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The Official 2012 Boston Red Sox Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Ray Finkle, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    The Red Sox should probably get everyone off the Green Monster when Stanton is batting.
     
  2. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    you think?
     
  3. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    No, why would it? I can understand if he was going from 1st base to a pitcher or catcher but moving to the OF, especially right or left shouldn't make any difference to him hitting extra base hits.

    He's either hurt (which is possible), hasn't gotten into a groove yet at the plate (most likely), just having a down year (again possible) or just lost his power stroke (which scares me).
     
  4. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    maybe it is the injury from last season creeping back, which would be weird because of the monster season he had last year...pitchers could be adjusting to him as well, but he is too polished of a hitter to keep these numbers...
     
  5. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    He had almost zero power after the ASG so if it was related to his shoulder surgery he got during the 2010 off season you'd think it would have affected him more at the start of the year. My guess is he's just pressing at the plate and really hasn't been locked in yet. He's too good of a hitter to simply lose it over night, it might just be a down year for him.
     
  6. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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  7. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Gotta say, Boston brass is hurting this dude, far worse then the back and forth the Yanks brass toyed with Joba....this news is not good news for Beantowners with Alfredo A-"Blown"-ceves still the closer option.
     
  8. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    How so? Bard's back in the bullpen now. They tried him at starting, it didn't work and now he's back in the pen. He had a bad night last night, it happens. He pitched fine in the pen the 3 appearances before that, he had a 8 to 2 K/BB rate in 5 innings before last night.

    The Yankees ruined any shot Joba had at starting, they shifted him back and forth 600 times and when he did start they barely let him break 70 pitches or go past the 4th or 5th inning. No one handled a situation worse than the Yankees did with Joba. The sad thing is Joba probably could have been a SPer, he was fine in the minors as one, Bard never showed he could have been a successful SP. I don't blame the Sox for trying Bard out as one due to the depth of the rotation at the start of the season, he failed and now he's back in the pen.

    As far as Aceves, he's been ok as the closer. He's been a fair stop gap thus far and Bailey should be ready to go in 2 weeks or so, he's already throwing off the mound. The Sox bullpen has actually been very good overall since that Saturday game vs. the Yankees at Fenway.
     
  9. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    And the Sox have won 7 out of their last 8 games. Clearly all those reports are effecting their on field performance. It's all just noise.
     
  10. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Ahhhh those NL kiddies.....

    imagine if they played in the AL full time....
     
  11. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    The Cubs are a bad baseball team while Marlins are just playing bad baseball right now. But yes overall I do think the AL has better teams this year.
     
  12. dolphinkev

    dolphinkev Active Member

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    What OF's leave after crawford and ellsbury return, I hope they keep kadish and nava and let podsednick and mcdonald go.
     
  13. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    A little premature to speculate since another OFer can get hurt between now and then and it will throw everything off but if everyone is back to being healthy the starting OF will be Crawford in LF, Ellsbury in CF and Kalish in RF with Cody Ross and Ryan Sweeney/Daniel Nava as the back ups. I can't see how or why they would want to keep Scott Podsednick around. McDonald might only survive because he's a RHH so depending on how well/poor Nava or Kalish are playing the Sox can always send one of them back down to the minors.

    Getting everyone healthy is the first step and assuming that happens the Sox will be looking to trade some of their OF spare parts.
     
  14. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    Marlins have a winning record in interleague play since 2003. We do just fine against the big bad scary AL.
     
  15. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    yay....however at 4-11 this year you guys do seem scared yes....

    Come on, whats a little inter-division ribbing?!?!
     
  16. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    We're terrible.

    And there's nothing wrong. I'm just giving you **** back. =p
     
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  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not scared. We just suck..
     
  18. GreenMonster

    GreenMonster New Member

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    Solid weekend against the Braves, I got to watch all 3 games which was nice.
     
  19. GreenMonster

    GreenMonster New Member

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    I would think that Ross would get the call over Kalish most nights, he is just a better hitter right now, even without today's 2 HR's.
     
  20. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Ross is deadly against LHP, but no so much against RHP career wise. I think Ross should be platooning not playing everyday. If Kalish isn't going to play everyday then send him back down to the minors (which I think is going to happen when Ellsbury is back), it would make no sense to have him sitting on the bench especially since he missed all of last season with injuries.
     
  21. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Aww poor Youk. Sad to see him go, especially for nothing in return, but it was probably time. People are going to forget (and have already) just how good he was in 2007 to 2010ish before the injuries starting to pile up. It would be interesting to see how Youkilis career would have played out if they didn't move him back to 3B, perhaps he would have stayed healthier at 1st, or maybe he would have gotten hurt anyway. Either way I'll remember him for being on both the 2004 and 2007 WS Championship teams, the way he never gave up an at bat and that he always hustled and gave it his all, unfortunately baseball is a business and the team is better off with him gone, both on and off the field.
     
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  22. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    They made the right decision, it would have turned ugly (it already was) if Youk platooned with Middlebrooks the rest of the year.....kudos to Cherington for seeing that in advance and nipping it in the bud....

    This goes a long way for Elisbury staying with the Sox as well IMO, they had a rocky relationship those 2....

    hey you never know he may come back to haunt them....
     
  23. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    It was obvious Valentine didn't like Youkilis and there was a zero % chance the Sox were going to pick up Youkilis' 13.5M option after the season. The return was extremely light as I don't think much of Zach Stewart and Brent Lillibridge is basically another Nick Punto (but better I think anyway) so if hopefully the Sox can find a way to dump Punto now (although I'd doubt it since he's signed for next year too). But the whole purpose of the deal was to get Youkilis out of town and clear up a spot for Middlebrooks. Youkilis didn't really mix well with the current group of Sox and I'm willing to bet he was one of the "problems" in the clubhouse last year. I do wonder if Youkilis had any trade value in the winter, granted hindsight is 20/20 and I don't think even the Sox knew Middlebrooks would have hit the way he has so far (he did need those Triple A at bats at the beginning of the year).

    As far as Ellsbury staying now that Youkilis is gone, I don't think it matters one bit. Like always it's about the money. If the Sox offer Ellsbury the most money whether Youkilis is there or not then he'll be a Red Sox. I think Ellsbury is as good as gone around next year too. Jackie Bradley, Jr. (2011 draft pick) is going to be his replacement, he's been dominating the minors this year and is probably a year away or so. I don't think you'll see the Sox shell out 15 to 20M for Ellsbury.
     
  24. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    really? you think he gave up? or was he a vocal one dogging out the player who werent playing 100%.....
     
  25. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    No I don't think he ever gave up on the field, I just think he wore out his welcome in the clubhouse. He blasted Ellsbury in the media for leaving the team while he was hurt in 2010 but the front office told Ellsbury to rehab in Arizona instead of with the team. He also had that random dust up with Manny in 2008 in the dugout. I just think Youk is a different personality, I definitely think he cares but I think when things are going well he can be difficult to deal with. A lot of players didn't like how he used to throw things all the time after he made an out or a bad play, which is interesting because fans want to see players be emotional and show "that they care" which is one of the reasons why people in Boston loved Youkilis and hated JD Drew.

    I also heard from people who have close ties to the team as far back as 2008 that Youkilis wasn't very well liked in the clubhouse. A quote to me (obviously paraphasing) in the winter of 2008/09 was "People think Youkilis runs the team and is the guy but it's all Pedroia. The everyone from the players, coaches, front office guys love Pedroia to death, they don't like Youkilis. His act gets old fast". My guess was he was a distraction last year and at the start of this year. Of course if Youkilis produced like he did from 2007 to 2010, the Sox might have put up with it however his performance fell off the FO figured they couldn't keep him if he was going to be a bench player from here on. Again when you're winning and putting up big numbers things can get overlooked.
     
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  26. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    And that's just it for the educated fan....showing emotion or caring is way different than watching a player consistantly rant and throw things every single time....basically, fans know a great hitter will make outs 7 out of 10 at bats.....educated fans grow tired of watching any player throw things and rant each of those 7 times as if we arent smart enough to know the deal.

    Its not just the actions fans want to see to show they care, cause those reactions will get tiring as you say, especially with Youk (who only had one way of showing it) in a big way by many around baseball.

    I think your team improved my shipping him off.
     
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  27. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Unfortunately the educated fan is the minority.
     
  28. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Bobby Valentine was asked if Adrian Gonzalez will play RF anymore this season, his response was "Yes, in the World Series".

    Got to love comments like that, makes me dislike him about 2% less today, maybe 3%.
     
  29. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    what do u expect him to say....?
     
  30. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    With Bobby V, who knows what he'd say. I enjoyed his comment that's all, thought it was a good one from him.
     
  31. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    The Red Sox are trading A. Gonzalez?????

    :chuckle:
     
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  32. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yes to the Cubs for Anthony Rizzo and a Kerry Wood autograph jersey.
     
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  33. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    :lol:...
     
  34. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Heyman hahahahah
     
  35. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I actually don't blame Byrd for taking them. Those are the kind of baseball players that should try anything to try and stay in the game. It was obvious he was close to being done, so why the heck not? Although again they didn't help him at all, so it brings up the old question of how much do PEDs really help performance, if at all.
     
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  36. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    So what Sosa, and Bonds did was au natural? I think it helps, depending on the ability of the player....for a guy like Byrd to recover quicker, what is he recovering quickly too? Mediocrity.....but Bonds, A-Rod, Sosa guys with talent....I believe it does help guys like that...

    ^^^^^Impressive.....
     
  37. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    How much does it help those guys though? That's the major question in which no one can honestly answer with clear evidence.

    Bonds and Arod were HOFers on talent alone. The years before Arod (according to him) started taking PEDs and the time after he stopped taking PEDs he still put up big numbers. Bonds are a HOFer before he started taking them. I'm sure with how PEDs help the body recover quickier helped them stay on the field and maybe gave them a few extra hits/HRs overall but PEDs aren't going to turn a Jeremy Giambi or Byrd into a HOFer.
     
  38. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    right but I dont think those guys are doing PED's to get into the Hall, they are looking to cash in on a big year....

    I mean look at the numbers of when they did it to now? Nobody has come close to anything remote close to what they did in the mid-late 90's....you have to say it helped them...what about Brady Anderson? I would think it helped him....

    Of course proving it is the hard part, but numbers dont lie...
     
  39. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    My point is those players were great anyway even with the added "aid" of PEDs. You can't compare when they did it to now though because right now Arod is on the decline and has been slowed down because of injuries. But Arod at least had big years after PED testing was in place. And even his average or down years for him are still pretty damn good. Arod's best year was probably in 2007 when he was with the Yankees when testing was in place. I don't think PEDs helped Arod or Bonds enough to make a big arguement about it.

    Brady Anderson had 1 big year in his career in 1996 where he hit 50 home runs, everyone assumes he took PEDs because of that big increase in HRs (his previous high was 21 and he hit 24 3 years later but never had another 20 HR season, so he had 3 seasons in 15 years where he hit 20+ HRs) but how come he only hit 18 in the next year, or 18 again the following year? What happened in those years? Did he magically stop taking PEDs (again assuming he did in the first place)? If he did, why? If he didn't, why didn't he hit 50 or even 25 the next year? Was he taking the same type or different? Couldn't he just had one huge great year where everything was just going right and never came close to matching it?

    When you get a chance take a look at this page:
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/marisro01.shtml

    That's another player who had 1 big year, or a year in which his HR totals doubled from his career averages. Should we assume he was taking PEDs too? How come this doesn't get brought up ever? Again I'm not saying he did PEDs but if you look back in history you'll see tons of examples of guys having 1 huge year and never being able to match it.
     
  40. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    My opinion isn't a popular one but I'd put them all in the HOF. There's so much that everyone doesn't know between how much steroids helped, and who did or didn't take them, etc. Anyone that has HOF numbers I'd put in with some kind of asterisk to denote that they played in the steroid era.

    The thought of a Hall of Fame without Clemens, Bonds, etc, makes me sad.
     
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