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Under Pressure: Jake Long must prove he fits in

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by xphinfanx, May 22, 2012.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm coming from a position that he is healthy, if the surgeries were successful, and Jake takes his strength training to a science, which he does, then I feel pretty comfortable projecting the 27 year old, and if the Gm, negotiating a contract from that position.

    The first four years, besides Dwight Stevenson, Jake is the best lineman I've seen on a Dolphin roster, he's absolutely dominating when healthy, and brings so much to the franchise in terms of character and leadership. The points your making Rafs are making me think whether or not Jakes skillset is still considered the prototype and rather or not his movement skills match up?, I believe they are so I would invest..

    Here's my concern, does Jake want to be a Miami Dolphin.
     
  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I dunno, I tend to think people coming into a thread where the first 3 posts (including the OP) calling this topic more or less silly means the people having serious discussions about it are tilting at windmills and are in the wrong thread. The amount of words someone uses has no correlation to their intelligence, its what they say that is important. Giving credence to a made up story about pressure is not important especially in light of the travesties of reporting we've suffered through this offseason. The story was made up when we drafted Martin (and promptly debunked). Now its been made up again. The next time the story comes out, we're going to hear, "Where there's smoke there's fire." and it will be a further distraction to the team.

    If you want to have discussion about the importance of LTs or a thought exercise on the importance of Long vs The Cap, by all means do it, but coming into a thread that was more or less labeled as nonsense by the OP and then ***** when people maintain that stance, is silly.
     
  3. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I haven't heard anything about him not wanting to be a Dolphin. As for the back injury, I don't know. The people I've known with back surgeries seem to have about a 50/50 success rate. Long is younger and probably has elite treatment and genetics, but is also in a profession that will likely put considerable strain on his back. My concern is more that he seems healthy now and then in two years has another back impact that really impacts him. I have no idea if he's more likely or equally likely to suffer that. Generally (and I'm just speaking anecdotally here, not claiming any medical knowledge on this), the people I've seen with back problems tend to have more back problems.
     
  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The original article brought up some interesting points as to why people should actually consider whether Jake Long should be re-signed or not. Many people have taken part in that discussion. And then we have the smartest guys in the room coming in and saying "only in Miami would this even be a discussion" and whatnot. We are essentially having the discussion you are suggesting, excepting you're siding with those who say it's ridiculous to have that discussion. You're contradicting yourself.
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So in your opinion does his specific athleticism translate to this offense in elite fashion?
     
  6. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If anything, I think it's more likely he'll be a better player than a worse player. He's not going to be put any more on an island in terms of pass protection, and I think there's a good chance that he'll be more of a force as a run blocker, or at very least be put in a position where his strength as a run blocker will be better leveraged.
     
    MrClean likes this.
  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The original article sets the tone that Jake Long is on the hot seat. He isn't. Your problem is you come into a thread that was scoffing at that specific notion and then got annoyed that people were still discussing things based on that premise when you were basically doing a thought exercise. That's the part that is silly to me...you getting upset enough that you start throwing little jabs simply because people were still on the original tone of thread even though you moved on from that.
     
  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jake on an island is when he is at his best imo, do you think this scheme will limit that strength?, I mean in this quick release offense, he should be able to dominate in pass rushing, especially considering what he has been accustomed to.
     
  9. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think the article is fair. He gives Jake Long his due, but then adds factors that should be considered.

    He's not arguing Jake Long should be in the hotseat. He's asking if those factors make it so. And they're all valid arguments.

    It boils down to money. Ireland has said Jake Long can make the switch to the new scheme. But is he worth $11-13 million is the question ...
     
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  10. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    I see Jake as a needed anchor on the blind side.
    Sometimes I hate when people point out facts I don't want to see.
     
  11. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not going to change. Pass protection will likely be more mixed than run blocking which seems to be pretty strictly zone, but I don't think it really matters if you're zone or man. If you've got a LT who can constantly play in that kind of position you do it.
     
  12. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They aren't all valid arguments. The fundamental thrust of the article is that Long isn't a scheme fit, and it's dead wrong.

    Long's injury issues vs. asking price is the substantial issue. If he's completely healthy there should be little question about him being the highest paid OL in the league, and the Dolphins should be willing to pay him that. The Dolphins might try to winnow him down based on the injuries, but Long has a pretty good case that his injuries have not been all that significant- Most all of his nagging injuries he's still been very effective through- Basically it's the Bears game in 2010, and the first and last couple games of 2011. If there are no signs of chronic injury, what's really the case for trying to pay him less?
     
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  13. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What article are you reading?

    Long can fit in any system. The writer only mentions it a billion times. Quotes Ireland, an NFL GM, at least twice.

    You guys are misreading the author because you feel slighted he questioned Jake Long.

    He isn't questioning whether Jake Long is a good scheme fit. He's questioning whether the salary that's going to be paid to Jake Long, fits the scheme. It's subtle, but real distinction. He doesn't fit the Philbin mode. He'll still be really good, but is that worth over $10m? That's the question he's asking.

    It's like if you put Larry Fitzgerald into Wanny's old run run run pass system. Larry would fit. He'd probably excel. He'll still be a #1 elite football player. But would he be worth $16 million in a scheme that emphasizes run run run? That's what the author is asking, and it's a valid question. Could those resources be better allocated to another position. Jake long is #1a or #1b in the league. Nobody questions that. But what if the system would work 95% as well with 50% of the salary?

    You can disagree with him all you want, but you can't argue those aren't valid questions. Those questions are very valid. You can disagree with the answer, but to not even entertain the question is putting on some serious Homer glasses.
     
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  14. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    yes, I think Long & every other player on the roster is under the microscope
    & will be required to compete & win their place on the team
    this year is going to be about competition amongst players & coaching

    competition is the elixir of success

    & this is the way it is supposed to be:dolphin:
     
  15. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    When our QB (possibly Tannehill our "franchise" QB) gets nailed from the blindside then the doom merchants will come out. Protect our QB 1st. We do that and it gives Tannehill or whoever a chance to let himshow his stuff. You can throw Rodgers, Brady in and without protection hes hung out to dry. Got to protect the QB! They arnt called the workhorses for nothing. Long is a must IMO. How long have we seen duff Guards and RT's letting us down. We are on the brink on having a very good O-Line. Losing Marshall has presented a shed load of question marks at WR. Losing Long will give us a big step backwards. Cement our O-Line and build around it.
     
  16. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The difference between scheme and tendencies is there, yes, but it's not a particularly important distinction when he's got that just as confused. There's nothing in either that suggests an elite left tackle's abilities or impact are diminished.

    It's quite possible that the Dolphins offense is run-heavy, and uses a lot of bootlegs and the like playing off of that, in a fashion that is less dependent on Jake Long. That's the tendencies, not the scheme. That's not inherently what Sherman and/or Philbin do. If that's how the offense looks, it's likely a short-term adjustment rather than the plan.

    What Sherman/Philbin would probably LIKE to do, and we've seen them do quite a bit of is run more pass-oriented offenses- heavy use of shotgun, spread sets, and protection packages with less blockers. That's when a guy like Jake Long is a phenomenal asset. He lets you put additional eligible receivers into routes, and gives you time to get further in progressions and more aggressive down the field.

    Letting Jake Long walk because of the need to adjust the offense to having rookie/journeymen quarterbacks right now is short sighted and self-defeating.


    That's tendencies. And self-scouting and assessment of what you should do with your talent is a big part of that.

    Dave Wannstedt's offense wasn't inherently as stone aged in theory as execution. He had quality offensive minds in Chan Gailey and Norv Turner for most of his tenure. He's certainly responsible for gross mismanagement in talent acquisition, but the tone and tendencies of the team was wholly appropriate for the talent on the roster. Regardless- If the Dolphins had Larry Fitzgerald, they would almost certainly use him to the degree they possibly could, and if they properly recognized his talent they would not let him walk even if their theoretical current ability to use him to the best of his ability was sub-optimal.
     
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  17. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I hope people do not misunderstand my .02, Big Jake should be retained, it may be better to tag him in 2013, and then offer a long term deal in 2014 when the salary cap number goes up, for a two yr period it is more or less frozen, and in offseason 2013 we have several somewhat key pieces up for deals.
     
  18. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    Well said.
     
  19. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    I don't mean to offend, but this thread is being taken way too seriously for what amounts to the equivalent of a "move Zach Thomas to safety thread" :tongue2:

    ...but it's the offseason. Should be used to it by now.

    Hey when he's in the hall of fame we can look back and laugh at how folks even remotely considered letting him go ;p
     
  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ireland will do whatever it takes to keep Jake Long, as well he should, he is the best at his position, and he's in his prime, you find ways to win and scheme using this mans talents, run behind him more, let'em lead screens, let'em play some fullback in goaline situations,which he did in high school very well.
     
  21. Phyl

    Phyl New Member

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    Jake is undoubtedly an A+ player, however, I wouldn't be against us letting him go for a league average LT if it meant that money went towards bringing in an elite playmaking WR or something.
     
  22. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I don't believe that. More like he'd have an even number on each foot, so 12 seems more likely if he has any more than the usual 5+5. Toes are overrated anyway, according to Tim Bowens. ;)
     
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  23. hammer

    hammer New Member

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    I can see that. The Dolphins should be flush with cash next year even if they do sign Long. You have to think long term though. Long will make about 8 times as much as Jonathon Martin. The rookie cap has changed everything. Unless Long has an injury free dominant season I'd say he's gone.
     
  24. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    long-incognito/garner-pouncey-jerry/incognito-murtha/martin

    Jake Long is going nowhere, he anchors the line, protects the blind side & we need his experience & substantial talent in reconstructing an offensive line capable of handling a newly imposed system. a healthy & productive Jake Long will be a Miami Dolphin for a long time to come... never a good policy to play games or suddenly get cheap with a pro-bowl caliber LT or Center. somethings simply cost more than others... it all begins on the offensive line: win the trench, win the game.
     
  25. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jeff Ireland has said he plans to keep Jake Long here for a very long time.

    If Jake has another injury riddled season and then demands top dollar, is he still a keep?

    Has Ireland approached JL on a contract extension yet?
     
  26. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Depends on the injuries. The reality of football is everyone is an injury away from being cut. That's why guaranteed money matters so much.
     
  27. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    As if making the Pro bowl every year he has been in the NFL wasn't proof enough.:pity:
     
  28. Tin Indian

    Tin Indian Rockin' The Bottom End Club Member

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    I am not going to waste my time reading that article. Jake is not going anywhere. He is arguably the best tackle in football and we would be foolish to let him go. As far as his injuries let's see, He hurt his knee 2 years ago in pre season when Sparano was trying to make a point and played on it most of the year and because of that he managed to ding up his shoulder compensating for it. He had no exposure to team trainers last off season to help properly rehab that stuff and comes in still dinged up and as a result hurts his arm at the end of the year. So this off season he will get the proper attention he needs and he will come back as strong as ever.






    I hope.
     

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