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Karlos Dansby, Reggie Bush talk Vontae Davis trade

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by xphinfanx, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    1) when someone loses one's mind it means they are going crazy. so no it's not even close. I am not on here trying to defend my hyperbole. But by all means continue with your emotional response and exaggerations.
    2) it can easily be argue he was premature on cutting vd. You deciding it was time doesn't make it so.
    3) I am also referring to his tie your shoe blah blah. If he does this frequently, yes it means he likes a tight ship. It can also be pushed too far.
     
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  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    That's horse crap and not founded by anything in reality. He cut an old FA for getting arrested after he was talked to about representing the organization professionally. That's it. That's all that's happened.
     
  3. USArmyFinFan

    USArmyFinFan Maximum Effort

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    Was about to point this out.
     
  4. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    It sounds as if Philbin could be losing the trust of the locker room.

    At one point this offseason I was optimistic this season could be reminiscent of 2008. With every passing day it's becoming more and more apparent we're headed for a repeat of 2007.
     
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  5. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    That's fine.

    Like Philbin said, be concerned and express that concern behind closed doors, but publicly do not.

    Philbin doesn't want robots. He wants guys who express themselves in the proper venue.
     
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  6. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm not the one in this conversation being emotional.
    VD wasn't cut he was traded, to a another team that instigated the trade talks.
     
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  7. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    You don't meet for their approval. You meet to inform them and ask their help communicating support from the locker room level.

    You do them the respect of talking to them before they read it on ESPN or twitter.

    And by the way he MAY have met them and done this. We don't know yet, I don't think.
     
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  8. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I didn't. Neither did Joe Philbin. Chad Johnson did.

    Right, because Koa Misi, Reggie Bush, Karlos Dansby, Matt Moore, etc. have all displayed a perfect work ethic, perfect subordination, and are regarded as angels.
     
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  9. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    You coming out firing like such suggests otherwise. Or is that me "losing my mind"

    Yeah you know what I mean.
     
  10. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    I don't even think the leadership council exists yet. I think it's an idea that's been expressed and welcomed, and something they'll revisit when the roster is at 53.
     
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  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I don't think he did, mainly because Philbin wasn't making the trade.
     
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  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Karlos Dansby is right. His job isn't to understand the direction of the team. His job is to play linebacker and make the team better.
     
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  13. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Philbin is showing that he has a propensity to run away from his problems instead of trying to handle them like a confident coach would. Chad Johnson, ok, fine, cut him. Vontae has such a high ceiling and he showed up to camp out of shape. So what? Grounds to trade him - sure, why not, he doesn't fit the mould? He can be an future All-Pro and instead of grooming that All-Pro player, Philbin decides to accept a price tag in conversation with Ireland regarding IND trade talk. Good job. I hope for Ireland/Philbin's sake Nolan Carrol plays twice as good as he did last year.
     
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  14. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    I don't think Philbin is that tyrannical or impulsive. I think he's willing to give guys a shot to correct themselves before they're "gone."
     
  15. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Haven't they under his tenure? And don't take my post to the letter. You get my point. Instead of making your own you refute mine, which is fine.
     
  16. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    My point is that your point was very much exaggerated. The reality is that all Joe Philbin has done was cut Chad Johnson immediately following an arrest, and demote Vontae Davis to the #3 CB. I don't think that is by any means overzealous. To reach the conclusions you did is a big leap IMO.
     
  17. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I feel like Dansby's got two strikes now... And the last year weight thing, and the injury now... It's adding up, and not in the plus column for Karlos.
     
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  18. finsincebirth

    finsincebirth Well-Known Member

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    Vontae's a future all pro player now? Let's revisit that at the end of the season.
     
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  19. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Philbin and Ireland disagreed with this. I think the idea that Philbin "ran away" from a problem is ridiculous. It's quite possible that he didn't believe that Vontae was going to be part of the solution. Here is a player who showed up to camp out of shape two years in a row, and even came to practice hung over once. If you can't trust a player to give their all then that is a problem.
     
  20. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The amount of assumptions and representation of opinion as fact in this thread is reaching silly season status.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
     
  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Two strikes toward what? There isn't really an analogous situation for us to use as reference here.
     
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  22. DrAstroZoom

    DrAstroZoom Canary in a Coal Mine Luxury Box

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    Vontae practiced and played himself out of the starting lineup. Doesn't sound like someone on the path to all-pro status.
     
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  23. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    No, he's showing a propensity to give the problematic player a legitimate shot to correct his problems, which professionals should be fully capable of doing after being talked to by the head coach.

    When the player can't or doesn't correct his problems, it's a sign of being unprofessional, and at that point the player does not fit with Philbin's philosophy of what comprises the cornerstone of a winning team culture -- professionalism.

    Now, contrast this with Jonathan Martin, who I suspect is giving every indication he's on board with the coaches' instruction and is actively integrating that into his game on a daily basis.

    Jonathan Martin has a starting spot as a rookie, protecting the quarterback Philbin's career is riding on, while Vontae Davis and Chad Johnson -- who can't correct their problems despite being told to -- are gone.
     
  24. dont fumble

    dont fumble Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Dear Mr. Dansby, maybe you are one of the reasons this happened?
    Last Year Dansby was out of shape when TC started, therefore being a bad example. Surely enough a young player of the defense -which Dansby is supposed to lead- makes the same mistake this year and loses his starting position. Then the FO gets an offer for this player it couldn't refuse.
    I think players like Zach Thomas had the right to complain, but guys like Dansby do not. Be a role model first!
     
  25. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    The real issue may be that great Xs and Os guys don't always have the ability to connect with a teams players the way a head coach needs to.

    I do think your players have to like you or at least really respect where you're coming from.

    I'm hearing players questioning where this organization is coming from. Philbin man not have the ability to make men like him in a warm, "I love coach and will run through a wall for him" kinda way... And he compounds it by being part of a personnel approach that's making vets also not respect the teams approach.

    No love, and no respect is a problem.

    The only respect, it seems, comes from not wanting to be fired.

    You cannot lead from fear alone. That's dictatorship. And it doesn't last.
     
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  26. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Where did you see me state this as fact?
     
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  27. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    That's what i'm afraid of. I myself haven't (yet) put 100% of my trust in Joe Philbin and his coaching ability. Maybe some of the players feel the same way. Can you blame them? It is, after all, their career at the mercy of him and his staff. Watching talented players walk out the front door (Davis) could be a concern for them.

    I've always been an optimist with regards to my Fins, but I'm done assuming the Miami Dolphins have made the correct calls regarding this clubs future.
     
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  28. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    It's dead clear stringer. Philbin expects you to mesh with his approach. One of the twelve things he stressed to them was being supportive... He even RE-stressed that after CJ was cut saying they had to be supportive when guys left, because what would happen when they had to go to 53 and the players didn't like all of Jeff and Philbins decisions.

    He was very clear. And this came out of Karlos NOT doing that by saying in the press that he was not in agreement with this regimes decision.

    Strike One. (you can't possibly say that counted as a positive towards him!)

    Today he again said he wasn't in step with the decisions up above.

    Strike Two. And a worse one given that Philbin has spelled this out to him and everyone after the last incident.
     
  29. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    If the leaders of this team are going to show up to camp way overweight and throw a hissy-fit over a mediocre player that head butted his wife and another guy that showed up to practice drunk, maybe we should be more worried about the leaders of this team than the coach.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Obviously Philbin knew that Vontae had some issues with work ethic, and he didn't go to the leaders and express his concerns?, directly to the counsel that he ok'd and bonded with, didn't give them a chance to rehab one of their guys, that doesn't sound right to me if true, not after that conversation.
     
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  31. finsincebirth

    finsincebirth Well-Known Member

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    You implied that he has the potential to be a future all pro player. I don't think he has shown that in his three years here.
     
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  32. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    How do we know the players aren't upset with Ireland, not Philbin on this one?

    Or maybe they hate both. Lol.

    Besides, only a few players are saying anything and it's the vets. I want a young guys opinion.
     
  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Saying he's close to being a dictator confirms my take on what's going on.

    I do, but the fact that we were approached by Indy is the key point. It means we weren't actively looking to trade him. The opportunity fell into our laps. That's important to the discussion, no?
     
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  34. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Yes, he expects you to mesh with his approach. But what are the repercussions of a third strike for Dansby? I don't believe they'll be the same as they were for either CJ or VD.
     
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  35. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    All that is correctable, and the risk/reward to me suggests you hang onto the guy and hope he gets it. This preseason he has proven to be at least our second best corner, and by all accounts was trying his best to turn the corner. That is all you can ask of a guy who did fault by coming in out of shape. Hard Knocks kind of confirmed that hew was turning the corner, I even saw him bust his butt on special teams too....he was well on his way to starting over Marshall IMO. Two weeks ago I would've put money that he would regain the starting position based on my thoughts. Guess not.

    What is that saying though? Perception is reality. People see the same types of players being jettisoned in Miami, regardless of the justifiable reasoning or not, Philbin is getting a rap for not keeping players with any inkling of issues.

    What if Ireland drafted Blackmon. He got a DUI. Would you all be so quick to defend him if he was traded for a 2nd round pick? He is troublesome, and by no means acting within the professional conduct that Philbin expects. Just trying to put this into perspective.

    My point is, Philbin wants an ideal roster. Well, this aint an ideal world.
     
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  36. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    There is no way one can argue this fact.
    Chad Johnson couldn't live up to the expectations of Philbin's tight ship, so he was cut.
    Vontae Davis couldn't live up to the expectations of Philbin's tight ship, so he was traded.
    Karlos Dansby is getting perilously close to not living up to the expectations of Philibin's tight ship.
     
  37. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He "can" be and "will" be are completely different. Implications are not facts, and yes, he DOES have the potential to be perennial all pro.
     
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  38. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    I dont think Dansby said anything. If the question he was asked was "What do you think about Vontae and the trade, and what do you think about the direction of this team moving forward?"

    And he responsed: "He's a great player, one of the best corners in the game. I'm not sure about the direction of the team. That's not my place. My place is to play hard and be the leader of men."


    If the question that was asked that prompted his response asked what he thought about the direction of this team (which I think is highly likely hoping to stir up a good response), that adds a lot of context to his answer... which would be considered a harmless and PC answer under that context.
     
  39. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    In a vacuum I don't think Dansby's comments are bad. But when you add them to the first comments it could lead one to believe he is becoming a malcontent.
     
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  40. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    I never said he was close to being a dictator. I stated he needs to learn there is a fine line and not cross it.

    sure, but so is: They more then likely discussed it at some point and they both decided getting less then a one was ok, as they were 1) not going to get a one 2) good enough instead of having vd on the team.
     

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