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my 2 cents reg:QB's

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by my 2 cents, Dec 18, 2007.

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  1. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    Since we are nearing the end of this miserable year, I thought I would add my 2 cents about each position group and my fantasy of some scenarios. I will start with QB and add other positions later. Again this is all for what it is worth.

    QB’s:
    Green: should retire but definitely should not return. Dolphin management would be taking a needless risk with a guy that had a good career and has a family and concussion issues. Marginally effective in spots but not going to provide even a stop gap. Would probably make a good coach. Probably will not be back.

    Lemon: Possible stop gap, makes some nice throws and some where you wonder about his arm, which is supposedly good and his cerebral cortex. FA so it comes down to how much you are willing to pay. FA signing period is before the draft so we could see someone overpay a bit for his services. I would try to re sign at a reasonable rate, if not let him walk.

    Beck: Sure QB’s need time to develop but I have not seen many tools that make me think he can be any more than Cleo Lemon. I have seen the same things that I saw in most games against good competition and the AS game his senior year. Questionable ball handling, poor pocket awareness, and average at best arm. I READ about his great arm, but I have yet to see it. Also posters are all over the board regarding his intangibles, one minuet he is a “gun slinger†the next an “effective game managerâ€. I see a guy that did not take ANY chances, lacking confidence and then when he tried to do some more he failed miserably. Sorry guys do not see it…hope like hell I am wrong. And before flaming me this is just what I see. I understand other’s see it different and Beck debate is not the purpose of this post.

    Casey Bramlett: Based on College career. Good arm and he actually is a “gunslingerâ€. Takes a lot of chances but had the arm in college to get away with it. NFLE proved he could step up some. No NFL chances so hard to evaluate, but based on what I saw and you will roast me I am sure for this…has more “tools†than John Beck on the field…not sure about his tools versus Beck when they are both in shorts, and really do not care. Again, I am well aware I will get flamed and called an idiot but I can only go on what I have seen, not what I read. Reminds me of Shaun Hill coming out of Maryland (and we saw what he could do for the 49ers)…strong arm,good size, moves fairly well, limited reputation, but worth seeing more of….don’t count him out as a guy that suddenly shows up out of no where when he gets a shot.

    FA/Draft: This team has too many holes to pick a QB early when they (not me) are sold apparently on Beck, just not going to happen. However there are some 2nd tier QB’s that can be had in the later in the draft that have tools, and also the possibility is there that one of the top guys slides to pick #32 (Andre Woodson?): JDB (too streaky for me but great arm, worth a pick if he slides some to the 3rd or 4th), Ainge (limited field awareness, locks on), J. Johnson (good luck controlling this guys improvisation), Flacco (poor man’s Drew Bledsoe, great arm and slightly less mobile than the Hiesman trophy), Morelli (bonehead decision maker), and Henne (What’s missing?). Of the “top†guy’s I would take Henne before the others. Again most of you will disagree but from what I have seen three of my favorites for a down the line draft pick are: Matt Flynn, a gamer that handles the pressure of LSU well, has good mobility, team responds to him, good field awareness, checks down well, good arm and game manager…flame me now but seems to have some Tom Brady in him, confident as hell. Paul Smith from Tulsa is athletic, good mobility, accurate, good arm, throws outs very well with zip and timing, see’s the field and has good timing, reminds me of a much more talented Tyler Thigpen (I live in the Carolina’s and saw a few of CC games). The last guy is probably a FA type, but I am very impressed with Ben Mauk from Cincy. Has an injury history but seems to have all the zip back on his fastball. Confident, accurate and fits the ball in small spaces. Excellent field awareness and has a “feel†for the game. Problem is he is around 6’ to 6’1, has the arm injury history and does not have the “touch†of Smith or Flynn. Also played at Cincy not LSU. I like this guy as a #7 or FA type guy….As for UFA’s no one walks in as the answer as is generally the case so you are gambling on guys particularly at QB this year. The one obvious name that there is significant disagreement on is Rex Grossman. While he is inconsistent he defiantly has tools and is still fairly young. The price tag will be the question as to whether or not you go this direction, he is frustrating but can make all the throws. Quinn Gray is the more intriguing guy to me, he has shown all the skills at the NFL level but never been put into real meaningful situations for an extended period. Definitely cheaper than Grossman and has a good upside although he would not walk in as the answer to our QB issues. Jax may keep him. A developmental guy that is also intriguing is Jared Lorenzen who seems to have gotten himself together and has the arm, size, mobility to be a decent QB, but has never gotten the opportunity. He is also developed from what little I can see from a “field presence†standpoint…but PS games count for little…see John Beck. A restricted FA guy that offers some all be it little experience at the NFL level is Ryan Fitzpatrick. RF does not stand out in any one area but he is above average in most all the skills an NFL QB needs..arm, awarness, smarts, poise, touch and mobility…he just does nothing Extremely well and does nothing terribly. Another Developmental guy to keep an eye on IMHO is Ingle Martin currently on Titans PS. He may be looking for a better opportunity than playing two more years as a #3 behind Kerry Collins and Vince Young. It will be interesting to see how quickly or if he signs a futures contract after this season. He definitely can make all the throws, very strong arm, and good touch, played at low level in college (Furman) but has looked good in PS games and again has all the tools, but no experience.

    My plan would be: Re sign Lemon prior to draft, continue to hope Beck shows more, target Jared Lorenzen or Ingle Martin as FA and Matt Flynn in the 4th round. If we cannot/do not resign Lemon then I would make Rex Grossman our target and again target Flynn in the 4th or Smith in the 6th . If you do not get a Flynn or someone in the middle rounds then play Casey Bramlett some early in PS and see what he has. As you can tell I like both Paul Smith and Matt Flynn in the middle rounds and using higher picks for other positions more than targeting a top guy earlier than the fourth.

    I really like Matt Flynn, a great example is watch Flynn then watch Eric Ainge, Flynn responds to pressure and makes clutch throws and has the “it†factor, where Ainge despite having a better arm, better size, and looking better in his underwear is not near the QB that Matt Flynn is. Ainge eyeballs his primary guy and throws a lot of 2 reciever routes where as Flynn goes down progressions and takes the under when he cannot throw down field where Ainge goes 1,2, and throw it away or take a sack. Flynn also has the quicker release. So in essence I would be happier with Flynn in the 4th than with Woodson at #32. We could use #32 for another position.
     
  2. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    I think we see the QB position very similarily. I havent seen anything from Beck that even closely resembles the preseason hype on the guy from people on Finheaven. Everybody acted like we got the steal of the draft with the guy. I didnt see BYU last year so I was willing to take their word and anticipated seeing this kid. He looks like a future combination of Rex Grossman, Brian Griese and Jay Fiedler to me but if given four years to develop maybe he'll turn into Tren Green. Unfortunately he's about the same age as Trent

    Disagree about Trent a little (think he was the most effective when he played but agree its time to hang em up. Would love to have him as a QB coach) , agree with Lemon (consistent accuracy is going to be a lifelong problem for the guy)

    Also agree with alot of your assessments of college QBs. You have seen some I havent seen like the guy from Cincy but I think you were spot on with Flacco and Ainge. Disagree with Henne, I just doubt he ever puts it together.

    Also think this idea that we cant draft a QB in the first because we have more needs doesnt make sense. Its not like we are prevented from drafting for the rest of the draft if choose a QB in the first. Every other position other than maybe safety has very good pro prospects that can be had in the 2nd and up. QB is the one position that dries up dramatically once you get into the 2nd round
     
  3. SMOKE

    SMOKE Member

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    I want Lemon back. Green will most likely retire and I don't want to bring in some vet who has no experience with our offense and someone who couldn't cut it somewhere else. Lemon knows the offense and can be an effective starter, if needed. I just wish he'd make quicker decisions. If he wouldn't hesitate to react so much, he could be a good qb.

    The only way I think we'd draft a QB on day one is if a different coach is running the show. If Cameron gets canned, I could see the new coach wanting to bring in his own guy. I have no idea where that would leave Beck though.
     

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