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Coach Philbin and the new direction.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Mcduffie81, May 5, 2012.

  1. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Dont post much, but when something catches my eye I like to touch on it. After watching the rookies and their press conferences I notice that the rookies all seem to be very, very intelligent. The way that BJ Cunningham mentions working on DBs to turn their back so he can make the break. Then we have Rishard Marshall expressing his reverse play (that we've had brought to our attention by CK) and how he credits the blocks given. John Martin and how he mentions muscle training. Most of all coach Philbin. The guy exudes intelligence. I love the way he never is lost for words and can answer any question without giving the generic answer without saying anything. To me its night and day with reguards to our previous coaches. I see a teacher who has a clear vision. I look forward to him actually developing these players.

    Ive always wondered if so-called busts are merely that, or just subject to bad coaching or bad circumstances. I've always felt a player with all the right tools (even Henne) can succeed with the right coaching and reassurance. I feel 100% confident in what ive seen thus far from coach Philbin. He seems like a guy ready for this job.

    Please feel free to add or disagree. Otherwise this thread goes nowhere........
     
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  2. Daben

    Daben Well-Known Member

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  3. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    No matter how Philbin comes off right now, the reality is that he is going to be judged completely on how his team performs on the field. If the Dolphins succeed under the leadership of Philbin and are able to start making the playoffs again, Philbin will get much of the credit. Of course if the Dolphins continue to play mediocre football and they continue to miss the playoffs and finish below 500, Philbin will take the brunt of the
    blame.

    While I certainly hope Philbin is the quality HC many on here project him to be. The fact is that he has NEVER been a HC at any level of football. Therefore I will wait until he has actually coached games during the regular season before I will start judging his capabilities as an NFL head coach.
     
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  4. Yes but Sherman has been so I'm not worried,


    Sent from the depths of hell
    using Tapatalk.
     
  5. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Could not agree more. Philbin is who I wanted from the moment I found out he was in the running. I know its crazy, and I'm not saying we'll get the same results, but he reminds me of Bill Walsh in his demeanor and football intelligence.

    His success will depend on QB play. Any and all coaches in the NFL are good enough to win if they have solid to great QB play. The difference between coaches is the margin of QBs who could succeed in their system. For example, Peyton Manning will make any coach look good. Not every coach could win with Big Ben. I think with Philbin and his system, we have a chance for a lot more QBs to be good to great, then we've had in the past.
     
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  6. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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  7. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Sherman is the offensive coordinator, not the head coach. He is not the coach responsible for making the important decisions during the game which frequently are the difference between winning and losing. This is now the responsibility of Philbin. Besides, if Sherman was such a good head coach, why didn't the Dolphins or another team hire him for that position.

    The last I checked, Sherman was fired from the team which Tannehill quarterbacked last season. He may end up being a very good offensive coordinator, but it is Philbin who is responsible for the overall play of the team on the field and it is Philbin who will get the credit if the team wins, and blame if the team continues to lose.
     
  8. Laces Out

    Laces Out Well-Known Member

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    I believe the point of bringing up Sherman's HC experience is that Philbin will have a sounding board on his staff that has been there before.
     
  9. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I think that's an excellent point that many fans don't get. Most fans prefer to just conclude that a players sucks. I have always called those "bad circumstances" the "fit" between the system and the player. Some systems require more intelligence than others. Some reward players with specific types of skills. IMO Henne was placed in a situation where he had little chance of success. I never had him as a franchise guy, but I believe that he could have produced at a similar level to what Matt Ryan has if he had been in a better situation.

    As for Philbin, I believe he will succeed if he does a good job of fitting his players skills into situations where they are likely to succeed. Ireland is part of that b/c he has to find players that have the skill sets that Philbin needs and can work with.
     
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  10. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I remember when Parcells hired his old friend, Dan Henning to come in and be the offensive coordinator for Sparano. It was thought that Henning would be a sounding board for the first time NFL HC, Sparano. How did that work out?

    Philbin may end up being a fine NFL head coach. My point is that there was similar enthusiasm for the new HC when Jimmy Johnson was hired after Shula left the team. Many fans also were happy when Wannstedt was hired to replace JJ, and happier when he decided to stop coaching the Dolphins.

    When Nick Saban was hired, fans in Miami thought that the Dolphins had just hired the next Bill Belichick. The general view at the time of the Saban hiring was that the Dolphins would be in the Super Bowl in just a few years. Of course we all know how that turned out.

    When Cam Cameron was hired, this was also seen as a great hire at the time and fans were stating at the time that Cameron would finally bring back the offense which had been absent since Marino retired. After one season and a 1-15 record, Cameron was shown the door.

    Most Dolphin fans were ecstatic when Parcells was hired to run the organization and they thought that Ireland and Sparano, coming from the Cowboys, were both great hires by Parcells. After season one of this regime, it appeared the Dolphins were finally headed in the right direction. Unfortunately season one was the only success this regime experienced and Parcells quit after two and a half years and Sparano was fired in season four. Ireland is still here because Parcells and Sparano were blamed for the failures of the players. Ireland basically has been given one more year to prove it was not his inability to provide the talent to turn this organization around which has led to three unsuccessful seasons in a row.

    So while Philbin may turn out to be a much better HC than any of the previous five Dolphin head coaches. I refuse to buy into the hype until I see how this team plays on the field under his leadership. I may not be from Missouri, but Philbin and the Dolphins are going to have to , "show me", that this team is headed in the right direction and that this isn't just a new coach who once again has no idea how to turn this team into winners. Philbin just may turn out to be a very good or great coach in the NFL, or he may be the next Cam Cameron. Time will tell.
     
  11. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    john avery had marginal skill and yatil green had marginal knees. I hate Jimmy Johnson. Thanks for passing on Randy Moss too *******.
     
  12. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    maybe stupid fans thought that way. I'll admit I thought Johnson would have been better than he was. I expected to draft enourmous Olinemen and have nasty talent on D drafted in later rounds. We got the D but not so much the offense i expected. His ego prevented him from putting talent around marino. John Avery was an abject failure especailly when we had a shot at randy moss. Yatil Green never saw the field.

    All the other coaches....well I didn't expect anything from them. Wannstedt was my most hated. Ruined what johnson built by refusing to do anything with the offense then he trades our whole future for RB which worked out well in a vaccum but he ran the wheels off ricky. Wannstedt basically ruined the careers of mulitiple HoF players on our D and prevented a HoF talent in williams from ever being considered for the honor.

    cameron i knew nothing about other that he was consider an offensive guru. Obviously not. Look at the ravens lol poor flacco


    Saben I didn't really know much about because I don't watch college football to a huge degree but I'm always skeptical of Str8 up college coach hires. He might have been good had he stuck it out.

    Pacrcells I saw as a dinosaur. A dude who won back in the day but refused to change his style to fit the times. I was already skeptical of trash from dallas after johnson. anyone connected to dallas I had no faith in. Belive it or not, ireland is the only one I don't hate and the only reason for that is it looks as if ireland is moving with the times plus my maybe homeristic faith in tannehill. Some things from ireland made me scratch my head but then again some of that was parcells doing.
     
  13. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Dont get me wrong here. Im not "buying into any hype". Im stating what ive seen so far and pointing out how smart the guy comes across. Its fairly obvious to all of us that he hasnt coached a game yet and needs to prove hes a good coach. Dont poop on the parade just yet.
     
  14. Laces Out

    Laces Out Well-Known Member

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    Apples and oranges. Henning was a successful coordinator who couldn't handle the HC spot. It happens a lot. Sherman may be cut from that same cloth, but he at least has something to show for his time as a HC, 3 NFC North titles and a shared Big XII South title.

    And there's nothing wrong with having enthusiasm with a new coaching regime. The problem is people don't temper that enthusiasm, which leads to unrealistic expectations and a seemingly endless revolving door of HCs and a downward spiral.

    HCs you listed records in Miami

    Johnson regular season. Playoffs

    36-28. 2-3

    Wannstedt

    43-39 1-2





    See the last point.

    Saban

    15-17

    People thought Cam Cameron was a great hire? When I heard that one I thought people had lost their minds. Hiring a guy that had an 18-37 HC record in college just screams "let's fling poo at the wall and see what sticks" or "our last hires have been defensive minded, but our D is okay, so let's go offensive minded this time" and it was a total failure.

    And rightfully so, as Bill Parcells record pre Miami speaks for itself. The man turns around football teams. Every place except Miami he has left in better shape than he got it in. Who would have called the shot that Parcells would have up and quit? And how much of the success can be attributed to the Cameron season where the team got pounded and got a last place schedule?

    I totally understand this stance. I am excited, but I am also a realist. I see no better than a .500 season in the future. Anything better than that, and I will be ecstatic, and looking forward to year two with Tannehill running the show if he didn't this year.
     
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  15. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I totally agree, other than wanting to point out it's Rishard Matthews, not Marshall. Richard Marshall is our new free agent corner.
     
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  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I was enthusiastic with Jimmy was hired. Same when Saban and Parcells Inc were hired. I wasn't so much with Wanny, but the team was basically in the playoff hunt every year at the time and it seemed logical to make the the more seamless transition to Jimmy's right hand man. I never liked the Cameron hire.
    However, their successes or lack thereof, doesn't have anything to do with Philbin. If one likes what they see in Philbin, why not be optimistic? If you want to dwell in a continual state of negativity until you see actual results, then that's up to you I guess.
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Of course that's what he wants. I just want to know why we need to be reminded of it in every thread. Does he think we forgot his stance?
     
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  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I guess it's a promise he made to his brother DolfanJake. ;)
     
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  19. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Not so much Mr C, for me I've read and heard enough of these sorts of things that they do not move my meter so to speak.

    Overall I'm more happy with the young talent acquisition moves then anything Philbin may have to say.

    For example, I like the Garrard pick up, like the Miller draft pick and Egnew.
     
  20. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That's cool man. I just don't like anyone trying to tell others they shouldn't be optimistic about Philbin and the new staff because of what the last 5 coaches did or did not do.
    Some see the glass half full, and some see it as half empty.
     
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  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    To me, objectively, if we can solve the OL and Wr issues, and looking at our schedule, we are set up for success this yr.

    ALMOST to the point where it doesn't matter who is playing Qb, if MMoore or Garrard or even Tannehill start, we still should have a good season imo.
     
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  22. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    I think you need to give him until atleast the middle of the season to see the direction of the team. I knew people who hated the hire right from the jump saying, "he doesn't even call the plays in green bay". So far I like the first two rounds of the draft. I liked not springing for every free agent by tossing tons of money at them.

    so far I question the later rounds of the draft. a project OLB/de in the third to go along with another project RB that may have yielded great value but wasn't a pressing need like at WR. waiting till the 7th round to grab wrs when we have nobody on our roster while dumping our only WR talent for two thirds after spending two seconds to get him.

    we'll see what happens I guess but so far I remain positive about the new staff and have even started to not hate ireland as much. I'll judge sherman after three solid games to see him play calling. I like what they did at A & M but minus some of the bubble screen/read option and sub it with some dare I say it Wannstedt power running/play action.
     
  23. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    They made an effort to do that in the draft but people like you piss and moan every time a Tackle or guard is drafted. WR we are on the same page. I think there was talent in the third round that would have contributed more than either miller or vernon. I really expected atleast 3 wrs, one second rounder or third and then the two we got in the 7th.
     
  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Indeed, tell me how good the giants OL was this yr?
     
  25. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    Better than ours. If you want to pray for a miracle playoff run for an 8-8 team then go right ahead.

    Look what a stellar Oline coupled with an amazing defense did for the 49ers? Alex Smith almost didn't look like a bust. Had crabtree not been such a disappointment or if they didn't fumble two punt returns your point would make even less sense.

    No respectable football mind, expert or not, says Offensive and defensive line don't matter. If your view is we should bargin shop for OL then answer me this, how bad was columbo last year?
     
  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Colombo was terrible, HOWEVER, your turn, why was he still playing, why wasn't he benched?

    And wouldn't the 49ers run qualify as a "miracle'?

    And rumor has it that you can find quality offensive linemen outside of the top 40 picks in the draft, the #1 overall, highest a Tackle has ever been drafted, Center at #15 overall, once again the highest a Center has ever been drafted, noticing a theme here?
     
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  27. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    JJ didn't pass on Moss. He traded down before the draft even started.
     
  28. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    Many LTs have been drafted number one overall....obviously thats the highest you could say that about any position. you can also make a case for any position having talent outside the top 40, it's just more rare. Pouncey is our second best player on the o-line behind long. A mis-managed postion I agree but def not a bad pick if you look at it in a vaccum. How great was matt ryan in the playoffs last year with talent all around him? ZERO points? Thought so.

    The 49ers weren't a miracle run...They dominated all year. Didn't they finish 13-3? their only glaring hole was at WR at to a degree quarterback but they've spent first round picks on both spots and had our first rounder. (ginn lol who with your logic is a better pick than long) With their Defense a top 3 in the NFL and every position set on offense other than WR that's when you go after WR talent and 49ers did. When your team is garbage, you build from the ball out which is what we've done to an extent. Columbo still played because we had a horrible coach and missed on serveral other linemen in the area you want us to take our linemen from.

    The trade happened in the middle of the draft, pretty sure. Had he not traded down either way he woulda had a shot at moss.
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Only 3, Yary, Pace, Long.

    Falcons record is what with Matt Ryan at Qb?


    They where what, 6-10 the yr before?

    I look at green bay, iirc Bulaga is their only #1 pick OL, and he went off the board at #24 or so. Gmen drafted William Beatty at the tail end of rd #1, otherwise no #1 pick OL (or if so, that either was a FA signing or happened over 8 yrs ago) When the patriots were winning SB's..no #1 pick OL's, Saints are the same way.

    JJ? I suspect JJ just did not like Moss, but I did think he understood how to win in Miami without a great Qb.

    Speed and lots of it.
     
  30. dsteve

    dsteve Banned

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    who cares if they were 6-10 the year before? they dominated all season, that doesnt make them a miracle run int he playoffs like it does the giants, a team that barely made it in to begin with.

    http://www.nfltouchdown.com/nfl-top-10-left-tackles/ a pretty random list of the top ten LTs in the league. only one drafted outside the second round and that being a guy for the ravens I'm not even sure is playing right now.


    And you think Ryan would have the same decent record playing in the AFC east with no talent?
     
  31. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Agree on both points. I wanted Philbin as a prime candidate even before he was in the running - I thought he'd be a good candidate to develop the QB position and run the offense.

    And, he also reminds me of Bill Walsh when he talks. One thing that he does need to have - which Walsh was highly underrated - is toughness. Walsh was known by his players as not just a smart guy instituting the WCO but a guy who was extremely demanding (perfection) and who also expected his players on defense to hit hard, be physical and intimidate. That's not often talked about. Of course, it helped to have Ronnie Lott and Carlton Williamson in the D-backfield.
     
  32. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Philbin was my top choice as well back when people were talking about Fisher, Cowher, Gruden, etc.

    And yes, it's always about the QB if you're talking about any kind of long term success. I don't mean the "we had a good season" level of success. You can find that with a decent defense and running game, but you still have almost no shot to win it all. If you want to have a shot at real success then it starts with the QB.
     
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  33. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Because he was never supposed to be the starter in the first place. He was the veteran fail safe (ala Hicks this year) that started by default once Murtha went down (Not a real big fan of Murtha either). And our depth beyond that was pretty bad to. Garner didn't play all that well compared to in the past and Jerry was a fluke that he at least didn't play miserably.

    Hell I'm surprised that there was only ONE OL pick considering were moving to a more athletic zone blocking scheme. Luckily the pick of Pouncey the year before helps there. If anything Miami's going cheap to sort out a lot of changes to the OL. They are going to let a couple journeyman backups and a 33 year old compete at RG and they brought in several undrafted OL to try and change out the depth spots.

    Hell the Steelers just spent a 1st and 2nd rounder on OL and still came back in the 7th with another OL pick and most around here would say they have a great drafting FO.
    Arizona dropped a 4th/5th/7th on the OL
    Atlanta dropped a 2nd/3rd on the OL
    Baltimore dropped a 2nd/4th
    Buffalo dropped a 2nd/5th/6th
    Carolina dropped a 2nd
    Chicago spent nothing (scary considering their OL ;p However did sign Chilo Rachal as a free agent)
    Bengals dropped a 1st
    Cleveland dropped a 2nd/5th
    Dallas (none but just dropped $30 million on 2 free agent guards)

    It goes on but the gist of it is that most teams invest heavily on the OL. Miami has spent a 1st/2nd/3rd and 6th in the last 3 drafts. Jerry may yet come through (although I'm of the opinion he won't..others are).

    Granted drafting Jake Long first overall in 2008 while having 2 later busts in that draft + huge free agent signings didn't help....but then we also had an OL that Vernon Carey was the only talent on that line before then ;p
     
  34. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That's not true. In their first draft ever, the Bengals took a Center 2nd overall. Bob Johnson was his name.
    You would have loved the '68 draft. OTs went 1st and 4th overall, besides the Center, Johnson going 2nd.
     
  35. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He also said had he not traded down, he'd have used the original pick on Vonnie Holliday.
     
  36. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    I really don't think there were many people excited or happy with the Wannstedt hire. Not after the mess he left in Chicago, a lot of Chicago fans hated Wannstedt and warned us about what would happen in Miami. There was quite a few people who were upset with Johnson about how he maneuvered Wannstedt into Miami and the head coaches job when he knew he was leaving.
     
  37. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    1968..interesting, Stephenson was a #2 pick...Langer a street FA..

    And yet, 44 yrs ago...

    As for VDP's post...uhm...how's their skill position guys looking?

    Did they take OL prior to having them locked down? iirc..Ray Rice was a second rd pick, they traded up for Flacco..and I'm not seeing any SB banners in Ravens' land since..well..for awhile..Didn't they use first rd picks on Grubbs and Oher?

    Perhaps JJ was not so duimmy after all./
     
  38. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    44 yrs ago yes, but you did say Pouncey at 15 was the highest ever. You may have overlooked Steve Everitt too. 14th overall in 1993.
     
  39. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  40. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

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    Cecil the diesel. At least we got him in the fifth round
     

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