1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

31,000 Scientists Rejecting Global Warming Theory to be Named Monday

Discussion in 'Science & Technology' started by maynard, May 21, 2008.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Without China and India signing and implementing any treaty Darkoak, it won't matter, if every gallon of gas we save is used by either one of those countries, the same pollution will occur.

    And that is "if" the thesis is that Man Centered Global Warming is a fact, and not posing as one.
     
  2. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

    20,213
    11,565
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    46.73° N, 117.00° W
    Indeed. Perchlorate had been found in the water of over 30 states as well as in bovine and human breast milk. Our lab has identified and sub-cultured microorganisms that are able to reduce perchlorate as well as arsenic in water. Some of our folks are working to isolate the perchlorate operon and clone it into microorganisms that form biofilms so that native bacteria in perchlorate and arsenic contaminated waters will take up the plasmid and start reducing the contaminates.
     
  3. Darkoak

    Darkoak Gone for good.

    7,449
    2,003
    0
    Apr 4, 2008
    I can't see 10 billion cubic tons of Co2 being added to the atmosphere every year as a non-factor, call me crazy for it, but I can't.
     
  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Crazy.








    Even with that being added to the atmosphere, how much is utilized by plants and forrests? As I recall, the previous eras of Global Warming, there was a boom in agricultural production with wine vineyards being planted in Northern England and Greenland being settled and prosperous at the time of the colonies foundation.

    Which brings up the next..err. "interesting" finding:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...o-planet-than-cosub2sub-from-cars-427843.html

    It would seem, SUV's have been replaced as the next EcoVillians, the real Darth Vaders are:

    It's the Cow, my goodness, they have been plotting their vengeance ever since a burger was put on a grill....:lol::lol:
     
  5. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

    38,949
    20,033
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    I presume you're referring to the Kyoto Protocol, in which case I don't think you understand exactly what its terms and conditions are. It basically amounts to a kneecapping of the US economy while letting everyone else--including the two fastest-growing economies in the world, China and India--off the hook. Kyoto is such a joke that the Senate rejected it 98-0.
     
  6. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

    38,949
    20,033
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    Check out this series of YouTube videos, which are a recording of a lecture given by Australian Bob Carter on the legitimacy of the data behind the global warming/climate change/"rape the US economy" movement.

    Part one, part two, part three, part four.
     
  7. Darkoak

    Darkoak Gone for good.

    7,449
    2,003
    0
    Apr 4, 2008
    I can tell you what's knee-capping the US economy and it isn't Kyoto. It's out-sourcing labor, but that's a topic for another thread. And no I wasn't referring to Kyoto in my previous post.
     
  8. Darkoak

    Darkoak Gone for good.

    7,449
    2,003
    0
    Apr 4, 2008
    But you are kindly leaving out massive de-forestation of the planet coinciding with massive Co2 and Co4 ( methane ) production attributed to man as well. So it could be a collection of man-made factors leading to global climate change...oh wait there's no chance of that......riiiight?
     
  9. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

    38,949
    20,033
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    The loss of call center jobs (most of which are now coming back to the US anyway) are in no way economically damaging, but that is indeed for another thread.

    In the meantime, I think Mr. Bob Carter has won this argument for me and padre.
     
  10. Darkoak

    Darkoak Gone for good.

    7,449
    2,003
    0
    Apr 4, 2008
    If the arguement is that there isn't the global consensus Al Gore would lead people to believe there is, then you are right. If you mean to say he proved that global warming is a sham, you are very very wrong. The first words in his first speech would show you how wrong you are, if this is the case.
     
  11. Darkoak

    Darkoak Gone for good.

    7,449
    2,003
    0
    Apr 4, 2008
    It's not the call centre jobs, lol, it's the manufacturing jobs.:lol:
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Could be natural patterns of warming and cooling as well, but that is just to vanilla an explanation..right? There must be a Dr Evil lurking around somewhere..or in this case..it's Bessy the Milk cow....
     
  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    That is true, but as you mentioned, a subject for a different thread.
     
  14. Darkoak

    Darkoak Gone for good.

    7,449
    2,003
    0
    Apr 4, 2008
    Exactly the point I just made it can be a combination of man-made factors, a worldwide cattle industry also being man-made.:up:

    I don't think anyone is arguing that there aren't natural patterns of warming and cooling. That's where this debate gets mixed up, in that those backing man-made climate change automatically disregard other factors, which isn't at all true. Conversely those who are against the idea of man having a hand in massive world-wide climate change choose to totally disregard that part of it. An interesting thing to consider when you debate this topic I think.
     
  15. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

    38,949
    20,033
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    The first statements he made were an affirmation that he comes into the debate without a preconceived notion, and then goes on to absolutely demolish everything that global warming/climate change supporters hold dear.

    Also, manufacturing jobs are just fine: that particular segment is growing as foreign auto companies set up factories here. Also, our exports are rising, which means that clearly we're making SOMETHING that other countries want. But enough of the off-topic stuff. Back to why global warming is a fraud.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2008
  16. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

    20,213
    11,565
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    46.73° N, 117.00° W
    Thanks for the new data. I will consider it after you address the original question that you jumped in to attack.

    Please disprove my original statement that CO2 is a greenhouse gas that can contribute to global warming.

    Please -- let's not try counter the original question with unrelated data. :)
     
  17. #1 fan

    #1 fan Well-Known Member

    2,161
    558
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    miami
    yeah, i'm worried about that too. not that i believe pollutants are as affective as our ozone, at safely absorbing UV radiation, but it's kinda the same greenhouse gas problem. besides CO2, we have molecules in our atmosphere that are keeping the energy on the planet, and thus, raising it's temperature. i think 03, does this, without being a greenhouse gas.
     
  18. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

    38,949
    20,033
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    Research indicates that the pollutants block UV radiation. So what you've got is a neutralizing effect: for every bit of heat trapped in the atmosphere, that same amount of heat is being blocked from the sun. The net effect is zero.

    While reduction emissions is a nice thing to do, it's hardly critical to the continued existence of life on the planet.
     
  19. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

    53,333
    23,006
    0
    Dec 7, 2007
    where did you read this?
     
  20. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

    13,006
    6,368
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    NJ
    nice discussion fellas.
     
  21. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

    38,949
    20,033
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
  22. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

    38,949
    20,033
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    Done.

    Also, compared to some of the people calling themselves scientists, I wear the psuedo-intellectual label proudly. :lol:
     
    Celtkin likes this.
  23. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

    20,213
    11,565
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    46.73° N, 117.00° W
    That attachment doesn't disprove that CO2 is a greenhouse gas or that it can not cause global warming. The document supports a hyphotiesis that carbon dioxide is not the primary cause of global warming. ;)
     
  24. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

    38,949
    20,033
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    Pembroke Pines, FL
    Here's another.

    One important question to ask: if CO2 levels are influential at any level in causing global warming, then how did we get out of the Ice Age? Mammoths didn't drive SUVs, so where did the CO2 levels come from to cause the end of the Ice Age?
     
    Celtkin likes this.
  25. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

    20,213
    11,565
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    46.73° N, 117.00° W
    Plants and microbes sequester CO2 by using the gas for photosynthesis and for other metabolic activities. It was the rise of microbes and plants that lowered CO2 levels in the early atmosphere. The CO2 rise in the early atmosphere was primarily volcanic.

    Also:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ice/chill.html

    Here is a recent hypothesis published in Science:

    http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/14288.html

    The paper you cited agrees that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and by definition, greenhouse gases trap heat.
     
    CrunchTime likes this.
  26. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    I think the main problem with the whole global warming thing is that the data is correlative not causal. Yes, CO2 is a greenhouse gas but there's no proof that it's effect is above negligible. And if I understood the videos in this thread they may even be completely nullified by the cloud reflection. If that's the case it's not even negligible, it's effect on temperature is zero. All of the computer model based predictions regarding temperature that I have seen are wrong. And any temperature changes that have occurred are comfortably within the normal range of historical temperature fluctuations. Basically, I haven't seen anything that shows we're having even a speck of an effect on the temperature and I certainly haven't seen anything that we should be basing policy on.
     
    CrunchTime likes this.
  27. DonShula84

    DonShula84 Moderator Luxury Box

    9,311
    3,464
    0
    Jan 3, 2008
    I was looking for the list of the 31K names and found the paper that the petition is based on. The 31K people signed on to this peer reviewed paper so for those interested here it is, along with a list of all the signers. It seems pretty impossible to verify the credentials of the people who signed since the site just offers a block of names. But the summary of the paper is pretty persuasive.

    http://petitionproject.org/
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2008
    maynard and Celtkin like this.
  28. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

    23,327
    35,934
    113
    Nov 23, 2007

    I agree.We dont know enough to make macro decisions that would effect world economies .There is a counterargument that the world is cooling which is also an effect caused by man.The theory is that ground temperatures have been gradually cooling due to the sun blocking effects of pollution in water borne molecules .

    Add to that that the world is subject to natural cooling and warming cycles its hard to quantify how much we are affecting it.

    However the risks are far to great to ignore so some kind of measure is needed.Hopefully decided upon on better research and data.
     
    Celtkin likes this.
  29. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

    20,213
    11,565
    113
    Nov 22, 2007
    46.73° N, 117.00° W
    Thanks bro. I downloaded and will read the paper. :up:
     
  30. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    But if our data and knowledge is so limited then we can't just push some kind of measure for the sake of doing something. Regardless of our good intentions, incompetence can sometimes cause even more damage.
     

Share This Page