Ireland: We're not giving up

He should be able to, unless he's forced to follow recipes that are ****.

 

Awful thinking though Colmax, we trade a #1 wr, then do not replace him, then say "still looking"

 

I agree.
Trading Marshall was either terrible hindsight or terrible evaluation of the WR's we had.

 

Season hasn't even started guys.

[video=youtube;QdgCajndgNw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdgCajndgNw[/video]

 

Yet...it's already over.

 

You said it. It doesn't take a football genius to see that this team is bereft of talent at most positions.

 

And the lack of depth at pretty much every position is embarrassing.
And that falls on Ireland.

 

The Dolphins refuse to admit that they are rebuilding. This is being done for two main reasons. The first one is that Ross realizes that the majority of the fan base would flip out if they actually admitted they are rebuilding.The Dolphins were suppose to be starting the rebuilding process five years ago , when Parcells, Ireland, and Sparano were hired. To admit that they are once again in a complete rebuilding mode would cause many more fans to question why Ross retained Ireland, especially when the first rebuilding job was a failure.

The second, and main reason though that Ross and Ireland refuse to admit that the Dolphins are rebuilding is because the stadium already has thousands of empty seats during home games. Admitting verbally that this team isn't good enough and needs to be rebuilt would only increase the number of empty seats in the stadium.

It really doesn't matter what Ireland or Ross is willing to admit. Most Dolphin fans fully understand that the Dolphins are in fact in a rebuilding mode and that this team will be lucky to win five games this year. By refusing to admit that they are rebuilding, both Ireland and Ross are going to have a much harder time explaining to season ticket holders why this team was so bad, when the season is over.

 

Ireland, and pretty much every GM we've had for sometime now, is reactive. The guy has no vision, this whole thing is a disaster.

 

The reason the team is refusing to admit the rebuild is because Ireland sold Ross a bill of goods when Sparano was fired that that the talent to win was here. It just needed better coaching.
To admit to a rebuild is to admit Ireland lied to Ross to save his job.

 

I don't think the team is bereft of talent at all. I think there is quite a bit of talent it just hasn't always translated to production and some of it is young. But the talent is there. Whether it becomes production will depend on a number of factors, with coaching and leadership primary among them. Here's how I see the likely/possible starting lineup from a "talent" standpoint:


QB -- Tannehill (Top 10 pick after only 2 years as a starter). Good size, strong arm, very good athlete for a QB, smart, etc.

RB -- Bush (former No. 2 overall pick). Elite speed and moves. One of the best college RBs of all time. Strong for his size. 1100+ yards and 5.0 average last year.

FB -- JLane (token starter -- may not use true FB that much). Great size, productive runner for FB in college, OK hands.

TE -- Fasano (former 2nd round pick). Solid measurables, one of better blocking TEs in the NFL, has been a productive player for several years.

WR -- Bess. Not great measurables, but knows how to get open. Has averaged 65 receptions per season over 4 year career.

WR -- Naanee. 6-2, 225. Ran a 4.4 at the combine with a 40 inch vertical jump and 10 ft broad jump.

T -- Long (No. 1 overall pick). 4 Pro Bowls in 4 years. Protoypical size with great strength and good athleticism.

G -- Incognito (former 3rd round pick). Ran a 4.84 40 at combine at 305 lbs. Much bigger now.

C -- Pouncey (former No. 15 overall pick). Prototypical size and athleticism for a C. Pro Bowl alternate as a rookie.

G -- Jerry (former 3rd round pick). Ran 5.15 at 328 at combine. Much bigger now, but Coach Turner has said on Hard Knocks has Pro Bowl talent.

T -- Martin (early 2nd round pick). Good size and good athlete. Could have easily been a first rounder.


DE -- Wake. Freakish athlete and top 5 pass rusher in NFL.

DT -- Soliai (former 4th round pick) Huge guy with great athleticism for his size. very solid run stuffer.

DT -- Starks. (former 3rd round pick). Good size and athleticiam and great strength. Former Pro Bowler. Been solid player for several years.

DE -- Odrick (former 1st rounder). Good size and athleticism. Played well as a first year starter last year.

LB -- Misi (former 2nd round pick). Decent athlete. Plays run well. Soldi player overall.

LB -- Dansby (former 1st pick of 2nd round). Prototype size and speed. Borderline Pro Bowl level player.

LB -- Burnett (former 2nd rounc pick). Great athlete. Can blitz and cover.

CB -- SSmith (former 2nd round pick). Elite size and good speed and athleticism. Plenty of talent.

CB -- Marshall (former 2nd round pick). solid size, speed and athleticism. Been solid player.

S -- RJones. Prototype size and speed. Very good athlete.

S -- CClemons -- Very good size and elite speed. Good athlete.


Yeah, we are light in talent at WR, but that seems to be by the choice of this coaching staff. We have a bunch of unproven guys, but we have a few big, fast guys (Naanee, Wallace and Hogan), a few super fast guys (Gates and MMoore), a great size guy (Fuller) and a few established vets (Bess, Hartline and Naanee), etc. There are question marks at S but guys like Jones, Clemons and Wilson have talent, they just need to realize their potential. Same for the OL, with Martin and Jerry, etc. And of course at QB, where Tannehill has plenty of talent. At RB we has=ve significant backup talent in DThomas and LMiller. Egnew has loads of talent and potential. Clay has shown the ability to be a playmaker in this league. Etc.

 

But who is our nickel corner?

 

Holy **** did you try to convince people using Legadu Naanee's prowess at WR?

I can find you a gas station attendant with this measurables who can't produce on Sundays too. In fact, Wallace is outperforming LN and Wallace may get cut.

 

And having paid a lot ($ or draft position) to get a guy who is playing way under that value is not an argument for our talent. It's an argument for bad GMing and/or coaching.

Blah.

I'm MORE down on our team having read that list.

Sorry, I know that wasn't your intention.

Blech. I have to rinse out my mouth.
(cue the BJ jokes)

 

hey I didn't know Jeff Ireland posts here.

 

As I said, we are weak at WR, but that seems to be the coaching staff's preference, at least in the sense that they don't want the proverbial no. 1 receiver. We easily could have kept Marshall on the roster but it is clear the coaching staff didn't want him. If we had him, we wouldn't be wringing our hands over the WR position. And the issue here is talent. Naanee has some. Guys that are 6-2, 225 with 4.4 speed and 40" vertical jumps are not that common. And I highly doubt you can find a gas station attendant with his measurables. Has he put it all together yet? No. Will he? I'm not real optimistic about that, but we'll see. The coaching staff seems to like him.

 

I agree. Only Ireland, Fineas, and a few others on this forum can honestly look at that this list and actually think that the Dolphins are a talented team. It seems Fineas is more concerned with the position these players were drafted and how fast they run. Instead of whether or not they can actually play effectively at the NFL level. The 20-28 record the majority of these players have posted over the last three years, clearly shows that they are NOT very talented, no matter where they were drafted or how fast they run.

 

So which of those guys are not talented? Jake Long, Cam Wake, Reggie Bush, Pouncey, Dansby, SSmith, etc? Of the guys on that list the only ones who have not yet played effectively at the NFL level are Tannehill (rookie), Martin (rookie), Jerry, Lane (rookie), RJones and CClemons. It is a make or break year for Jerry, but again, his OL coach seems quite convinced that he has Pro Bowl talent. I'm sure you disagree because you undoubtedly have watched him practice more and have greater knowledge of the intricacies of offensive line play. RJones and Clemons have not been great, but they haven't been total bad and they are both young and physically talented. Naanee hasn't been a great player, but he has been a contributing NFL player and also has plenty of physical ability.

I guess if you believe that Tony Sparano and his coaching staff got the most out of all these guys than it would be fair for you to conclude that they are not talented (although even then, the QB issues, poor playcalling, poor game management, etc. explain a lot fo that 20-28 record). But the team's record doesn't necessarily reflect its talent level. If it did we wouldn't see 4-6 teams each year improve by 4+ games with no major talent changes, not would we see another 4-6 teams loss 4+ more games from year to year. If you don't think the previous staff contributed to any fo those 28 losses and got the most out of all of those players, then I assume you are lamenting the fact that Sparano and Co. aren't here anymore. Is that the case?

 

You call it negative. I call it just facing the reality of the situation in regards to this Dolphin team. I would love to be able to come on this forum and write about all the positives that I see happening with this organization. Unfortunately I just don't see too many positives at this time.

 

I have stated all along that I didn't think Sparano was a good NFL HC and I was glad to see him fired. I just think that he took too much of the blame, while Ireland was the real problem because he just isn't an effective GM. I never stated that the Dolphins don't have SOME talented players on the roster. Every team in the NFL, no matter how bad they may be, have a small group of talented players. The problem is that the quality teams in the NFL have many more talented players then the bottom tier teams in the NFL.

These quality teams also have GM's who know how to bring in and draft players who make an impact at the NFL level.

I understand that you think Ireland has done a good job and that the Dolphins have a lot of talent on the roster. You certainly have the right to your opinion. I just don't agree with you and in a few weeks the regular season will begin. Seventeen weeks later, we will both be able to see who's opinion was correct.

I hope you are right and I am wrong, but I just don't see in this team what you see, at this time.

 

You didn't answer his question...which of those guys is not talented?

 

The full quote was "We are not giving up our GM position."

 

What bothers me the most is how people are saying that if we use the VD trade to obtain a WR then it was wirth it when we had a good WR in BM and traded him away earlier this year. I'm not a BM groupie and maybe his mental make up was a problem but you do not cut off your nose to spite your face. This off-season seems like it has been a step backwards for us and I am reminded of the Cam Cameron philosphy of failing forward when I hear some of the defenses for it being presented. Im excited about RT but thats about it and frankl;y Im not buying his jeresy until I see how this season goes. This team gets none of my money until they have earned it by putting a decent product on the field.

 

But again, the team's final record will not just reflect the talent level -- it will reflect the quality of the coaching, decisions as to who should or shouldn't play, luck, etc.

Of our projected starters, who lacks talent? Not who isn't a proven NFL player or who hasn't reached their potential, but who doesn't have the physical or mental tools necessary to be a good player? This is still a pretty damn young team. There are guys the coaches are going to have to do their job with and teach, motivate, etc. But the basic tools are there. Sure it could be better, but that's true of every team.

 

I more or less agree. Aside from the fact that I won't sugarcoat the WR position....the measurables are nice on some of them but IMO there is so much to being a WR that you just can't quantify with those numbers. Our guys minus Bess and to an extent Hartline certainly lack those intangibles it seems. Though there are some young guys who I think COULD develop nicely such as Fuller and Gates.

 

The Marshall & Vontae trades didn't happen simultaneously so cutting off your hand to spite your face doesn't apply. They were independent instances.