If you like Sanu as player more than you like Vernon as a player that's fair. FTR though, we weren't talking about specific players, we were talking about positions and which are bigger needs. I maintain that having a great player at the other DE is more important to this team than a great player at #1 WR.
I really, really hope you're right and I'm wrong on this one bro. I'd never be so happy to be wrong about something.
I didn't say you could be consistently awesome without a WR. What I do think ids you need to prioritize your needs. Out of 5 major needs (QB, TE, DE, S, WR) I see WR as the least important. Since there is only a finite amount of picks and spots on the team, if WR is left alone this offseason, so be it we can still be successful. Maybe not great, but I'm not expecting greatness this year anyway.
So, who are the best available WR's? I just found this, don't know how accurate it is. Dwight Jones | 6'4, 220 pounds | Wide receiver | North Carolina Marvin McNutt | 6'2, 215 pounds | Wide receiver | Iowa Joe Adams | 5'10 1/2, 174 pounds | Wide receiver | Arkansas Marvin Jones | 6'1 7/8, 198 pounds | Wide receiver | California Chris Givens | 6'0, 195 pounds | Wide receiver | Wake Forest Appreciate any thoughts or opinions from the board. Thanks, G
Yeah I see your point, I just see WR as a bigger need than you do. Other than the Martin pick, I just don't think we got good value with any of the other picks. I just think there were WR available that would've been better picks. Hopefully we pick at least 1 (hopefully 2) WR today. Of our 5 picks today I'd like to see: 2 WR S DL CB
Tommy Streeter and Nick Toon. Streeter I guarantee will develop into a dominant #1. Toon is just a guy that gets it done every single time he steps on the field. Any time I saw one of his games he was making big plays.
Marvin Jones from what I read seems like the type of player that would work well with Tannehill if he develops into an extend the play Aaron Rogers QB type.
Let me start off by saying it is NOT that I'm a Canes fan. I think Miller is a scat-back in the NFL and wouldn't have touched Sean Spence due to his size and a few other issues. Streeter does things that are difficult to teach. He is 6'4 and he PLAYS like he is 6'4. He uses his arm length extremely well to extend for the ball whether it's coming back for the ball and catching it in his hands or going up for the ball at it's highest point. Some players don't look as fast as they time on the field, but Streeter does. I've seen him split corner + safety coverage on a go route quite a few times, Jacory just never had the arm to utilize that speed. A lot of plays he had the defense clearly beat by 3-5 yards ended up as jump balls. A lot of which he won. The other thing I like is that he has EXCELLENT ability to use his body to shield the defender off on short routes and isn't afraid to go over the middle and take a hit. His route running leaves a bit to be desired at times but he is an extremely hard worker and I believe this is something he will be able to correct pretty quickly with proper coaching. Randy Shannon is the main reason Streeter is available now and not a mid-late first round pick. Our talent development at Miami has been pretty terrible. However Golden was able to help Streeter make HUGE strides in his game. I believe he can only get better. It's a lot like what Ireland/Philbin said about Vernon. When you actually watch him as a player it's pretty impressive, but for various reasons (mainly coaching and overall team talent on offense being low) he is available later in he draft.
Oh dont get me wrong I understand the other side. Tannehill is not the sure thing that RG and Luck are. But his ceiling is as high IMO. I believe had Tannehill had 1 more year and better receivers, he would have proven to be what Luck and RG have. That is also why I like that they wont rush him. I said since teh end of teh season, I think Moore is very solid in the short term and honestly hope Ryasn sits all year. I do believe he can play this year and will be ok, but I think the clearest path for him ( I think all qbs can benefit to some degree to sit, tho players liek Newton learn better playing, just a feel when on teh field) is to sit for a year, get some mop up time and not have teh pressure year 1. let the offense get installed and then 2013 we have teh system around him functioning and the support. Basically IMO A with his ceiling he is worth the investment, B - would not have lasted past Seattle, C - we had to stop playing safe and take teh risk of getting a franchise player which Tannehill can be. I like his attitude as well, humble but confident
I have to admit, when I've watched him, I come away with a blah feeling. Knowing his speed and size I just expected something that wasn't there...however, I must admit, you have sold me. When I asked that question to you, the one piece of information I wanted to know about what his work ethic, and you hit on it. Your right, with those measurables and talent, if he is a hard worker, his potential is very good. I hope we take him in the 4th now. Imagine taking 2 or 3 canes in one draft after ignoring them for so long.
The more I watch RGIII the less I like. His ball floats a lot even on short passes and that is a recipe for disaster IMO Luck is as close to sure as you will get though obviously.
It's easy to walk away blah from the games because our offensive system was so terrible when Shannon was here. Just about every time we had an important play in the passing game this year the name was always "Tommy Streeter" though. Like I said sometimes talent doesn't equal elite production. Not much he could do about a mediocre QB (won't be drafted), pretty bad offensive line and subpar receivers around him to take pressure off. The best being Laron Byrd who is just speed and nothing else....maybe a 6th/7th as a returner. Oh and though the use of it was limited in our offense, he has great sideline ability extending his hand and keeping both feet in. That is one thing I love in any WR because you really can't teach it, it's all instinct. Out of all the WR left he's the only one I think has the chance to be a real #1 target given proper coaching. The rest are all tweener great #2/below average #1 or #3's.
My favorite WRs left are Marvin Jones, Greg Childs and Devon Wylie.I also like McNutt, but less than the other three. I'm not a fan of Streeter. I just don't think he's a good WR. There's potential due to his size and speed, but I don't think he plays fast. He's not "sudden" enough for my tastes.
I would look for a guy with punt return potential as well as general receiving skills. Wylie perhaps. Didn't we end up using Bess again most of the time?
OH RGIII isnt a finished product by any means but his "flaws" are very correctable IMO. The floating issue isnt on all passes and he is still accurate. He is a qb that is a great athlete. His deep ball accuracy is among the best I have seen
I disagree, I would say that RG3's limited experience reading defenses and his poor pocket awareness make him far from a sure thing. That high bust factor is why I had Tannehill above RG3. IMO RG3 is the better college QB right now, but in the pros who knows? With Tannehill you have already seen a couple of vital NFL skills that you just haven't seen in RG3 yet.
Fair point, I disagree I think when you listen to RGIII he is very intelligent and will adapt well. I very well could be wrong, I just believe he has it.
I like this video because it shows some of his issues too. (Drops the first pass, a couple iffy routes) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjknASkh8lA 0:22 - Like the ball tracking ability. Also nice catch with HANDS downfield over the shoulder rather than a body cradle type catch. Dislike - ankle tackle from behind 0:50 - Again hands. Between the corner and safety he goes up, gets the ball and comes down with it. 1:20 - Willingness to go over the middle, take a hit and come down with it. Dislike - rounded off route. Like - Decent double move. 1:40 - Easy catch but it highlights what I said about going UP for the ball. 2:00 - Look how much Streeter has to slow down for Jacory. Rafael, this is why he doesn't play "fast" he could have outrun the corner/safety by a good 3-7 yards easy but he has to almost literally STOP for Jacory. Also LOVE the concentration with two defenders draped on him. On the hail mary at the end he could have gone up more physical, but I will never bash a WR for not catching a ball between two defenders. Sadly there were a lot better examples of his skill set in games but this is the only video I could find.
I'm inclined to think it's likely that he'll figure out the defense reading in time, but the pocket awareness I'm less confident about. That's what would have me most worried if I were a Redskins fan. From watching his games, RG3 just seemed to take a ton of hits where he never saw or felt the guy coming. Now he didn't get blitzed much over all, but he will in the pros and if he can't feel that pressure, he's going to look more like Gabbert did that first year than Newton.
Tannehill is also pretty intelligent and has already demonstrated the ability to adapt well. I like RGIII a lot, however I do think he is closer to Tannehill than he is to Luck when it comes to NFL readiness.
Bench reps aren't always (almost never) a good measure. Warren Sapp comes to mind....but hey I punched out 27 reps yesterday and at my peak (training just for bench reps at 225) my high was 40.
I just don't know about RGIII because they ran a lot of that fake option stuff first and second down. that's not gonna work in the NFL plus the fact that the game speed is much faster than college.
biggest surprise for me, and it seems the national media too... maybe Dolphins have something up their sleeve at wr? Trade?
I'll take the bait on this. Yes. In terms of talent at the position, I actually would say Moore (with Garrard) is a better option as a starting QB than Hartline or Bess are at WR. I am not saying we should not have drafted Tannehill; it was a decent choice. But, in the next few rounds we needed a WR as much as we needed those other options (the RT pick was solid). But, RB? Talented player with weaknesses but still ... ( I also think Tannehill will take 2 years to develop. Needs to sit the bench a year; or two (ala Rogers). If they rush him in, it could ruin him. A lot of good GMs in the league believe a number of QB's were talented enough to make it but were ruined by bad teams forcing them to play too soon). They may get lucky - but WR's are falling quickly in round 4 with Martin, Toon & Wright gone. Still 20 more picks to go at this posting before we pick in round 5. Who will be left that can truly compete and become an all-pro calibre player? We'll be fortunate to get a player who can make the roster once you get past round 4.
If we don't at the least get Streeter I will be pretty upset. I'm no NFL coach but it's pretty obvious to see we need more than we have currently at WR
I think the fact that we traded down means we are going to go for a reach at WR. Probably that Mayo WR from the small school.
Yup. They probably view that whole group of WRs as a reach so they figure just trade down and roll the dice.