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Does drafting Tannehill change your view of Ireland?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Apr 29, 2012.

Ireland+Tannehill, change your mind?

Poll closed May 6, 2012.
  1. Yes, did not think he had the guts

    24 vote(s)
    26.4%
  2. No, 4 yrs is a long track record to ignore

    17 vote(s)
    18.7%
  3. too early to tell

    45 vote(s)
    49.5%
  4. would have preferred a different play

    5 vote(s)
    5.5%
  1. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I think the real measure will be how much these WRs improve our offense in comparison to how Brandon Marshall improved the offense. In the case of the Marshall, the offense didn't improve much overall. Sure, he has more ability than a lot of receivers. But whatever ability he has is negated by his inability to be a team player. A lot of those games we lost in the 4th quarter last year could be attributed to the QB forcing the ball to Marshall, when the defense knew he'd do exactly that.
     
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  2. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    Look, as a player I personally liked chambers better than marshell but marshell is the more talented guy, hands down. If you're going to take touchdowns as the ultimate judge of talent then I guess guys like Plax are more talented too because he only caught 40 something balls last year but had 8 tds right? I mean if you really use stats as argument than marshell still had more yards than chambers on fewer catches and most likely on a lower rated offense than miami in 05 or 04.(cant remember which)

    Arguments like marshell sucks are reasons the rest of the football world thinks miami dolphins fans are stupid. If you're gonna hate marshell, hate him for off field bull**** and his play when i want attitude not his supposed lack of talent. Atleast then people would think you have principles instead of thinking you're a moron.
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No one has made the argument that Marshall sucks. I don't think anyone really thinks that Marshall sucks. The only argument I'm making is that a lot of people are over valuing his production here, which was merely average. They act like his leaving left a hole at the #1 WR. It didn't. If he was here we'd still have a hole at #1 because he didn't produce like a #1.

    If a guy with potential leaves, that does not create a hole.
     
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  4. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    yeah but other factors hurt our offense as well. Our oline starting from the wildcat year onward got progressivly worse every year. the WR talent as a whole got worse. Ronnie Brown, who played at an elite level when healthy, was often injured and phased out of the game plan before he got shipped off. inconsistent quarterback play coupled with horrible offensive coordinators etc

    the ball had to be "forced" to marshell because nobody else could get the job done and even then the ball was never really "forced" to marshell.

    I won't belive this group of WRs can be good until they actually start not being horrible. A team like San Fran last year had way more talent than this group does to go along with a dominate running game and defense. Look how that turned out for them in the playoffs. the giants were able to stack the box and focus on vernon davis. Now check the answer the 49ers had for this problem. They went out this offseason and tried to get more talent at WR. I'm not saying I wanted the dolphins to go out and focus only on wr, we have too many holes for that being that we're not one of the top 5 teams in the nfl like the 49ers are. The point is that WR is one of our major needs. If this group can't get it done next year it should be a primary target and dumping marshell this year for basically nothing makes us worse off than what we were when we had him.
     
  5. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    i think youre not putting enough value on what his presence on the field meant for us, stats aside. If we were only going to get two thirds for him and not replace him with anything close to his talent level, whether is be in one player or several, then I would rather have him than not have him.
     
  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    What value? Did it translate to an awesome offense? No. Did it translate to wins? No. There is no quantifiable value that Marshall provided the team. Every defense of him is "potential" based. The thought of Marshall in Miami was 10 fold better than the reality of Marshall in Miami.

    Every team focuses on the other team's # 1 WR. Whoopie do. I'd rather our team focus on developing WR talent instead of waiting for it to show up. We can win without Marshall, we've seen we didn't win with him.
     
  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    The presence of him on the field actually caused miami's offense to be worse. If you go by statistics like points scored, miami was better off keep Camarillo.
     
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  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    WE open the season vs man press and heavy blitzing, it will be fairly apparent that the NFL agrees with your assesment.

    For me, I'd like to see Cunningham in the slot, and Bess play more at wideout and see what happens.
     
  9. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The Seahawks offered him more money. That's why he felt more comfortable.
     
  10. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Totally agree. TE is as of right now a strong unit. Some posters have said trade or release Fasano because he cant catch. Why? Ive seen him catch a fair few highlight catches and he was underused 2 seasons ago.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Original Topic Question: No.

    I don't see how this moves the needle, he did what I expected him to do. To pass on both Tannehill and Weeden would have moved the needle even further downward than it already is, making him look plain obstinate about this QB thing to the point of deserving immediate dismissal.

    What could move the needle for me is how the rest of the class does. He drafted some players that could be decent. Not necessarily my choices, but some decent guys like Martin, Vernon, Egnew, Miller and Matthews. I wonder if he knows what he has in UDFA Jonas Gray, too. I won't be happy if he lets him walk to another team.
     
  12. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    It's Marshall with an "A." They probably have a low opinion of Dolphins fans because we apparently can't spell the names of our own players.



    Our offense didn't really improve with Marshall so I'll take a wait and see approach with our post-Marshall offense.
     
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  13. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It makes sense from a standpoint that at the time Clev was thought to maybe have interest in Tannehill so they didnt know if Tanne would be there. So when you look at it and you have 1 qb in Moore on your roster, you offer the deal we did so you provide competition and an option if you dont get Tannehill. Remember that offer doesnt preclud Tannehill, teh contract he got would have. Sure they felt good about getting Tanne but you leave no stone unturned.

    JT loves bell, because JT was mad he got cut means Bell was good in coverage? Nope
     
  14. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    so because marshall was on a team with horrible coaching, horrible quarterback play, no right side of an o line and miserable talent levels around him at wr and he still posted a 1200 yrd season hes ****ty because we were 20th in the league in scoring?

    lol so do you think dwayne wade with 4 high school level basketball players can do just as well against an NBA team as wade does now playing with two other all stars? I guess if wades stats dropped in that senario he'd be average right? you people make no sense what so ever.
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    FTR, Todd McShay rates the Dolphin draft as the 5th best. Not that McShay is an authority, just throwing that out there. Also Jason Cole of all people gave us a B+.
     
  16. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    no it doesn't change my opnion of him. I think a lot of the reaction to him originally was bull**** anyways.
     
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  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    You HAVE to give the Dolphins good marks for this Draft because they finally successfully came away looking like they had a plan that they were able to execute. Jeff Ireland gets to brag and imply that he had Ryan Tannehill as his target since December (which I doubt is true), that this was the plan all along, this is why they low-balled Matt Flynn, etc.

    Now, if I approach that with a little bit of cynicism, you'll have to forgive me, I just know how this stuff works. Nonetheless it's all very successful-looking from the outside, and that's more important than a lot of people would think.
     
  18. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I believe that he had Tannehill as a first round pick since last year. I think the target was Barkley until he opted to return to school. After that I believe the target was Tannehill except for during the Manning flirtation. During that flirtation, I don't think everybody was on board. I would guess that Ross was and Philbin wasn't, but I'm not sure where Ireland was.
     
  19. gamblerx

    gamblerx New Member

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    Still, if Barkley didn't return to USC. Redskins would of had him as well. We could of ended with Griffin.
     
  20. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I prefer Tannehill to Griffin. I'm really bothered by Griffin's lack of pocket awareness. Nobody blitzed him in college b/c of his speed, but the difference in the NFL won't be as stark. He'll be blitzed and he better sense it coming or he's going to get hit a lot. I also think Tannehill has an advantage in his experience reading defenses and going through progressions. I expect that Griffin should be able to figure it out eventually, but just being smart isn't enough to guarantee it. Those two areas make Griffin a lesser prospect for me despite Griffin's slightly better ability as a timing passer. Griffin was a better college QB, but I see Tannehill as the better pro prospect.
     
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  21. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is so ****ing stupid, Flynn isn't here cause Philbin didn't want him here, Tanny is here because they wanted to draft him.
    All these aholes in the press saying we failed to land Flynn are just idiots and yes I feel having Sherman here makes me feel good about Tanny with the 8th pick.
    Thanks for your funny story, Kiper's logic shouldn't scape the "Ireland low balled Flynn crowd".
     
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  22. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    give me griffin just because of his intelligence. I think he's going to make some noise solely based on his mind more then his physical attributes.
     
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  23. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He was more comfortable in Seattle because the Dolphins told him we are drafting Tanny so you are here to keep the seat warm.
     
  24. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Tannehill is no dummy.
     
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  25. gamblerx

    gamblerx New Member

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    meh
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bingo..If I may just try to add to this point, no one can deny the physical talent of a Brandon Marshall, imposing and strength being the two biggest, it's more about the affect that speed, precision, and hands can counterbalance that physical talent, and sometimes be more important then a physical presence on a field..I mean Iam sure most people would say that Marshall is more talented that Greg Jennings, but who can take a quick hitch and house it, who can take a quick slant and house it?.. Not Marshall.
     
  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, it's one of the rare times i find myself disagreeing with Rafs....I would of traded up for RG, and went with Weeden over Tannehill, so theres a big discrepancy in opinion on this one...I hope he's right Luck..
     
  28. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    They're both smart. Griffin wants to b an attorney and Tannehill wants to be an orthopedic surgeon. I'm not sure why you would assume one is mor intelligent than the other.
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It doesn't have to do with intelligence for me as to why I would of gone in a different direction..
     
  30. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't for me either. I think they both showed more than enough intelligence. My biggest concern with RG3 is with his pocket awareness. He wasn't blitzed often, but among the times he was, there were a few too many situations where he just got crushed by a big hit I thought he should have felt coming. In large part evaluation is about taking a small sample of NFL type plays and using them to project what he's capable of in the pros. I think he got blitzed something like 85 times all of last season. As an NFL rookie, he might see that many in the first 4 or 5 games. He has to have a better clock in his head or he won't make it. And that clock is something that some guys get and some don't. Some never develop it and some over-develop it and become skittish. I haven't seen any correlation between intelligence and getting that clock either. Actually in general I would say that RG3 had the fewest NFL type plays on film compared to the other top guys. That makes him a tough projection. So I see that as a real risk and that makes me grade him lower.
     
  31. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    I think Griffin graduated early with a real high GPA but honestly playing football is not rocket surgery. There's a certain level of intelligence that once you pass it in terms of football IQ, whats the difference if you have a high college GPA?
     
  32. hammer

    hammer New Member

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    All great moves IMO. Don't worry about Flynn, he'll be available in two years when Russell Wilson beats him out.
     
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  33. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. They are both more than smart enough so that intelligence is not the reason I'd choose one over the other.
     

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