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Per Twitter- Merling Cut

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Bumrush, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Every great player not taken at #1 the year they came out has been passed on by at least one team.
     
  2. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Here it is: Cam Wake.
     
  3. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    A lot more than that. There have been plenty of threads on this topic.
     
  4. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So has he done anything worthy of criticism or not? And his overall record of acquiring talent is what, in your eyes?

    I'm not suggesting that all GMs don't make mistakes. They do. but the ebst ones minimize those mistakes and make up for it in other ways. You should be finding solid starters in the 2nd round. We haven't done that. You should probably be finding starters in the 3rd as well. We haven't really done that either. That's why we're in rough shape.
     
  5. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I think he's shown to be above average in terms of talent acquisition, good enough to not warrant being replaced unless you can guarantee you're replacing him with one of the elite GMs in the NFL (Reese, Newsome, Ted Thompson). Certainly he's had his misses, but I don't have any major gripes. My biggest issue would be trading two 2nds for Marshall.

    We're in rough shape because this organization stood by Chad Henne for far too long. The reality is that Ireland has had tough luck with the 2nd round, but at the same time he's found solid starters in the late rounds and as UDFAs. My main point is that its not fair to say "he should find X in Y round". If he had drafted Kendall Langford instead of Philip Merling, he would have found a solid starter in the 2nd round, but the overall record wouldn't be much different.
     
  6. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    The GM and scouting staff have done an awful job of selecting players in the second round of the draft who have come in contributed over the last four years. Merling, Henne, and White were all wasted draft picks and Koa Misi, Sean Smith, and Daniel Thomas are all players who have been average to below average players who were selected far above where they should have been in the draft.
     
  7. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Oh look, another thread that turned into Ireland bashing and people playing the hindsight game of "LOOK AT THESE GUYS THAT WERE PICKED AFTER OUR PICK!!!"

    Yawn.
     
  8. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    He's the only impact player on the team.

    EDIT: I'll add Reggie Bush to that as well. He was a good pickup.
     
  9. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    *looks at Dolphins roster*

    Indeed.
     
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  10. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    How else would you measure the 2nd round picks?

    The only way to measure it by who was taken and who was passed over.
     
  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Why would you measure 2nd round picks by themselves, in a vacuum, without any context?
     
  12. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    this is how I saw it pretty much but I think he might go before 8
     
  13. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Right, if you're limiting "impact" players to skill-position guys and pass-rushers.
     
  14. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A team with above average talent doesn't go 7-9, 7-9 and 6-10 or start 0-7. Sparano wasn't a great coach, but he wasn't that horrible. Ireland has drafted one true star, Jake Long, and perhaps he shouldn't even get credit for that. Other than that, he's picked some solid guys (Vontae, Odrick, Smith, Pouncey) but no real game changers. His skill position acquisitions have been spotty, his best being trades. His free agent record is pretty poor, outside of Dansby and I guess Burnett.

    He is very good at finding UDFA types, but even those are not stars witht he exception of Wake. I like Bess, but there are plenty of guys just like him throughout the league.


    Well, he drafted Henne didn't he? Or do you give him no credit/demerits for that? And again, your "solid starters" are only starters in some cases because we don't have anybody better. Would Hartline be a starter on many other teams in the league? Would Fasano be a starter on a really good team (and he was a trade)? Ditto Clemons and Jones?
     
  15. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Well, NE has had a ton of 2nds the last few years and have very little to show for it... I think every pick is a crap shoot, even Luck and RG3...There were a lot of folks who said the same things about Manning and Leaf in '98. One team missed and didn't recover for several years after that.

    I guess the caveat with Ireland is where do you draw the line from Parcells to him, TS to him, and the lockout to him and now to have to change his style to accommodate Philbin...What moves that weren't good should Ireland be held accountable for and which moves that were good should he be held accountable for. Of course, the Irish nay-sayers will point to every move [or lack thereof] because of his title and his 4 yrs here. The others will interject Parcells, Sparano, lockout, new HC, etc...

    It's pretty obvious that Ross has decided to go with the latter group and allow him to start anew...That's where we're at whether any of us agree or disagree. And besides all that, if he selects Tanny and the guy becomes the second coming of Chad Henne, it'll still be two to three years before we really will know... Ireland won't be canned the next offseason because Tanny spent the year on the bench or that he was put on the field and failed this year...
     
  16. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're speculating that Ireland was forced to follow the Parcells blueprint. I'm speculating that he was and is a willing participant and true believer in the Parcells blueprint. Why would Ireland break away from the teachings of his very successful mentor?
     
  17. jinx

    jinx Well-Known Member

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    Merling is a good example of BPA not always being the best strategy. The Dolphins drafted him without really knowing where he fit on the defense. He was always considered a tweener. Not athletic enough to play 3-4 OLB and not strong enough to play 3-4 DE. I remember the post draft press conference and they couldn't say what position he would play.
     
  18. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I do think teams can have a record that doesn't match their talent. Look at the Eagles last season. A lot of times circumstances affect one team more than another.

    I agree on Sparano.

    Had there been no lockout last year, and Matt Moore became the starter in TC, I think we probably win a few more games. Obviously if Pennington was able to stay healthy, we probably win a lot more games. The teams record with/without Henne is very different. Unfortunately circumstances dictated that Henne get more starts than anyone would have liked. I don't think Henne should have ever been the starting QB, but I'm not sure how much of that blame should be given to Ireland.

    And I disagree that Pouncey or Odrick are just "solid guys". Pouncey is one of the best centers in the league as a rookie, and Odrick is a guy that will be one of the best interior rushers in the league. I'm not sure how he shouldn't get credit for Long though. Looking at the history of #1 overall picks, Ireland did a good job with it. Also keep in mind that there is still a lot of young guys that haven't become "impact" players, but have shown potential. Certainly its conceivable that guys like Vontae or Jimmy Wilson become "impact" players. We're definitely in a better position from that standpoint that a lot of teams.

    Also, you're leaving out free agents such as Pennington and Randy Starks. I'm rarely a fan of free agents, but I think if you put his record up to most GMs, then you'll realize how bad free agents usually pan out.

    He definitely did draft Henne. He deserves blame for missing on a 2nd round QB. I think Hartline is a starter on almost any team. I dont think Clemons and Jones are. But either way, I think if you go to through the roster and say "who needs to be replaced" you will find as many holes as you will for almost any team. The problem has been at the QB position, and IMO if we just eliminated Henne from that equation, we're talking about 9-10 wins instead of 6-7. For a team that pretty much had 0 redeemable talent when Ireland came here, thats pretty solid IMO.
     
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  19. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    So far we lost Starks, Merling, Bell and JT. Who have we aquired on defense besides Marshall? Seems like another heavy draft for the D when we also need a WR and OL help.
     
  20. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I don't think its fair to expect any rookie to have much of an impact or replace anyone we lost. I think if you're looking for guys to step up and fill voids, you have to look at guys already on the roster. Odrick, Davis, Wilson, Misi, etc.
     
  21. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm not speculating on anything. I have beaten my head against the brick wall over and over by saying we don't know what power Ireland had and since we don't know how can we blame him or blast or praise him.
     
  22. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Ireland is on PFT right now talking about Merling. He's basically saying that there was issues with him last year and thru this offseason that they didn't like.
     
  23. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Starks is still a Dolphin

    Lost Langford.
     
  24. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We'll have to agree to disagree on some of this, particularly Hartline, but I thank you for being intellectually honest and crediting/demeriting Ireland for stuff that happened while PArcells was here. Too few do that.
     
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  25. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's a total cop-out. Its a handy way to defend Ireland without defending him. At the end of the day, you're defending the guy. I've seen enough. No need to throw good money after bad.
     
  26. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That's bull**** actually.

    I've given plenty of reasons to say we don't know. You given herp derp.
     
  27. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Comparing the Patriots and Dolphins drafts is a joke. The fact is that the Patriots have won the AFC East division the last three years and have combined for a regular season record of 37-11 over this time period. The Dolphins on the other hand have finished in third place in the AFC East during each of these three seasons and have combined for a 20-28 record over this same period.

    It is obvious based on the records of these two teams that the Patriots have done a far better job in selecting talent in the draft than the Dolphins.

    As far as Ireland selecting Tannehill in the first round, I may be in the minority on this forum but I will be very surprised if Ireland drafts him. I think Ireland will go for a pass rusher or another offensive lineman with his first round selection and he will draft a QB later in the draft. I think the Dolphins are planning to go with the Moore/Garrad combo in 2012 and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Ireland feels Tannehill is not worth a high first round selection.
     
  28. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I can see why they would want to look beyond those years. Ireland has said that Parcells straight up eliminated some guys from the draft board he wanted. I think the years with Parcells are still generally a fair representation of Ireland overall. But I do think the last year would be more accurate. The problem is that just going off one year is a rather small data sample.

    In regards to Hartline, he reminds me a lot of Deion Branch. I think his skillset is rather underrated. But I certainly can understand if people want to disagree.
     
  29. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Right. Because the Patriots have a team thats been built through 10+ drafts. Over the last few years, I don't see how you can see the Patriots have been better at acquiring talent. They're living off what they've done long ago.
     
  30. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    More fuel to the fire. Ireland said on PFT live today that they were not aware of the Koa Misi incident until the charges came. No wonder Koa is in the doghouse. Expect him to be added to the cut list at some point.
     
  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Actually he said the incident happened over the lock out and wasn't sure Misi even knew there was a warrant.
     
  32. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I don't see how you even think the Dolphins are anywhere close to the Patriots in talent. Perhaps you just want to ignore the 17 more wins in the regular season the Patriots have in the last three years than the Dolphins. The Patriots, just like every other team in the NFL have had misses in the draft. They still have far superior talent to the Dolphins right now and each teams record is proof of this.

    The only starter on the Dolphins drafted in the second round is Sean Smith. Koa Misi is projected at this time to be one of the Dolphins starting LB's but they are looking to upgrade the position and replace Misi as the starting LB. Last year he actually played less then a very old Jason Taylor.

    The Patriots have five players listed on their 2012 depth chart on the starting units who were drafted in the 2nd round over the last four years. These include, Chung and Spikes on defense and Verren, Gronkowski, and Vollmer on offense.

    The Patriots have drafted five players in the second round in the last four years who are now starters for them and the Dolphins have only two players starting from their list of second round draft picks over this same time period. So while I agree the Patriots have been better on draft day over the last ten drafts, based on the projected starters in 2012, it appears they have also done a much better job than the Dolphins in the last four years, especially in the second round of the draft.
     
  33. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    For those of you worried about the risk of drafting a QB high, the risk is just as high when bums like Merling don't pan out. At least with QB an attempt is made to try and address the most important position on the field. When a medium-impact position player makes no impact, it's a disaster.
     
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  34. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    B/c Parcells was far from being his only mentor... and that he wasnt even a "Parcells guy". He was on the staff when Parcells took over in Dallas, and Parcells just retained him b/c he viewed him as a fantastic personnel man.
     
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  35. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    So what Merling is gone. He was just camp fodder anyways.
     
  36. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I don't think the Dolphins are close. I only said they have been better at acquiring talent the last 4-5 years.

    What is the purpose of limiting your analysis to only the 2nd round??? Not to mention that its a lot easier to mention 2nd round hits when the Patriots have drafted 10 2nd rounders in the last 4 drafts.

    I'm also not sure how drafting "starters" is necessarily a good thing, considering someone has to start for the team. The reality is that while Brandon Spikes is a starter, that doesn't mean he's by any means worthy of praise as a good draft pick.
     
  37. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    thomas was hurt. cant render judgement yet
     
  38. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    And nothing of value was lost.
     
  39. Phins28

    Phins28 Up the Irons

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    No he was playing World of Warcraft in that draft.
     
  40. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Agreed no big deal for the Dolphins , they just used the 32nd overall pick on a guy that contributed little and was cut . No worries.
     

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