1 win and everyone changes their tune

Very pleased with the win as a pure Dolphin fan but I certainly do not let Cam off the hook at this point.

 

I for one never said I wanted Cam fired. I never put him on a hook, so I really can't take him off one.

 

RRRIIIIIGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHTTTTTTTT...


After sane people would display that this roster lacks experience and talent. After sane people would debate every point by point with those who just wanted change for the sake of change,,,,,,

..........the debate declaring Cameron's incompetance always ended -

HE SHOULD AT LEAST BE ABLE TO GET A WIN. HE CAN'T EVEN GET A WIN.

 

we had the ball with less than a minute left in the first half and the Ravens ended up getting a field goal attempt. that was inexcusable in my books

 

Not me, One win still means we underachieved more than any other team in the NFL, its was nice to win but honestly we were lucky as well otherwise we would be 0-14 and facing NFL history.

Against a horrible ravens team we were in a bear fight to the end, we should have won but 14 easily.

There are some who wish to keep cam, Im not one of them in fact it's even more clear today he is not the long term answer we are looking for, but Wayne will not react and we will have at least one more year for him to turn it around.

 

That makes two of us. I believe that only the "instant gratification community" are the ones that are having a hard time dealing with the victory yesterday since they somehow think that this means that Cam gets to keep his job. I don't think that one win mattered either way......Wayne would have given Cam another year to get his system in place (history has shown us that Wayne is loyal to his head coaches). Sunday only accomplished a couple of things: 1. It kept us out of the history books; 2. It gave our players a reason to hold their heads up again. Let's see if they (the team and the franshise) can build on that vistory.

 

What's the hobgoblin of little minds? A foolish "change for sake of change"?

Just because you'd prefer to think that excuses make Cameron a good head coach, it does not mean that those who don't agree with you are not "sane". Nor does it make Cameron a good head coach.

The bottom line if that we won't know if Cameron is actually a good head coach unless (a) he comes back as head coach again next year and (b) he actually does something as a head coach that a good offensive coordinator couldn't do.

 

I think Cameron has done a great job overall all year keeping this team competitive even though we were outclassed every game talent wise. He had the guts to gut the team i his first year as rookie coach which is phenomenal to me considering our last three coaches were to scared to do what should have been done years ago. THE guy has brought in the best offensive scheme we've had in a long time and when he gets some talent at QB and WR you're going to see our scoring go dramatically up. The offensive line has made great strides under him and Houck. He's had some miscues but nothing that would make me worry about his overall grasp of the game. If we get another draft like the last one and add a few players through free agency 8-8 wouldnt be out of the realm of possibility though 6-10 would be more likely.

 

"its was nice to win but honestly we were lucky as well otherwise we would be 0-14 and facing NFL history."
If we're going to go with the "luck" factor we could just as easily be 5-11. And as far as the injuries go other teams have had them too but consider who our injuries have been to.QB,on his way to the Pro Bowl RB,both starting LB's,both starting safeties,not to mention both our top receivers are gone due to trades.

 

I have wanted cam to stay to whole time

 

I never said Cameron would be successful. I just gave him the benefit of doubt with THIS particular group. The fact is that I saw something funny in the reversal of fortune.

"HE SHOULD AT LEAST BE ABLE TO GET A WIN. HE CAN'T EVEN GET A WIN."

..and now the reverse argument was being used to state the same thing.

Why not just say, "I think this coach is incompetent. I can't prove it but I think he is incompetent."

And if you say that, it means that you do not have to say it again (in another way) in another thread. One could just move on and discuss something......I dunno, uh, positive?

 

We should have beaten the Ravens easily? We got stomped by an even worse Jets team, yet the Ravens should have been an easy win...

Unbelievable...

 

Make no mistake, it would not come as a surprise if Cam was fired after this season and replaced with a Marty S type of HC.

If one thinks about the situation, we have the same problems that we had in 2006, only with worse Special Teams and Defensive Units and "some" younger players as answers.

That said, Cam did lead us to that "one win, just one win" and we have been decimated by key injuries, as well as the lack of depth due to the draft debacles.

 

I am not changing my tune. In fact the only reason I don't want Cam fired is because it just seems so bush league

 

I never wanted Cam fired, and these threads do nothing to change anyone's mind. Sure, you want him fired, we don't need a new thread every hour.

 

Some of you guys sure the heck do have on Aqua Glasses.

Wayne has proven of the last decade of ownership that he is unable to put the right people in the right position to turn this franchise into an Elite team. Ever since Don Shula left we have been going down hill. Thats plenty of time to get something done right and it jsut has not happend.

Wayne should sell the team, I would be happy with a new owner who has just spent a billion dollars to get this team. He would surely be interested in putting the right people into the positions that are needed.

The entire front office needs to be cleaned out, the coaching staff needs to be overhauled.

 

Fair enough. I think this head coach is incompetent. I can't prove it but I think he is incompentent.

 

Our Defense played well for only a quarter and half (3rd and half of the 4th) and our O did nearly nothing, it took until OT to get a passing TD. Our first since the Giants game. We are very lucky to have been playing the Ravens, any other team would have beaten us.

 

Can we enjoy our high for just a little while longer before we crash back down to earth? No? Ok...

You win with talent. Coaching makes a difference, but not nearly the difference it's perceived to be. NE didn't start Super Bowls with their "genius" head coach until he stumbled upon Tom Brady. You get a franchise QB and then you build around him. That's how you find success in this league.

You don't trust Mueller? I'm curious...why? The '07 draft was the first he had full control of with the Fins. Look at what's been done so far:

1 Tedd Ginn - Has the potential to be a dynamic WR. He's already forced defense and special teams units to adjust simply by him being on the field.

2 John Beck - Mueller, Cam, and our QBs coach, who are all well respected for their knowledge of quarterbacks, believe he has all the skill sets to become a successful QB.

2 Samson Satele - For those who don't remember, we got this pick from the Pats for Wes Welker. The trade worked out great for both teams. The Pats could afford the luxury of giving up the pick and paying a 3rd WR that kind of money. An anchor at C is much more important than a WR, and are harder to come by.

3 Lorenzo Booker - Already showing flashes. He along with Ginn will help provide the offense with more explosiveness.

4 Paul Soliai - Project. Hasn't shown much yet.

6 Reagan Mauia - Already starting and making an impact.

6 Drew Mormino - From what I remember, he was on his way to a starting job before he got injured during the offseason.

7 Brandon Fields - Rookie punter. He's had his ups and downs.

7 Abraham Wright - Not sure what's going on with him. Someone help me out here.

After seeing his last draft above, and looking and Mueller's track record, why don't you trust him again?

 

IR.

I liked the way Cam coached that game. Despite the refs missing the pass interference that should have given us a go ahead touchdown early, the team stayed in it.

Should he go? I don't know anymore. He found a way to win without a real threat at running back. A lot of times it wasn't his fault - Cleo running out of bounds to knock us out of field goal range, Feely finding the endzone at the wrong time.

0-16 would have been an automatic get out. But, with an ability to win and high draft picks, this could get turned around. We had a good draft, despite Ginn over Quinn. A stud guard or defensive lineman, along with a healthy team, could make Cam a winner.

 

I agree, I still think Cameron and Mueller need to go. I don't know if I could stand to see them around for another draft.

 

I have said Cam and Mueller deserve to stay another year unless they went winless and that isn't going to happen so they both deserve to stay another season to try and rebuild this mess of a team. I also like what this past draft has brought this team which also shows Mueller can evaluate talent.

 

Personally, I think Cam and Mueller should get 1 more year. However, if they went winless, I would've been open to getting rid of both. If the team does not looked improved next year however, then we should start to question both he and Mueller's ability to build teams. When the players all huddled with Cam at the end of the game, it spoke to me. I dont think it was for PR purposes. I think Cam is starting to get some of his guys behind him. We have to hope so, because the one thing this team more than talent, more than improved coaching, is hope. Let's hope Cam figures this head coaching thing out, and we can at least be competitive next year. Let's hope they take this game as a starting point and learn from this year.

 

Heh ,well, my feelings exactly. I want to see Mauia be that Juggernaut we all were told he is. I want to see Satele develop in the leader of this O-line. I want to see Solia eat Rbs and terrorize Quarterbacks. I want John Beck to break Marino's records(ok, thats pushing it). I want Lorenzo Booker to be the X-factor in passing situations(and heck, be a change of pace back). I hope Mormino comes back from injury motivated and ready. And most of all, I want Ted Ginn to burn NE's secondary next week.

 

the win is wonderful, but i don't see any logical reason to change my thinking as regards cam.

fact remains that we made history nonetheless, since no team other than the '76 bucs had ever gone 0-13 either.

and as i stated in my earlier thread, that requires a special level of ineptitude. cam has to be held accountable for that as the field general.

fired? i don't know about that. but he certainly has some explaining to do.

 

Bro, you just answered your own question right there. One game in this case is massive to say the least, and will play on everyones emotions. It's not about one game knocking us out of palyoff contetion, or one game losing the AFC East. It's about not being haunted forever more as the worst ever.

 

Just an early Christmas present... decisions will have to be made..., but it isn't Cam's fault that the team has no back-ups when the starters fall like stars..., we need to re-evaluate the QB position or at least bring in "real" competition for Beck...,

1. Trent Green was Cam's worst mistake...
2. drafting Ginn over Okoye or Willis was the second biggest problem...
3. Cam is not solely responsible for losing half the games by just a few points...

 

Ginn was a mistake (opinion) at no.9 but you know what he'll pan out..., he is first round talent..., we could have used a Densive Stud like Okoye or Willis here..., but when you are in the top 5 pick you go BPA..., so is everyone going to be down on Mueller if he goes Offense here...?

 

Exactly. Some people seem to protect Cam like they're protecting their little brother from the school bully.

Cam won late, that will help him. If we had beaten the Redskins and then lost 13 straight I don't think anyone would be defending him.

 

Rev, you must have not caught this in your film review.


Follow my instructions here. As soon as the video starts look at the Dolphins emblem in the middle of the field. You will see the free safety standing there. As in all television broadcasts, they zoom in too far for us to fully enjoy the game. Let me assure you that the Free Safety will not move from that hashmark until the ball is snapped. He doesn't want to show his coverage.

Rewind the video to the start again. Look at the bottom of the screen on the Dolphins side of the ball. That receiver standing there is Ted Ginn Jr. There is a cornerback standing right in front of him.

Now watch Greg Camarillo run his route. Camarillo caught the ball three yards from where the Free Safety took his original alignment. So you ask yourself, "Where did the Free Safety go?"

When the video reaches 18 seconds, pause it. You will see the free safety reappear. Right behind the free safety is Ted Ginn Jr.

So what does all this tell us?

Ted Ginn Jr. had a cornerback aligned on him. The Free Safety rolled his coverage to Ginn. All Cleo Lemon had to do was watch the free safety run over the top of Ginn. The rest is history.

Cameron called the play.
Lemon threw the pass.
Camarillo caught the pass.

Ted Ginn Jr. is demanding the respect it will take to cover a receiver with world class speed. He is doing this as a rookie. These are the plays that we never see. Most do not see it because they do not know what they are looking for. Some do not see it because they do not care to admit that we have never seen a receiver with this kind of speed. Ginn was worth the pick if it was just for this one win alone....

[ame]http://youtube.com/watch?v=JBi-osw9eeg[/ame]

 

Nice Zod, Ted Ginn is basically our only offensive threat right now, that 50 yd pass earlier in the game really loosened things up for us.

The ravens more then likely (IMO) simply didn't want Ted Ginn to beat them with one play.

That is "why" I say Ted Ginn is more valuable to us then Calvin Johnson is to the Lions.

 

This was just one of a few points that many of us were trying to make about Ginn before the draft.

 

Not to knock the film review or anything, but do the Ravens still roll that safety to Ted Ginn if Chris McAlister and Samari Rolle are playing?

 

"The beauty of the football offense was that it allowed for a smart strategist to compensate for his player's limitations. He might find better ways to use players, to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. He might even change the player's sense of themselves." - Michael Lewis, The Blind Side

This is an excellent quote from one of my favorite books about football. He brings this point up in reference to a team that is lacking premium talent. The writer talks about how Bill Walsh, in his early years, was able to win with the lowest payroll and talent level in the NFL.

Now, please tell me what CamCam has done to earn another year? Yes we had major injuries, but what has he done to adjust for this? What strategy did he employ to deal with the personnel issues? Does he need superstars like Tomlinson, Brees, and Gates to be succesful? Because I don't see it. I saw a coach who has made questionable calls, with poor clock management, who can not motivate his team.

I was ecstatic that we won on Sunday, but one play does not excuse an entire season. I am never one for the quick fix, but I have not seen anything that warrants him to retain his job next year.

I'm sure a lot of you know more about this game than I do. So I ask you to please list the positive things that CamCam has done this season.

Cheers,
NSR

 

Spot on ZOD! People are too worried about stats but fauil to realize what Ginn brings to the team. Its not necessarily gaudy stats. Its the fear that he can beat you deep which we havent had in a long long time. This loosens up the defense in ways that arent so apparent. Great breakdown of how it works. I wanted Willis but I'm cool with the Ginn pick because we desperately needed someone to stretch the field. Ginn is developing very nicely and in a very far removed way reminds me of the days when we had Paul Warfield. We need to pair him up with a receiver that can tear it up in the ten to fifteen yard range

 

Cameron has done everything in the quote you listed. He has identified players' weaknesses, motivated them to minimize those weaknesses, and then played to their strengths. In a few cases, he took players who were by all intents washed up and/or done and revitalized them.

Cameron motivated Hadnot and Shelton to get into the best shape of their careers, and they've had a great year because of it. Hell, Hadnot is the leader of the offensive line this year.
Cameron took a washed-up Chris Liwienski and made him a serviceable left guard.
He moved Vernon Carey to arguably the second-toughest position in football and evoked a competitive "I can do this" attitude out of him that we haven't seen in a Dolphins offensive lineman in a long time.
He took a flailing and failing Jason Allen and in one meeting motivated him to put in the effort necessary to become a good NFL player, and the results are showing on the field.
He poked and prodded at Ronnie Brown until the beast within came out.

Cameron's had a wealth of success doing everything described in your quote. Here's the kicker: even with all of that success, this is still a 1-, maybe a 2-win team. THAT is how bad the Miami Dolphins have become.

Cameron walked into an absolute mess. He's only begun to clean it up. In five years, no one will recognize this team. Today's players who are still in their rookies will be accomplished veterans. The coaching staff will have things in a rhythm. We'll be competitive. We'll have some Pro Bowl players. We may even hit the playoffs a couple of times.

But it takes time and patience.

 

Cameron Positives

1) Fixed our salary cap problems in first year. I may be wrong but we will be in the top five of teams regarding salary cap space

2) Dumped older players who were overpaid for their production and werent going to be around once the rebuilding was done (Chambers, McMichael, Carter (who I liked and wanted to keep) Zgonia, Culpepper, etc)

3) Installed the best offensive system we have had in quite some time, possibly since Shula. Unfortunately we dont have the talent yet to execute it consistently but the playcalling overall is spot on. Granted there have been headscratchers but overall great

4) Got the offensive line to step it up a couple of notches. Still need one or two players but we're close. The Carey experiment worked well andf that was a very gutsy move. Houck should get the credit here but Cameron allowed it

5) Had the best Miami draft of the 21st century and brought along each rookie as his talent and grasp of the playbook warranted. Its pretty obvious this guy is going to be very good devloping young talent

6) Somehow got Jason Allen to play well, something that the guy who drafted him couldnt do. Wright also

7) Got the team to play its heart out throughout the season with a few exceptions here an there even after going through a nightmare injury year, learning a new system, having less physical talent than almost every team they faced and starting 2nd and 3rd stringers.

8) Killer year picking players off the waiver wire. Moses, Camarillo, Gado, etc

9) Kept steady and never freaked out when the world was seemingly digging his grave

10) Most importantly having the guts to work on the big picture, namely gutting the team of its overaged overpaid players, knowing that we would take a step backwards before we could go forward again. For a rookie head coach that is phenomenal guts knowing you have no track record to fall back on when the fans turn on you

 

Most of these points you made are player management decisions and could easily fall in the lap of Randy Mueller, especially when the media reported before the season even started that Mueller will truly have the decision making power that a real GM should (after being hamstrung under Saban).

Jason Allen was kept out of the games for so long. They started free agents that never stepped foot in the dolphin locker room before they put JA in the game, and the only reason he made it in the game was because the coaches felt they had no other options. Jason Allen was the one who stepped up. He is a gamer who doesn't show up in practice but does on Sundays.

I don't know enough about Offensive systems to say if this is the best we had in ages. What I do know is that we are in the bottom quarter of the league in Offensive team stats. I see an offense that can only work if our star players are in the game...well, injuries happen every year, and if a system is not working through injuries, then it is not working.

Staying the course is not necessarily the mark of a great leader (jeez that sounded way more political than I intended).

If Cam truly was behind all of the personnel issues that you listed, then I say keep him for one more year and see what another year of drafting will do. Otherwise, let's find the best coach to right this ship.