That's besides the point, though. We traded a player the coaching staff obviously didn't feel comfortable starting for a 2nd and 6th selection. That's good value. No, scratch that, it's great value. What we do with those selections, on the other hand, is a totally different story. Even if Ireland blows them, it doesn't mean the trade was bad. It just means he didn't capitalize on it. And that's two different things alltogether.
yeah, you're right----- the coaching staff has absolutely nothing to do with evaluating its own players. I guess you think it's Ireland who sets the depth chart, too, huh? I have no idea what you're trying to say. Why would Ireland consult with a HC we didn't have about which HC we should hire?
I don't think this says anything to how Ireland feels the 2013 draft is. Back to an old saying , has Ireland had an epiphany? or just been told he has ?
That would be my strong preference as well, but only for value. Doubt we get that in a trade. Any WRs we may trade for will either be 4s 5s and 6s who may get cut (value, as the team has no leverage on us) or good players 1s or 2s we'd have to overpay another team for to pry them loose.
thanks. thats what i figured but if it doesnt have the dash with a response is it the other way around? seems like it.
It kind of does matter , if you consistently show you can't draft or acquire talent through free agency maybe you should trade a valuable commodity for a more proven one , and don't regress over multiple years.
That's a lot of ammunition to build around Tanny and still add a quality pass rusher. Receiving a 2nd & 6th for our #3 corner and then perhaps using a 4th on his replacement is a nice net gain IMO. That's a win for us.
After any trade, you have to ask yourself: Did we get better today, did we get better for the future? Obviously, the Dolphins didn't get better today, but did they get better for the future? Well, go ahead and take a look at Jeff Ireland's history of 2nd Round picks. Ummmm, yeah...
Or ... Ross making a decision because he doesn't trust Ireland with assets such as that . Maybe review some decisions , and then pull the plug , hopefully.
but we didn't cut Vontae outright. We got a likely high 2nd & 6th for him. If the 2nd rounder turns out being a talented WR, will you still be complaining that we traded VD just to complain?...... or will you be happy that we addressed a more pressing need than our #3 corner?
For starters, I don't think Vontae was a "valuable commodity". He was premium talent that rarely played up to this talent and at times got beat all over the place. By all accounts, he was also a major problem for two vastly different coaching staffs who tried to get him to respond to pretty desperate measures (benching; demoting) without success. I think we got quite a lot more for Vontae than we should have, and that's a nice trade. Did we get worse today because we lost a nickel corner? Yeah, a little. But even with Jeff Ireland's draft history (and I'm not a big fan, by the way), I'd take the 2nd round selection over a nickel corner every day.
I agree. Fans on this board also overrate picks. There is a balance. Weakening this already weak team (just how badly remains to be seen) for a 2nd round pick just puts more pressure on Tannehill in his rookie year. Vontae at least can create turnovers which in turn helps erase rookie QB mistakes. Fix it by getting him a damn receiver Ireland/Philin! We've seen how Irelands latest 2nd rounder is affecting Tannehill. Vontae is more proven, and has more upside than any previous 2nd rounder picked by Ireland.
i agree with everyone that is defending VD. i also agree that the picks we got for him was a good deal. then again i agree with everyone that is worried about what ireland will do with those picks. if ireland is fired i would feel much better. but i do not like the idea of making this team worse this year with a CHANCE to get better next year.
The Colts tanked their season last year to get Luck............it was fairly obvious too. I'm not going to give the Colts credit for that - they may very well make the playoffs before the Dolphins do, but it's not because of anything they did other than tanking their season last year.
exactly, Deej. The word and evaluation of Davis had to have already made its way to Ireland in order to open up trade talks. It's not like Ireland woke up and said, "You know, I think today's a good day to trade Vontae Davis. Can you pass the pancakes, honey?"
We can't know for sure if he had pancakes, but we do know he would NEVER have said "honey". You are right that he'd never say please though.
With all due respect, perhaps you should check your perspective. After ignoring all the busted or seemingly non-stellar QBs that many fans were screaming for (Kolb, Flynn, Orton, Mallett), we just landed what appears to be a legitimate franchise QB. Now we have possibly 3 picks in the top 40 and 2 more in the top 75 to use to build around him. How is that not "catching a break". I'd call that a pretty damn good break. How does Tannehill, all these draft picks, the talent that's still on the team, and our new coaching staff not invoke hope for the future?
WRT whether this is Philbin's decision or Ireland's, I am not making any long-term judgement on Philbin yet, but I do have to say I haven't been impressed with a few of his decisions in the preseason, if indeed he does have a major say in personell.
It's a bit early to be making that statement. I was all in favor of drafting Tanneyhill, and I think he has shown promise in the preseason, but I can't say that he's a legitimate franchise QB until he's proved it.
Honestly, those who disagree do so less because of the level of pick IMO and more because they don't believe Ireland will use it well. The 2nd and 6th in a great GMs hands may inspire faith of a good player coming our way. These people doubt Ireland will do that and they may be right. I would like to see Ireland identify two premier players in the first round, and use all the picks at his disposal to go up and get them. Add an elite WR and elite DE to this roster and this team wins at least four more games.
I don't think Philbin's influence changes Ireland's draft patterns. I say that b/c I believe Ireland likes drafting the type of players & playmakers who fit Philbin's offense, which would be consistent with Ireland & Ross bringing in Philbin to begin with. Philbin being here makes it seem apparent that the type of players Ireland drafted or scouted for Henning & Sparano weren't the types of players Ireland preferred b/c Philbin/Sherman & Henning couldn't be more polar opposite. Added: Ireland's draft patterns have already changed big time sans Parcells' influence, so I'm not sure what "patterns" you're referring to. ????
Per Omar "guy says: "nap time, hoefully nothing intersting happens while I'm gone." Omar respons "don't go to sleep YET" then writes: "Can't stop, won't stop. I'm doing my Diddy impersonation. Stay Tunes. Sounds like something else might be brewing....though it is coming from Omar.
I would hold the employee accountable for not doing his job despite showing the obvious talent for such. We needed a corner with our 1st pick. Who would you have taken instead. You're acting like Vontae is a complete bust whom we cut outright rather w/o compensation.
So, clearly the plan after the last game of last year's 6-10 season was to have a less talented roster for the first game of this year....
A premium talent at a premium position that is 24 is not a valuable commodity how? By getting a second and a conditional pick contradicts that imo . I think he was worth more but still that was not a no value return. We also have to get off this nickel corner position , first I don't think he is that at all and then a 3rd corner is essentially a starter, this isn't your swing tackle we are talking about. This franchise used a first on a nickel corner. We also all realize that Nolan Carrol ( who I am not criticizing ) is older than Vonte, right? Can we get a similar player at a premium position in a trade for this season for that price? Let's get the list going so we can peruse it and make our team better. This trade helps Indy , and it MAY help Miami , but far from being able to count on that and Ireland's performance has to be taken in to account here on this imo. If you can't draft well , trade for a player with less unknown.
The opposite , I am not acting like Vonte was a bust let alone a complete one . The GM , or boss , is ultimately responsible , the employee also has responsibility but the buck stops at Ireland, and if you don't hold him accountable for this team we totally have opposite views. I hope you are right and I am wrong and that Ireland wins a Super Bowl here with Miami , and soon btw.
A premium position? Name me 10 nickel CBs around the league without consulting a source like nfl.com. The truth of the matter is that if we had just acquired the nickel CB from, well, any other team except Miami, people here would be positively livid about paying a 2nd round selection for a bleeping nickel CB. They'd rather have Nolan Carrol instead. But lo and behold we trade the nickel guy ...
