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2012 MLB Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Fin-Omenal, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Why should they have to manage their pool of funds at all?


    If this kid wants to go back to college (same with O's 4th rounder) so be it...they have that right. MLB is providing proper instructions on the POOL of funds, and letting each team do their own thing with the total pool. If Pitt really wants this kid and wants to forfeit a pick, go for it.[/QUOTE]

    Of course they have the right to go back to college but Pittsburgh shouldn't have to be forced to give up a draft pick because they go over the pool of funds. The draft is suppose to HELP these bad teams, not hurt or limit them. Again Pittsburgh has been one of the most aggressive spenders in the draft in the past few years, they're trying to build from within. Now they're being limited. It's not going to help their franchise with this limits.


    Again, Pittsburgh has been extremely aggressive in the draft. They've been going to the high priced/high upside kids. They got Josh Bell to sign last year when everyone in the world said he was unsignable because they gave him a bonus that blew him out of the water. That wouldn't be the case with the new CBA.

    If I'm a small market or bad team, I'm throwing my money at the draft instead of signing the Jason Marquis or Nick Puntos of the world that might make my team a game or two better over the course of the season.

    Pittsburgh doesn't want to lose next year's pick, that's the main and probably only hold up. They have shown in past years they have no problem giving players big money deals to sign. Losing the pick is a big deal to a bad team/small market team. It's a huge deal.



    Yes it is a black eye. How could it not be? Bad teams/small market teams aren't able to sign players because they don't want to lose a draft pick in the following year. It has nothing to do with the money, those teams are willing to spend it, it's the loss of the pick that matters. Those teams can't afford to lose a pick. That's why it's a black eye. The small market/bad teams are at a bigger disadvantage now with limits than they were when they weren't.

    They're not able to attract the big market FAs, the only way they can get better is through the draft.
     
  2. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Theo Epstein spoke numerous times about how the new CBA hurts the turn around time with the Cubs. That he's not able to spend the money as he was when he was with the Red Sox because there are limits with it.

    I bet you'll hear the Pittsburgh GM speak up about it if they lose Appel.

    The new CBA already changed the way teams drafted this year too.

    Again though, regardless of what the MLB says, it's about keeping the owners rich by limiting the amount of money they spend in the draft. It has nothing to do with any responsibilities or any other non sense they say. It's all about money and the owners want to keep as much as possible and since the union is preventing them from putting a cap on spending at the ML level they're taking resources away from the players that don't have an union to stop it.
     
  3. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

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    I can see how this could possibly harm teams in the draft. They essentially have to prioritize their draft picks and determine how much to allocate early on, and it appears that there will be many casualties of the new CBA who go unsigned due to a lack of funds and priorities of the club concerning the pool of money. I'll give it another year before I judge it completely but it doesn't seem perfect. I think that the original intent was to try and create a level playing field for all.
     
  4. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Teams have drafted an extremely large number of college seniors in the first 10 rounds of the draft because they're viewed as easier and cheaper signs so the teams can allocate money in later rounds for the better talent that won't come as cheap. The Red Sox, for example, drafted one of their scout's sons in round 6 or 7 and signed him to an extremely low figure (like 100k) to save money in the later rounds, the funny part about it is they know that in September the kid is headed to the Army so they simply signed him for 100k for 2 months of summer ball so they would have more funds to use up in the other rounds. They (and other teams) have found loopholes like that already.
     
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  5. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Players Union and Owners signed off....if Theo really has a beef it with his owners, and if Appel or an Agent have a beef it with the players union.

    Its all typical whining right now, and no PROOF in the pudding that it is doing anything other then forcing clubs to SPEND wisely. Great for the game.

    If it really is bad as some want to moan about, they will change it on the next CBA. That is still to be determined. I wager, nothing changes, but they begin to show fiscal constraint on FA contracts and resigning too. It was only a matter of time, and great for the longevity and sustainability of the game.
     
  6. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Of course the Player's Union and owners signed off on it. Isn't it obvious why? The owners don't have to spend money in the draft anymore and the player's union keeps a salary cap away from the ML level. Do you actually think either of those two parties would be opposed to it?

    And of course if Theo or any of the other GMs have a beef with it they have a beef with the owners because they're the ones that pushed for it. And the Player's Union doesn't care about these draftees, they only care about the players that are in the union.

    Again though you keep saying how the new CBA is great for the longevity and sustainability of the game but why? Because it prevents teams from spending what they want to spend on draft picks, yet those teams don't have a spending limit on how much they can give to a minor or major league player? Think about it, how is that fair? How does limiting how much a team can spend in a draft help the longevity and sustainability of the game when teams are giving players in their 30s, 10 year 200+ million dollar deals? Or giving RPers 3 year deals for 27 million dollars? Maybe it's just me but spending 10 million or so on draft picks per year is spending money a lot better or wiser than giving Rafael Soriano, Bobby Jenks, or Heath Bell 8 or 9 million per year.

    You're just not getting the real reason why there are limits on how much teams can spend, it has nothing to do with the "good of the game" or any of that other non sense, it's simply to keep the owner's rich by not having to spend money on draft picks.

    But we'll have to wait and see, you obviously see no problem in bad teams being unable to sign their first round picks, not because they don't want to, but because they're limited in what they can offer and the penalties involved. Again my question is why should teams be forced to put a limit on how much they want to pay a player in the draft when they're not limited in what they can offer a professional player. It makes zero sense.

    If the Pirates think Mark Appel is worth 9 million dollars to sign why should the MLB say no, he's worth X amount because he was picked in the 1st Round at Pick Y, therefore you can only offer him Z or you'll lose your 1st round pick next year because you went over your spending amount you had for the first few rounds. Instead of teams focusing on getting the best players available they're not going to be focused on getting players they can sign to fit in that slot guidelines.

    Maybe it's just me but I just don't see how it helps teams. Seems like there are more negatives than positives here. I actually haven't read one positive for it here, instead just rehashing MLB's lines about why it's "good" for the game.
     
  7. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    And the key point is, if the Owners want that....so be it.....now the less talented GMs have to suck it up and quit *****ing about it!!!! :tongue2:

    whats good for the game is getting the stupid contracts under control....we cant allow the game to go from a $250M/10yr contract (which should not have happened except for bad owner decision), and let the money tick up to suddenly in a decades-plus time to watch a 1/2 Billion contract for 8/yrs...and then a Billion/6yrs, etc. Its bad business. So if the CBA protects all owners from one bad owner, so be it. Maybe this CBA teaches restraint.

    If the owners are smart enough to know that BASEBALL contracts (and all sports but focusing on BB here) are out of control, good for them to agree to prevent themselves from making fools of themselves going forward. That is good for the game.
     
  8. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Oh hey, the NL shutout the AL with the DH.
     
  9. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah? Anything exciting happen during the game?
     
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  10. dolphinkev

    dolphinkev Active Member

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    Yeah that was a 15 minute game, Lit Verlander up like a cheap firecracker and it was over, didn't watch anymore of it.
     
  11. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    The five unsigned players are: (Deadline is 5pm EST tonight)

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]Pick[/TD]
    [TD]Team[/TD]
    [TD]Player[/TD]
    [TD]School[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]5[/TD]
    [TD]Orioles[/TD]
    [TD]RHP Kevin Gausman[/TD]
    [TD]LSU[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]8[/TD]
    [TD]Pirates[/TD]
    [TD]RHP Mark Appel[/TD]
    [TD]Stanford[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]9[/TD]
    [TD]Marlins[/TD]
    [TD]LHP Andrew Heaney[/TD]
    [TD]Oklahoma State[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]16[/TD]
    [TD]Nationals[/TD]
    [TD]RHP Lucas Giolito[/TD]
    [TD]Harvard-Westlake (Calif.) H.S.[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]21[/TD]
    [TD]Rays[/TD]
    [TD]3B Richie Shaffer[/TD]
    [TD]Clemson[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Jon Heyman tweeted the Orioles are "likely" to sign Gausman.

    Appel could return to Stanford instead of signing a $3.8 million bonus. Pittsburgh has a draft cap of $6.56 million and has spent $2.58 million on its 16 picks. The slot bonus for the No. 8 pick is $2.9 million. Of all the unsigned picks, he seems to be the most likely not to sign.

    Several sources are reporting that the Marlins have ended negotiations with No. 9 overall pick Andrew Heaney out of Oklahoma State. It seems Marlins are refusing to even offer the slot.

    If a player does not sign, the team will get an extra pick -- one slot behind the original pick -- in next year's draft.
     
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  12. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Yeah the Marlins have already told Heaney that they aren't going to sign him.
     
  13. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    They have the freedom to run the club as they see fit, but overpaying for the likes of Bell and Buck (to name just two); trading for Lee (even if FREE) but not playing others that mean more to their youth and future; and now refusing to sign a top pick when by all indications they have the funds.....

    ....I dont get it...but thats Loria in a big way.

    Negotiation tactics or not till the last hour (which this doesnt seem to be) or getting the #10 pick in 1st round next year???? I dont like it, but MLB always has a foolish owner that can muck things up. So be it....
     
  14. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    This. Exactly right. The Marlins just got a new ballpark they didn't have to pay for and spent big money this off season yet they decide to go cheap by not signing their 1st round pick or even spending any money in the international FA market makes zero sense.

    Next year's draft class is suppose to be pretty weak right now but it's never a good idea to punt on a 1st round pick in any given year to try and get 2 picks in the next year.

    EDIT: Looks like he's going to sign after all.
     
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  15. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Rays have agreed to terms with Shaffer.
     
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  16. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Havent seen any details...??


    OTHER BREAKING NEWS:

    The Marlins have agreed to sign first round selection Andrew Heaney, Jim Callis of Baseball America reports. The Oklahoma State left-hander obtained a $2.6MM bonus just one day after an agreement seemed highly unlikely.

    The Marlins selected Heaney with the ninth overall pick in last month's draft after he established himself as the best college southpaw available. MLB recommends a $2.8MM bonus for the ninth overall selection.
     
  17. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    @KendallRogersPG: I'm told a deal is done between Richie Shaffer and the #Rays. Just hasn't officially signed. Will sign in the $1.7M range #MLBDraft #Clemson"

    Which is just under slotted money.
     
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  18. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Giolito is going to be the tough sign, he was possibly going to be the #1 pick overall until he got hurt in March hence why he dropped all the way to Washington with the 18th pick. I definitely could see him going to JC for a year to prove he's healthy and heading back to the draft.
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Funny to see everyone's reaction about Heaney.
     
  20. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Well speaking for myself, it was really a reaction to the Miami Marlins FO decision making....but all moot now for the time being it seems over this draft (aside from existing contracts :shifty:)
     
  21. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yup typical overreaction before the actual deadline. You'd think we would learn our lesson year after year to stop bashing the team until after the deadline and once the player officially doesn't sign instead of taking what "insiders" say to heart.
     
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  22. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well that's essentially what I meant. The reactions toward the FO for not signing Heaney on this thread and from Marlins fans were funny.
     
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  23. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Lol!
     
  24. Mainge

    Mainge Season Ticket Holder

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    I called it yesterday. You don't just end negotiations a full day early just because. That was a big time leverage ploy and it worked.
     
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  25. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Below you'll see a table for each league, and listed alongside each team will be the average winning percentage of its remaining opponents and then the number of home games and road games left on the schedule.

    Teams will be sorted by descending order of remaining-opponents' winning percentage (all data courtesy of the most excellent CoolStandings.com).

    First up, the American League ...
    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]Team[/TD]
    [TD]Remaining opponents' WIN%[/TD]
    [TD]Home games/road games[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Red Sox[/TD]
    [TD].530[/TD]
    [TD]35/41[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Blue Jays
    [/TD]
    [TD].529[/TD]
    [TD]39/37[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Athletics[/TD]
    [TD].524[/TD]
    [TD]37/39[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Mariners[/TD]
    [TD].524[/TD]
    [TD]40/35[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Rays[/TD]
    [TD].519[/TD]
    [TD]38/38[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Angels[/TD]
    [TD].513[/TD]
    [TD]38/38[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Orioles[/TD]
    [TD].513[/TD]
    [TD]39/38[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Tigers[/TD]
    [TD].513[/TD]
    [TD]39/37[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Royals[/TD]
    [TD].512[/TD]
    [TD]44/34[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Twins[/TD]
    [TD].510[/TD]
    [TD]39/38[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Yankees[/TD]
    [TD].507[/TD]
    [TD]40/37[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Rangers[/TD]
    [TD].503[/TD]
    [TD]36/40[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Indians[/TD]
    [TD].500[/TD]
    [TD]36/41[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]White Sox[/TD]
    [TD].492[/TD]
    [TD]35/42[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    Believe it or not, just three of the 14 AL teams enter the second half with losing records, and that explains all those relatively high opponents' winning percentages you see above.


    Now to the National League ...

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]Team[/TD]
    [TD]Remaining opponents' WIN%[/TD]
    [TD]Home games/road games[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Phillies[/TD]
    [TD].513[/TD]
    [TD]37/38[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Marlins[/TD]
    [TD].510[/TD]
    [TD]37/40[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Mets[/TD]
    [TD].506[/TD]
    [TD]35/41[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Astros[/TD]
    [TD].503[/TD]
    [TD]36/40[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Cubs[/TD]
    [TD].500[/TD]
    [TD]42/35[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Padres[/TD]
    [TD].498[/TD]
    [TD]37/38[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Brewers[/TD]
    [TD].493[/TD]
    [TD]38/39[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Rockies[/TD]
    [TD].490[/TD]
    [TD]38/39[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Braves[/TD]
    [TD].488[/TD]
    [TD]39/38[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Nationals[/TD]
    [TD].487[/TD]
    [TD]41/38[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Cardinals[/TD]
    [TD].485[/TD]
    [TD]38/38[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Dodgers[/TD]
    [TD].485[/TD]
    [TD]38/37[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Diamondbacks[/TD]
    [TD].475[/TD]
    [TD]37/40[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Giants[/TD]
    [TD].464[/TD]
    [TD]39/37[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Reds[/TD]
    [TD].464[/TD]
    [TD]42/35[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Pirates[/TD]
    [TD].462[/TD]
    [TD]38/39[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Over in the Central, the Reds and Pirates have a notably easier go of it than do the Cardinals. More specifically, Cincy will play just six more road games against teams currently with winning records.

    Giants vs. Dodgers should come down to the wire too.

    The Astros, meanwhile, look like strong bets to land the top-overall pick for a second-consecutive draft.
     
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  26. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Just seconds before today’s 5:00 p.m. eastern time deadline the Nationals and No. 16 overall pick Lucas Giolito agreed to a $2.925 million bonus, according to Jim Callis of Baseball America. Slot value for the 16th pick was $2.125 million, so drawing things out until the last second earned Giolito an extra $800,000 and by going over their allotted budget the Nationals will have to pay a tax. They will not, however, have to forfeit a draft pick next year, which is something general manager Mike Rizzo insisted all along they were unwilling to do.

    P.S. Every first round and supplemental first round pick signed except for Stanford right-hander Mark Appel, who turned down the Pirates as the eighth overall pick. The Pirates will receive the 9th overall pick as compensation in next years draft.

    Meanwhile the Mets (76th overall), Phillies (96th), and Athletics (supplemental third round) will also receive picks for failing to sign players before yesterday's deadline.
     
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  27. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    You think this guy is a 24M dollar pitcher?

     
  28. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    What human is?????
     
  29. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's great, but it's hard justifying giving one player 24 million a season. If Cain and Lee got a contract like that, though, then I think Hamels deserves it, too.

    I think they get it done.
     
  30. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    ...
     
  31. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    yeah, hope Dempster stays in NL (would love to see him on Dodgers or Braves)....and if Liriano gets shipped to NL (Braves?), (or LAA) that would be a boost too (for my Fantasy squad:tongue2:).

    So many rumors....I am amazed at how FEW "legit" relievers vs Starters from arm side are being trumpeted....

    Rumors abound for these names to be on the market at the moment for the NON-WAIVER trade deadline (ends July 31st).

    Rumored available bats:


    Justin Upton
    Carlos Quentin
    Shane Victorino
    Justin Morneau
    Josh Willingham
    Denard Span
    Michael Cuddyer
    Alfonso Soriano
    Bryan LaHair
    Chase Headley
    Adam Lind
    Mark Kotsay
    Marco Scutaro
    Chris Johnson
    Chris Denorfia
    Seth Smith
    Jonny Gomes
    Coco Crisp


    Rumored available arms:


    Cole Hamels
    Zack Greinke
    Wandy Rodriguez
    Matt Garza
    Ryan Dempster
    Francisco Liriano
    Edinson Volquez
    Brandon McCarthy
    Bartolo Colon
    Kevin Millwood
    Huston Street
    Jonathan Broxton
    Rafael Betancourt
    Francisco Rodriguez
    Matt Capps
    Grant Balfour
    Bret Myers
    Brandon Lyon
     
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  32. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Yowza....horrible fail.

    Jonathan Sanchez's tenure with the Royals lasted 12 starts and a stint on the disabled list, as he was designated for assignment Tuesday. You can definitely say the Giants got the better part of the deal when they traded Sanchez to the Royals in the offseason for All-Star outfielder Melky Cabrera. Sanchez, who posted a 7.76 ERA and 2.04 WHIP, could find his way into another MLB rotation.
     
  33. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Mike Trout is unbelievable.
     
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  34. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Modern day Mickey Mantle by all accounts who saw him play in his youth....
     
  35. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Woah, you actually witnessed Mantle playing?
     
  36. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yes he did. Big Dog was also around before baseball was invented/created. RESPECT YOUR ELDER!
     
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  37. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Trout is faster than Mantle......
     
  38. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    HaHa, only in film. But my Dad did, and if you listen to those that did see with their own eyes and who still report on the game, what we are seeing is what they experienced in the first season, etc with Mantle, and Mays impacts on the game.

    P.S. Best story my Dad loves to remind us, "He had tickets to Don Larson's perfect game...but had conflict with College Exam...so he gave his ticket to his kid brother (my uncle G). My uncle never lets him forget it."

    Ok!
     
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  39. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    Just trying to keep it factual, I know you like your facts!! :tongue2:
     
  40. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Nov 27, 2007
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    What facts do you have? Good speculation though!
     

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