How the Vontae Davis trade went down

Since neither of us know for sure, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he gave 100% of 100%.
All I can go by for certain, is what I see with my own eyes, and watching him play for 3 years, he was our best DB the entire time he was year.

How was he helping other players maximize their potential? To me, by doing his job to the best of his ability and I think he did that.
A lot of the concerns you express in this post regarding Davis, seem to be speculation to me. JMO.

 

What actions? Being gassed on Hard Knocks in one of the early workouts? Maybe not you, but it seems to me a lot of those who are down on Davis are that way because of some HK film clips.
His actions in the games, from what I could see, is he gave his best effort all the time. In those 3 preseason games he seemed to be on the field more than any other DB, yet seemed to not be gassed at all.

Look, I'm not going to change your mind on Davis, and you're not going to change mine. At this point, I do not like the trade at all, because we have one less very talented young player at a very important position.
We could go back and forth on this until the next draft and it won't change anyone's point of view.

 

Based on what, other than Hard Knocks?

I'd say we have 12 starters on defense because the nickel back plays more than one starting LB.
Again all the accusations of Davis being unprofessional and irresponsible seem to me to be based on Hard Knocks.
For the 2012 season, there is no way I can buy that this trade makes us a better team, other than the pick being traded before the season for a comparable talent at WR to help Tannehill.

 

So, if you want to believe trading our most talented and effective cornerback during the past 3 seasons makes us a better team, there is nothing I'm going to say that's changing your mind.

 

Well don't take it personally (not that you are). You aren't the only person who can't change my mind.

At the root of our disagreement on this, and the disagreement the forum in general is having on this, is a philosophical difference about the importance of physical versus emotional factors on football teams. Both groups are right, in that physical and emotional factors are both important.

The weight people place on those factors, combined with their appraisal of the situation this team is in right now, probably determines their feelings about this trade.

No one can be declared right or wrong at this point. We'll have to wait a while to see the real effects of this trade on this team, and even then we still may not know who was right or wrong.

Really when you get down into the realm of philosophy, there's no clear right or wrong, just healthy (or unhealthy) debate.

 

Sean Smith has been overlooked in this discussion.

• Team has to make a decision this year to offer him a contract extension.
• Miscast playing opposite of Vontae.
• May be better choice to disrupt timing of offense with pressing, steering WR inside, and using length to reach in on slants.
• Camp reports always indicated that Smith was defending Chad Johnson, which may have been a sign that Smith had already passed Vontae as the CB to matched up against the most targeted WR.

Vontae has the potential to be a well-rounded CB; however, he did not seem to make progress with addressing his weaknesses (double-moves, zone coverage lapses, and closing speed). With Smith covering primary target during camp and Marshall brought in to cover the other primary (slot WR) in multi-WR sets, Vontae should have realized that he needed to become a more rounded CB, which I assumed starts with better film room habits.

If the Dolphins defense has changed its coverage schemes as I suspect and if they want more seamless transition between base, nickel, and dime, then their claim about Carroll and Wilson makes sense. They along with Jones have better reaction skills and more likely to play as an unit than a stewing Vontae; upset over less playing time and salary.

 

Plus Sean Smith is showing that he's overcoming his past weaknesses. The way he took on that block, shed it, and made the tackle in the last preseason game is a prime indication.

Vontae Davis on the other hand is still saddled by his weaknesses.

 

Thats my major gripe with this topic. After an airing of Hard Knock alot of people seem to have become a Vontae expert. Now a sudden he hasn't "bought in" and is "detrimental to team development" (LOL).

On the latest episode of Hard Knocks they mention him turing the corner, having his best practice yet and so forth. That doesnt qualify for "buying in"?

 

Regardless of what HK portrayed, he was still below Smith and Marshall on the depth chart. I don't think Philbin demoted him after watching HK.

 

He was demoted by this regime, the last one and in college. Those facts have diddly to do with Hardknocks.

 

For the preseason, and he's always bounced back. He was our best corner on the field.

 

He's not a Dolphin.

Can we move on?

 

I agree.
As the poll indicates, as a board we are essentially split right down the middle. So be it.

I think we should move on to other things like why Ireland is still the GM, will Tannehill be a bust and is Philbin the right man for the job........oh, and what to do with the 1st overall pick in April.

 

He always bounced back to needing to be demoted. Definition of insanity.....

 

Some guys finally buy in, and some guys buy in temporarily and go right back to their old habits. Vontae didn't seem to buy in long term after getting suspended last year, so it wouldn't surprise me if there may have been more going on in camp (perhaps post HK) than what was apparent.

 

Bounced back to being our best corner back. Im done with this topic for now. I don't agree with losing our best corner back for those 2 picks while Carrol and Marshall are unproven in the roles they are about to play for us.

We got "good value" IF Ireland makes it count. I'm not anti-Ireland. I just do not trust him to put that 2nd round pick to good use.

 

You're right, a team should never trade a player that doesn't become elite and always shows up out of shape, simply because we don't have anyone better. We should go into every year with just the 7 picks and be thankful.

 

That is always a possibility and if he does, the next GM will have the opportunity to hire his own HC to work with.

 

True , it is hard to compare to NE.

Problem is Miami has failed compared to teams like say ... Seattle .... that is tough , and that is on we all know who.

Not denying change was/is needed , maybe we needed more of a change as was espoused .... perhaps we would have been a year or two ahead by now. Painful days ahead , but ... BUT ... if this is finally done right and we become a playoff next year then we are on the right track. Nice to know we are talking next year in August.

 

Impressive post. Well Said Sir!!!

 

It is the very fundamental that makes the Patriots consistently one of the best teams in the league. Come on guys, players are taking pay cuts and restructuring their contracts without even being asked for the sake of the "TEAM" in NE. When we get there we can with great pride hang a new flag in our stadium:

SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS
20??

 

and your gettin on people for assuming otherwise...... priceless !

 

Be ready this year for every single catch vs Nolan Carroll to prompt loud complaints that Vontae wouldn't have allowed that catch.

 

CK, did you by any chance hear Ira Winderman on the radio this afternoon? He theorized that by hanging out Vontae to dry on Hard Knocks, they actually hurt his trade value. He thought Ireland lost leverage.

I know Winderman is not a football, guy but he has covered master trader Pat Riley for years, and may have some sense on how deals get done.