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QB Competition is still up in the air

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan7171, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. dolfan7171

    dolfan7171 Well-Known Member

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  2. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I think Garrard will be the guy going into the season. He's either going to be Pennington 2.0 or he's going to be bad. If he's bad and we suck Tannehill will get his shot.
     
  3. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    IF he is ready to start week 1 vs the best defense we will see all year, then he will be good to go against everyone else.
     
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  4. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm pretty sure I know how Jeff Ireland would vote.

    "If it's close, you go with the young guy".
     
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  5. Mexphin

    Mexphin Well-Known Member

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  6. Mexphin

    Mexphin Well-Known Member

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    Sorry i'am in the office and dont have enough time to make up the post.
     
  7. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    And I don't disagree. Especially in this case.
     
  8. bberg

    bberg Squid

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    ya... it's a tough decision. I'm sure Philbin will make the right call!
     
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  9. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    My stance is the same. I want him to start. Might be rough first month, but what Ryan Tannehill needs more than anything is playing time.
     
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  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'd play the best guy and right now I think the best guy is David Garrard.

    With a young quarterback, you don't want to force anything. You have to let the story happen.
     
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  11. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    I haven't seen Devlin throw one pass since preseason last year so I don't have a clue how he has looked so far ... I've heard a few good comments on him this camp with only a couple of bad mentions. What are the chances they keep Devlin and let the loser of the Moore/Garrard competition go either via a trade or cut?
     
  12. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    This.

    Forcing a QB on the team is a quick way to lose the team. We've seen this recently with Chad Henne.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  14. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    I think a cut is out of the question. A trade is tempting if there's good value for one of them.
     
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  15. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    I think Pat White will ultimately win the competition, dude is a play maker.
     
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  16. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You don't want to force it, but how close to Garrard does Tannehill have to be to warrant getting the nod?

    I think it's unlikely that Tanny will be flat out better than Garrard during the preseason, if only because Garrard is less prone to egregious mistakes (although he fumbles at an alarming rate).

    But if Tannehill is 80% as good as Garrard, don;t you need to start him?

    The team will just have to get it over it, much like the Giants had to get over benching Warner for Eli even though they were above.500 and the Bengals a long time ago had to get over benching Kitna for Palmer after Kitna led them to an 8-8 season.
     
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  17. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think there's no chance Garrard gets cut. He's clearly the best QB at this point. However, if Garrard stays healthy, and the Phins can't find a trade partner for Moore, I think it's very likely that Moore is cut. I don't see the point in sitting Tannehill at #3. I think what CK said about what Ireland may say... "If it's close, go with the young guy"... I think you can equally apply that to backup positions as well as starting positions. If Moore is kept on as a backup to Garrard, it only hurts Tannehill's development. There's no point to it.
     
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  18. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    After first reading Garrard had been signed, I predicted he would be the opening day starter. I like Moore, but Garrard has quite a bit of experience in this type of offense and he really was a pretty decent QB for several years in Jax. Combine that with his raw hunger and chip on his shoulder to demonstrate he can play at a high level, and I anticipate he'll have a pretty good year. Maybe not Pennington good, but good enough to get us 9 wins, assuming the D doesn't wear out from being on the field so much with this fast break offense.
     
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  19. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Up tempo offense =/= Fast break offense
     
  20. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    Then I'd throw Moore at #3. There would be a trade partner at some point. I think Devlin is useless.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's something I don't think people pay enough attention to. It's not just about ruining or stroking the quarterback's fragile psyche, as if all these quarterbacks are delicate basket cases. But collectively the players around the quarterback are fragile, when it comes to how much they trust and believe in the guy. You do have to sort of script it like a story. You want guys to believe.
     
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  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    No.
     
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  23. RevRick

    RevRick Long Haired Leaping Gnome Club Member

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    Not hardly... You start the quarterback who can play the best. If that is Tannehill by a clear margin - so be it. If not, then Moore or Garrard starts. An 80% as effective rookie QB starting over the one who is playing best - no matter when drafted - is a disaster waiting to happen for team chemistry, and even more, for the rook. He hasn't earned the job - and everyone from the team ball dryer to the opponents head coaches will know it!
     
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  24. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    There are really a myriad of issues that can arise. If Tannehill isn't the best QB but still starts, does the same apply to John Martin or Olivier Vernon? Do veteran players feel that the best player isn't going to play, but instead the player that the coaches want to develop? How would guys like Reggie Bush react if they feel their next contract will be for less money simply because the coaches wanted to develop a QB?

    It all comes back to the "run through a wall" mentality. That mentality is developed when the players feel the coach has the same goal they do, and is credible. Tony Sparano had a ton of credibility with players. He would always have their back, but more importantly he turned a 1-15 team into a competitive team. That gained him the credibility he needed, so when he decided to go with a worse QB (Henne), the players at least trusted that he knew what he was doing. Thats why I keep saying that Philbin needs to come out and put some wins together early. Doing that will give him the credibility he needs, and then he can do things like start a QB that isn't necessarily the one that gives the team the best chance to win.
     
  25. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So how was Henne forced into the starting line up when Penny got the season ending injury against the SD in 2009? Henne was the back up was he not in 2009? Went 7-5 if I remember correctly (not defending him), on games he started and finshed...

    Then in 2010 he and Penny were in competiton because Penny was still not 100% recovered... When Penny came into play against the Titans after Sporano benched Henne, he messed his shoulder again after his second pass attempt..

    Now I am not saying he was the root cause of some of the Offensive scoring problems, but don't know how you can say he was forced, unless you can say that he was not better than Pat White or Thiggy in those few years...

    I might have missed something, so please tell me how Henne was forced???
     
  26. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In theory, doesn't Rex Grossman give the Redskins a better chance to win than RGIII? I mean, any decent veteran is likely to outperform most rookies. Yet RGIII is going to be the starter and its the right call.

    Sure, he might make some mistakes early, and have some bad stretches, but he is simply a more talented player than the veteran option and over the course of the season, playing the more talented player will eventually pay off.

    Garrard is ok. He's had some good seasons in the past. He is also 34 coming off back surgery and hasn't played in a year. Sure, he might be the safer, steadier option, and I suppose he might win a low scoring game or two that Tanny maybe wouldn't (although there are dozens of other factors that go into the results), but Tannehill is the more talented player, the better thrower of the football, and if you let him play in September, by december hopefully he is playing very well and then everybody will have something to believe in for next year.
     
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  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't know if I see it quite that way. I don't think players resent their coaches when the golden child starts. There's a reality in this business and most players recognize it.

    Where it takes a toll is how they react with the player himself, and how they perform. That's pretty important because a QB needs to make the players around him respond, he needs to make them better. Tough to do that when they're not convinced he's all that good.
     
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  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Speaking as someone that was a vocal doubter of RGIII coming out of the Draft, my answer is no. I think that's a bad example.

    At this moment I do not know if I would describe Tannehill's throwing of the football as better than David Garrard's, just on the issue of accuracy. Arm strength certainly. Accuracy and control, ability to use different trajectories in different situations...Garrard may still be ahead.
     
  29. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I like the approach though of the staff. The decision doesn't need to be made today.

    Let's see what happens over another week of camp and the first pre-season game. If Tannehill starts struggling and falls flat on his face during the game, then we can re-evaluate.
     
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  30. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Reading the full report, it seems obvious that RT is not close to being ready. The speed of the game when he's pressured will eat him up right now. That could lead to more than just a poor 1st month, but also to ingrained bad habits that could take years to correct. He needs more than playing time. He needs to sit and watch a veteran handle those situations. It's not about how close he is. It's about giving him the best chance to succeed. Rushing him in to satisfy fan's impatience doesn't do that.

    On this 11 on 11 drill, most of the plays called were runs, unfortunately they were not all runs

    QUARTERBACKS:

    Ryan Tannehill: Sadly, Ryan Tannehill showed us why he’s a rookie during this drill. He had no sense of urgency and once he finally noticed the pressure, it was too late too react, which in turn lead to many passes to the ground or the sideline. RT went 2/6 on the drill, including one swatted pass by Jamal Westerman, but also a drop by Charles Clay.

    http://www.thephinsider.com/2012/8/1/3214426/a-phinsider-look-at-training-camp-day-5
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    A good example would actually be the Tennessee Titans in 2011. The problem there though, is most people regard the Titans as having done the right thing by sitting Jake Locker in favor of Matt Hasselbeck.

    Was it clear that Locker had more physical talent than Hasselbeck at this stage? Yes. But the Titans would not have made a run at the playoffs if they had Jake Locker throwing the football all year. I know his passer rating looks high but I did take a look at the games he played and the accuracy was still way off, the decision making still spotty at times, and he caught a few breaks. I think they made the right choice starting Hasselbeck. This year I think they're going to go with Locker. We'll see how that works out for them.
     
  32. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No Grossman does not give the Skins a better chance to win currently.. He was 16 TDs and 20 INts last year, a rookie would have INT issues also, but RG III has the mobility that Grossman does not have to make plays...

    Grossman career wise has more INTs than TD... that tells me a good, average or even a decent vet QB he is not... the stats support this theory, so the best move this season that the Skins should have made was to go with another starting QB, one that has more talent and skills than their current vets...

    IMHO...
     
  33. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You may very well be right, as of today.

    But as I said, the decision doesn't need to be made today. All I want is for the coaching staff to not completely discount the possibility and give the guy a fair shot. If at the end of the fair shake they decide to go with Garrard for awhile, then fine.

    And it seems that is the approach they are taking, which I think is good for everybody.

    The one thing I will not back down about is that Tanny should be the #2 at least. No reason for both veterans to be ahead of him
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think Matt Moore can be safely knocked out of this competition in the 1st preseason game if he doesn't bring this vaunted "gamer" production to that game against the Buccaneers. However, I'm not knocking Tannehill out of the competition until after the second preseason game...personally.
     
  35. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I don't believe it was ever a competition in 2010.

    I don't think there was a competition in 2011 either. I believe that Moore would beat Henne in an open-competition.
     
  36. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    IMO, absolutely not. But also keep in mind that Grossman led the team to a pretty poor record. The team last season finished 6-3, and it appeared the players responded to him. If Grossman had done that, then I could see players on the Redskins believing that he deserves to compete for the starting spot.
     
  37. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    IMO each of the 3 QBs should get 2 quarters Atlleast with the 1's in the preseason, the picture should be much clearer after that.
     
  38. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    it didn't sound like the vets he'd be learning from did much better.

    David Garrard: The little action that Garrard had throwing on the drill was all I needed to see. Garrard went 0/1 with a sack -___-

    Matt Moore: If anyone could do worse that Garrard on the drill, it was Moore. Moore went 1/4 on the drill with two swatted passes. However he did have a nice 25-yard pass to Legedu Naanee close to the corner of the endzone.



    Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
     
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  39. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    what really sucks is Tannehill can theoretically have a better camp and preseason than Luck, RG3 and Weeden and yet those 3 will all start while Tannehill sits.

    if Tannehill starts right away i dont think it will be a case of Philbin forcing him on the team, he's already impressed and the players know that his knowledge of the offense is at least one advantage he has over the vet QBs.
     
  40. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If I remember correctly it was not a competition 2010 because Penny was still not 100%, if not Henne who would have been the starter for the Fins?..

    Henne had a decent year in 2009 replacing Penny after he got injured... Again after a decent 2009 and some knowledge and control of the Offense, other than Henne, who in the rosters should have started for the Fins if Penny was not 100%???
     

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