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Sports Buzz ...Dolphin position battles brewing

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by CrunchTime, Jul 22, 2012.

  1. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    There is a lot more on position battles .Learn who looks good and who is on the bubble:up:
     
  2. Miamifins854

    Miamifins854 Finkle is Einhorn

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    Barry Jackson's reports are solid and spot on. Lots of different quotes and news from many different sources.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's pretty significant that Mike Pouncey came right out on record for David Garrard. In listening to them all interviewed, they've all been very good at being political about the QB competition. Brian Hartline was the only one to break with that by saying Matt Moore is his guy, but he admitted it had nothing to do with how they're looking in the competition but rather just because he's already caught passes from him. Pouncey's observation (if he's correct) that the pace of the offense while Garrard is in seems to be at a whole different level could be the nail in the coffin. This staff really seems to care about the offense's pace a lot.

    I like that Barry Jackson brings up that if Daniel Thomas doesn't significantly improve then it will open the door for Lamar Miller. One thing that I think people don't acknowledge enough is that with Steve Ross' admission that the staff had a 1st round grade on Lamar Miller, there's a significant chance the Dolphins internally had Miller rated higher than Daniel Thomas. As Barry Jackson says, Thomas was awful in short yardage situations a year ago, which were supposed to be his thing. That's not exactly Lamar Miller's forte, but the weakness in the Daniel Thomas story does open the door for him.

    It's interesting (if true) that Joe Philbin really likes Legedu Naanee as the 4th. I know there have been Philbin quotes about Naanee bandied about but I saw that interview and Philbin was asked specifically about Naanee so he talked about him, and his praise seemed faint, his descriptions obvious, I didn't get the feel of any sparkle in his eye or anything like that. Barry Jackson was saying that Naanee just has to make sure some young guys don't outperform him by a lot in preseason, and I don't think that's quite accurate. As the 4th with all those younger guys behind him, Jeff Ireland is going to push for any rookie/young player that is CLOSE to Naanee to actually leap him on the depth chart. That's his habit. Veteran guy versus young guy, if it's close, the young guy wins. That's actually been a publicly stated philosophy for the Dolphins under Jeff Ireland.

    I continue to find it interesting that so many coaches around the league think so highly of Matt Moore. It's BROAD support at this point. This isn't the first piece that has dragged out the opinions of several head coaches and front office executives that think Matt Moore is really good. Whether we're crazy and they're right, I won't get into. The competition will play itself out. However, if Moore loses the quarterback competition...does that mean he has trade value?
     
  4. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    Never held Hartline's opinion in high regard. He'll say what he thinks the front office wants him to say.
     
  5. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I liked reading the part about people believing Michael Egnew could be "great". We havent had a great TE here in a very long time.

    I want to see more from Daniel Thomas, Jonathan Wade/Nolan Carroll, and John Jerry (who is a RT not a RG imo). If we believe Jerry is a guard he should be traded immediately to someone who sees him as a tackle...get a pick for him and sign Jake Scott (Guard-Titans) immediately. As a guard Jerry will simply operate like a phone booth guard which is not really zone-blocking-scheme-friendly. Its also completely unnecessary in a ZBS. Scott is a much better fit for what Philbin is probably looking for from a guard.

    I dont believe that Legadu Nanee will make this team. He cant play ST's (returns) and hes not a deep guy. Hes pretty much a possession guy with mediocre hands making him a lesser version of Bess and Ocho at this stage. That also makes him completely unnecessary. If we keep 5 the obvious 5 imo are: Bess-Hartline-Ocho-Wallace-Matthews/Cunningham winner. If we keep 6 its between Matthews/Cunningham/Fuller/Moore/Pruitt/Gates/Nanee and the winner will be dependent on whether they want a proven player or upside.
     
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  6. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    I know Ireland doesn't make a traditional draft board. From what I recall hearing about it is that he ranks each positions and then I think he picks certain positions in certain parts in the draft. That being said, I wonder how we viewed the guys we drafted ahead of Miller. I can confidently say we had first round grades on Tannehill, Martin, and Miller but I wonder if we also had 1st round grades on Egnew and Vernon. I doubt it, I think we had a goal of drafting a DE and TE and took those guys because they were at the top player at the respective positions when we decided we wanted to pick them. Still that means Vernon and Egnew had to have at least a solid 2nd round rating on them, if Ireland was willing to take them and pass on Miller until later considering he had a first round grade on him. So overall, in Ireland's eyes we picked up three 1st round draft picks and like two second round draft picks.

    In Ireland's eyes I am sure we hit this draft out of the ballpark, hopefully it translates.
     
  7. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    I do not live in the area but read all the papers online and IMO, Jackson is the best of all of them. Omar at times is not half bad but the guy always pulls the trigger on something to be first in line and it usually blows up in his face. Also, his practice reports. Sometimes I honestly wonder if I was at the same practice he was at.

    Armando ? story teller to day the least. Kid loves a good mystery novel LOL. IMO, Miller is going to turn out to be better then Thomas, a lot better.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The praise of Egnew from Anthony Fasano is something I take with a grain of salt. Minus a point because Fasano is Egnew's direct mentor, minus a point because Fasano talked about Egnew within the context of talking about the entire position and listing the other guys behind him, minus a point because his description of Egnew was nothing more than the tired old "big guy who can run" language we hear all the time about tons of players who end up being total scrubs.
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    A) What you describe is actually a traditional draft board, because most teams primarily put together their boards horizontally rather than vertically. Most teams do both, but they primarily pay attention to the horizontal stacking. Every player in the horizontal stacking has a pure grade which identifies what round he's worthy of going in, and his grade within that round (not a ranking).

    B) I'm pretty sure they drafted several players ahead of Lamar Miller that didn't have a 1st round grade. The Dolphins draft based on need.

    C) How do you know they had a 1st round grade on Jonathan Martin? The position was a big time need. Don't you find that conspicuous?

    D) I'm not sure that Egnew and Vernon needed to have 2nd round grades. Egnew was a need, and he very well could have been the last Day 2 worthy Tight End left on the board. If there was a big gap between Egnew and the next group of tight ends on their board, that could be why they took a 3rd round player in the 3rd round even though there was a 1st round player available at a position they considered a strength (tailback).

    E) Ireland's already said that if you're grading this Draft purely on where THEY internally had all these guys rated, they "hit it out of the park". I have no doubt they had 1st round grades on Tannehill and Miller. There's a possibility they had a 1st round grade on Jon Martin although I'm a little skeptical since it was such a position of heavy need. I think they may have had a 2nd round grade on Olivier Vernon although I believe they had a 3rd round grade on Michael Egnew and took him because of need and because there was probably a big gap between him and the next guys on their ranking. I think the B.J. Cunningham pick was for a coach, just my opinion, and I think Ireland had Rishard Matthews graded higher. I think Ireland probably had Kheeston Randall much higher than the 7th round. Not really a position of need but he still picked him even with Rishard Matthews on the board.
     
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  10. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    4 more days to report, 5 more day till camp....its finally around the corner
     
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  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That quote about Egnew was from Fasano right Matt?

    I remember when Lagadu first came into the league and playing for the chargers, liking his game and thinking to myself he was a pretty good player, wanna see if our youngsters developed before I just dismiss him.

    If Garrard wins it in a good competition, maybe Philbin and green bay talk about a trade, Graham Harrell is the backup to Rodgers, however they seem like a team that will stick to their development system, but if there is a trade partner I would certainly do it, for all reasons related to Tannehill and his rep count.

    Keep hearing things about how Chad looks explosive off the line and whatnot, that video that surfaced a few weeks ago showed that he does have his quickness off the line, and it wasn't a normal receiver type quickness, it was better than you would think, I wrote a couple years ago saying that I think his game would digress because of what I saw in relation to his physique, so I'm anxious to see if what I saw improved.

    Gates is 26 years old, time to step up son..Hopefully he's one who worked real hard this offseason because he really needs the strength.

    Want to see this Wade kid play, I'm not a fan of Nolan Carroll.

    I would love it if Javorskie Lane or Messam are talented and can block and catch, one of them being able to play fullback and be our short yardage guy would be nice for our rosters overall talent grade.

    If some of those short yardage carries came over the right side of our line, that stat might be a small sample size to judge Thomas, because they really sucked.

    Our three tight ends sure are different from one another, pretty diverse to line'em all up in a set, could be cool.

    Be there Friday to see that Sh&$ live baby.
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, thing is the reports about Johnson should be taken with a grain of salt until the preseason games begin as even practices are not the real thing, that is where he will show whether he has it or not.

    IMO, have a hard time seeing Legedu and Johnson both on the opening day roster.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    "killed it" is the phrase he used.
     
  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Their both really talented from a physical standpoint, we know Clemons is fast but jones barely missed out on posting in the 4.4 Range...he seemed late in his reaction time last year, hopefully just coming from being unsure, when I saw him diagnos early, he exploded to the ball.

    I like Clemons so I'm fine with him starting.
     
  15. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Lane, when at ATM, was a one man wrecking crew. Did not and have not followed him since but do know while in college, the kid ran some people over bigtime. Maybe not John Riggins type of big time but still, the kid could run and was the size of a house. Crap, if he can accomplish a foot on 4th and one, Keep him.
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    FWIW Daniel Thomas gained 3.520 yards per carry to the left side and 3.522 yards per carry to the right side...pretty identical.
     
  17. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I was, and still am skeptical about the Daniel Thomas pick. I thought Ireland trading up to get him was pretty questionable. I see a big RB who has some change-of-direction ability, and isn't simply a North-South runner... and, I get that players like that have value... however, I don't see that he has particularly good vision, and he's rather soft for a bigger player.

    However, I love the Lamar Miller pick. 4th rounder? Wow. I'm still kinda giddy about it.

    Now, It wouldn't shock me at all to see Miller overtake Thomas although Miller is a similar player to Bush, and he doesn't offer the 'power' ability the Phins might need behind Reggie. Although it's more of a long-shot, It wouldn't exactly shock me to see Jonas Gray beat Thomas out. At this point, I kinda like a healthy Gray better. I think he runs better than Thomas.
     
  18. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    A.) I thought most teams would put together a horizontal board of each player rated within his position (QB would go Luck, RG3, Tannehill, etc.). Then use the horizontal board factoring in team need, players talent level, and position depth to piece together a vertical board where players and positions are intertwine (Luck, RG3, Richardson, Kalil, etc). I've always thought this is how most teams ran their drafts which is why "following their draft board" was a common expression. I thought Ireland was unique because he only did horizontal rankings; unique in the fact that he wouldn't follow the way most teams did it. From what I have understood Ireland mostly would slot certain positions at certain rounds; he would say the QB talent is top heavy so I want to try to get one at #8 (as long as Tannehill is there), then I need a tackle that can come in and start so I'll grab one in the 2nd (Martin), in the third round I'd like to upgrade my pass rush (Vernon), etc, etc. I felt he would follow that, but at the same time he would stray from it if there was a player he felt was incredible value (Lamar Miller).

    B.) That makes sense as we easily could have gotten by without taking Miller this draft. I have a feeling Ireland looked at his board and felt that Miller was just too good of a value not to draft at that point though.

    C.) I just assumed he had a first round grade because we were picking so early in the second round. Also in the beginning of the draft process I was seeing him consistently mocked in the top 15. His stock sort of took a nose dive in the combine and pro day because supposedly he was sick. I am curious if Ireland overlooked those factors and let his game tape speak alone while he ranked Martin. They could have had a lower grade on him though. You are correct about it being a major need and after him there was a big drop off in talent.

    D.) That makes a lot of sense.

    E.) I really like the fact that Ireland came out and said the way he felt about this draft. Since we "killed it" from their internal rankings this could be the draft that really shows how good of a GM Ireland really is. Sometimes things fall your way and other times they don't. Since things supposedly fell our way during this years draft and Ireland feels that strongly about our draft, I think this could really let us see Ireland's true talent.
     
  19. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    So, am I the only one who believes Thomas can be a solid contributor for us?

    The combo of Bush/Miller and Thomas has me excited. Very different running styles.
     
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  20. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Also, ckp do you think we would have taken Cordy Glenn over Jonathan Martin if they were both on the board?
     
  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ok...yeah I was just thinking that if he ran behind that side during those attempts it could directly affect that average..
     
  22. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    Yes you are
     
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  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    No way of knowing but I don't think Cordy Glenn fit their style very well.
     
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  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Man do I agree with E. I keep saying we should know by mid season what we truly have.
     
  25. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    At this time next year the 2 guys currently atop the depth chart won't even be on the team, IMO.
    Bush and Thomas will be replaced by Miller and either Lane or Messam or Gray.
     
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  26. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, he's not. I expect Thomas to have a break out season for us.
     
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  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If Bush fits this offense and puts up a 1500 or more total yard season, why the hell would we want to get rid of him.?
     
  28. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    He is a UFA.
     
  29. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's a free agent. There's no guarantee he'd want to stay either.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I understand that Ro, but was questioning the presumptuousness of PSG's take on the situation...Hypothetically, let's say he reaches that number and is a good fit for this offense, why wouldn't both parties be interested in each other.?
     
  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I somewhat agree. I think basing Thomas's long range potential on just his rookie season, would be rather foolish. I don't know that he'll break out this year, but I'm sure not ready to just toss him aside and give up on him, which seems to be the attitude of many here.
     
  32. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    People seem to have unfair criticisms with Thomas. He played his rookie year banged up and people want to draw conclusions based on that. Totally unfair IMO. Give the kid a chance with a real offseason and a full bill of health.
     
  33. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Well, let's be even more accurate: the Dolphins draft based on Jeff Ireland's job status.
     
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  34. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    What if you draw your conclusions on what you saw from him in college?
     
  35. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    What is so bad about his college tape? I'm seriously asking, I didn't see anything except youtube highlight videos.
     
  36. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    I saw a slower Ronnie Brown who was less physical.
     
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  37. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    If he has another season like he had last year, someone will break the bank for him and pay more than this FO will be willing to play.
    I think the drafting of Miller and the lack of an extension for Bush speaks volumes.
    But I have nothing to base this on other than a gut feeling.
     
  38. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Well, he did have a 3rd round grade on him, so he has talent. Give the kid a fair shot.
     
  39. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    We took him in the second lol
     
  40. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I know, but it seems like we reached for him a bit lol.
     
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