lbs, with the ability to run a 4.75 in the 40 yard dash, with a 33 inch vertical, Ford defines the seam threat at the position. He needs to work on his blocking, but he showed potential when having to block top rated end prospect Quinton Coples when they met. Ford is highly underrated and the Dolphins are happy to take him here. He would hardly be the first gifted athlete in recent memory to go under-used and under-developed at The U, only to go on to a more successful pro career.

    #215. DE/OLB/TE Taylor Thompson, SMU - In the 7th round, the Dolphins have decided to go bargain hunting. Taylor Thompson measures a full 6'6" and 259 lbs, and ran a 4.55 second 40 yard dash at his pro day. He jumped a 37 inch vertical, and benched 22 reps. He forced 6 fumbles in 2011 as a defensive end, with 7.0 sacks, yet was recruited as a tight end and played that position at a recent All Star game. The Dolphins will take a look at him as a multiple player they can use at outside linebacker in odd fronts or defensive end in 40 fronts, but depending on how he looks there, they could also take a look at him as a tight end. He has a lot of natural talent and hopefully his quirky attitude does not get in the way of developing that talent.

    Priority UDFAs (All currently undrafted as of pick #217)
    CB Leonard Parker, San Diego State - Player I have done a lot of work on, can stay in the hip pocket of any wide receiver and questions about game speed had to be answered when he outran Denard Robinson from behind. Ridiculous ball awareness, caught 7 interceptions while playing without much safety help all year. Despite questionable size, matched up one on one with Ladarius Green in the end zone on fade passes and defended both tries.

    RB Jonas Gray, Notre Dame - Prior to tearing his knee up, I thought he was one of the best RBs in college football. I would like to keep him hovering around the program a few years to see how he recovers from the injury.

    RB Fozzy Whittaker, Texas - Highly underrated speedster out of Texas, also with some medical issues, but with hidden value as a return man. Was little used on returns, but when he was used he made a huge splash.

    WR Danny Coale, Virginia Tech - Very underrated guy that stands a solid 6'0" and 200 lbs, ran in the 4.4's in Indianapolis, and also put up a good 6.69 second cone drill. Sort of a poor man's Devon Wylie, or perhaps a rich man's Ryan Whalen.

    OT Jeff Adams, Columbia - It boggles my mind that he is as of yet undrafted in #MockFour, but if he stays that way as we close out the 7th round, his agent would be among my first phone calls of the day. He has a ton of god-given athleticism on that 6'6" and 306 lbs frame, and he played very well at Shrine practice. Very smart player.
     
  2. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Not really high on Coples. What did the first round look like?
     
  3. seabass0795

    seabass0795 New Member

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    Jags got Cox i think. But yea I agree, I'm not so high on Coples either. If they want a pass rusher I hope they get Ingram
     
  4. Killer Bees

    Killer Bees Bringin' the Ruckus

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    I think Ireland is too high on prototype physical measurable's at the Defensive Line position to take Ingram.
     
  5. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Jags drafting another DT? I don't see it. PLenty of big bodies this year.
     
  6. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Weeden and Broyles I definitely like. I figured he'd be down low due to injury. Ford is interesting for sure, but I'm surprised at the doubling up on linemen but I don't know much about those guys. I'll defer. The biggest surprise to me is only drafting one receiver. Would Broyles, Bess, and Hartline be enough (not counting Naane)?

    EDIT: Thinking about it, the linemen make sense in light of the Bills moves coupled with our poor play last season.
     
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  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    It is my hope that with Parcells out of the building, we can sign some UDFA pass rushers who are not "prototypes" as that moronic approach is the equivalent of reducing the available pool of talent by 60%.

    Greg Cosell called Coples a less athletic version of Carlos Dunlap.
     
  8. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    Stephenson, Compton, and Adams would be a great O-lineman haul. Weeden would make my draft. Getting Coples, Ford, and Broyles would be icing on the cake. Great draft.
     
  9. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    Sounds like you had a blast with this :up:
     
  10. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Honestly not that high on Coples, Guy or Ford....but it could be a much much worse draft. With the exception of those three, I would be ESTATIC!!!!


    Being the glass 1/2 full type of guy, I see him being either this, or another JPP in the making. I honestly think where he ends up will largely determine how well Coples does.
    IF JPP had ended up with anybody besides the Gints, no telling how well he actually would have done. That was an ideal scenario for both parties involved.
     
  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    AZ, I think he may be one of those players who stays glued to blocks and disappears in games tbh about it.

    I wonder if Coples problem is not "motor" it is that he just is not that athletic, he can feast on poor quality competition put a major Div I starting Olinemen on him and he lacks the physical skill to win the matchup consistently.

    JPP on the other hand, was loaded with physical prowess he just lacked experience, he always had the fastball and imo that is what every potentially dominant player has to possess to excel as technique only goes so far, and you can learn technique and produce just off of physical prowess at first, w/o that prowess you become Ryan Baker.
     
  12. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I honestly have only seen a handful of clips of Coples, but what I did see reminded me much of JPP. I saw a lengthy extremely athletic big-man. Kind've reminds me of Reggie White Re-Dux to be honest....but that was only a handful of handpicked clips.

    Coples wouldn't be my first pick, or even 5th, but I would pick him over Tannehill any day of the week. At this point, any MOCK that doesn't have us taking Brady Quinn Part Deux is a win IMHO.
     
  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Reggie was 300 pds and ran a 4.5 or so, different body type as well

    Put Coples on the inside and his liable to get his long legs cut out from under him, put him outside and he lacks that explosive athleticism to give the tackle problems in some ways he reminds me of Tyson Jackson.
     
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  14. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    One of the Jags starting DT's got into a bar fight and took a bottle to the eye. He's having eye surgery and there's a good chance he doesn't start this year leaving a big hole up the middle.
     
  15. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Nice work CK, that's impressive.
     
  16. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Between Ford, Clay, Thompson, and Brown we'd certainly have some athletic talent to work with at TE (and Fasano isn't a slouch athletically either).

    I don't know if we'd be like Green Bay and keep 5 though.
     
  17. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    I would take that draft .If we only can be that lucky.

    YES I prefer Brandon Weeden over Ryan Tannehill
    YES I like Ryan Tannehill a lot and would take him #8
    NO I will not approve of Cousins, Lindley, Osweiler or Foles as 'the answer' at QB [​IMG]
     
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  18. PhinPhanatic

    PhinPhanatic New Member

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    Ck you think we would need to trade up to get Weeds? If so I would rather trade up with NE, who always wants to trade down and has 2 firsts would be a welcome target.
     
  19. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    RE: Coples comparison - He's more Richard Seymour to me than JPP. That's not a bad thing either.
     
  20. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I am okay with the Weeden pick but I HATE the Coples pick. I think Coples will be a complete bust at the NFL level. I watched him play several games last season and I just didn't see the consistency you are referring to. The only thing consistent about his play last season was his inconsistency.

    I agree the Dolphins should take a defensive player with the 8th pick, especially if they are able to make the trade you envision and are able to pick up Weeden at 21. The defensive player I would prefer is, Luke Kuechly, who I feel would come in and be a starter and impact player at the LB position for the next ten years or more.

    As far as the Dolphins being able to move ahead of the Browns at 22 and taking Weeden. If the Browns are really targeting Weeden at 22 and they see the Dolphins pass on Tannehill at eight. It would not surprise me in the least if the Browns decide to use this 22nd pick and a later draft choice to move up in the first round just to ensure they get Weeden. It would certainly be easier for them to trade this pick in the first round in an effort to trade up than it will be for the Dolphins who will have no first round pick to use in an effort to trade up into the 21st spot or higher.

    Of course if the Browns really aren't that interested in Weeden and don't intend to take him in the first round, the Dolphins just might be able to move back into the first round with a later pick and still land Weeden. It should be interesting.
     
  21. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    First of all, why would you WANT to trade up with a division rival and help them? Second, the whole reason to trade up was to jump Cleveland at 22. Both NE picks are later then that, so it wouldn't help us.....
     
  22. seabass0795

    seabass0795 New Member

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    If we get a defensive player that high it would be a DE/Pass Rusher. I'm going back to the idea that I will always stick with until the draft, we should get Ingram. He could easily fit as a DE, and him and Wake would wreak havoc. Those who say he is undersized, well so are Cameron Wake and Von Miller. Wake is 6-3, 250 lbs, 32 inch arm length. That is with 1-2 inches of both the height and arm length of Ingram. Wake succeeded and nobody ever mentions his height or arm length, they just talk about how explosive he is. Well so is Ingram, he is like a young Wake. Put them opposite of each other and we wreak havoc on qbs and it would be intense
     
  23. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    Nice draft, I like how you handled it with the trades. A couple of questions though.
    If Cleveland passes on Tannehill at #4 and the Dolphins pass on him at #8 who do you see taking him before Cleveland's second pick at #22? Why wouldn't Cleveland take him #22 if he is still there, or do you think the Browns rate Weeden higher than Tannehill?
     
  24. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Like I said plenty of big body DTs in the draft. They could easily get a fine player in round 2. They should go DE or WR
     
  25. seabass0795

    seabass0795 New Member

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    mockone.net/
    This website is the one with the draft
     
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  26. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I would be fine with Ingram at eight if that is the player the Dolphins target with that pick. I just happen to think that Kuechly is the best defensive player in the entire draft and he will be a star player in the league for at least the next decade. Ingram would certainly provide a quality pass rusher to complement Wake, so I could see the Dolphins lean in that direction since that appears to be more of a need for the defense than a LB.

    Ingram or Kuechly would be positive picks at eight, while I just don't see Coples as an impact player in the NFL in the future.
     
  27. seabass0795

    seabass0795 New Member

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    Yea I agree on the fact that Kuechly and Ingram are both positive picks. I would prefer Ingram because of the whole idea that we need a pass-rusher. However, both could easily excel extremely well in the league
     
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  28. Jcouch1021

    Jcouch1021 New Member

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    I like the draft CK generally listen to you on fins radio ( knew you were all about weeden, and convinced me) I hope you don't mind letting me redraft right here based on your moves and picks..
    8. Michael Floyd. As much as I'd love coples in aqua/orange we could grab a hopefully (elite) wideout right here.
    21. Weeden, I wouldn't change a thing with this. I'd love that red headed rocket arm in Miami.
    91. Broyles. Another pick I love. Him, Floyd and weeden can really change our offense to what we need. Playmakers.
    138.Senio kelemete, good strong guard out of Washington. Helped Polk rush for a lot of those yards.
    145. James Michael Johnson. SILB. Guy can play. Strong and fast.
    164. Jean-Baptiste Baylor DT. Big, big man, we can put behind Starks.

    Last two picks I like a lot as well.

    In my scenario, as stated we are playing Wilson at safety this year. Which I like. Also I want to see Odrick at DE.
    I would have traded hartline away for a 5th-6th this year as well. Floyd, broyles, bess, Wallace, gates... Sounds good to me speed guys, size guys, with Fasano,clay,Ford at TE. Long, incognito, pouncey, murtha, Jerry. Suring up the line. Bush and Thomas out of the backfield.
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Good to have the Azman back eh Pod
     
  30. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Never know with the Jags. I had them in the Club Level draft and I didn't take one until the 4th in Randall. I went with WR Michael Floyd in the first, DE Vinny Curry in the 2nd, Ben Jones (2nd best center in the 3rd), DT Kheeston Randall in the 4th. And GIK picked up a RB in the 5th (Wasn't available and told him to go RB or RT challenger for Eben).
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't believe JMJ was available at 145 or i would have certainly taken him.
     
  32. vmarcilfan75

    vmarcilfan75 blah...blah...blah... Club Member

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    id give you 2 fist pumps just for being sneaky with the tweets/txts during a mock draft.
    nice moves :chuckle: :knucks:
     
  33. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    That is a good draft. I don't think the Jags need to invest too heavily round 3 or 4 seems right for a DT for them.
     

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