Merged: Vontae Davis wants to phone home on 'Hard Knocks'

Exactly. That was my next thing to post. Vontae was killed in Episode 1, but it was clear he wasn't in the doghouse like we were lead to believe.
Also, for me it's pretty clear that Philbin has a ton of trust in his coaches, example with Kacy Rodgers. He let's those guys set on who should be playing and gives them full autonomy. He really has very little say on who plays, who doesn't, etc. Not by his choice, but his decision to trust those coaches. I remember him asking Zac Taylor all of what 29-30 years old, who he thinks should start.

 

Ok. Stick to what you thought. I don't care anymore.

 

Don't stumble into the editing trap, man. HBO made it look like it was Taylor's call but I'm having a very hard time believing that it actually was. It probably just made for the best sound bite and served as the perfect transition to the next bit. We don't even know when this conversion actually took place; might have been days before they settled on the decision. I remember this one bit when Philbin said that the rumors about Chad Johnson in New England were that he didn't get the playbook - and then HBO cut out mid-sentence and made it seem as if Philbin thought the same, when he clearly had more to say we never heard.

 

Lack of response is still technically a response, i.e, stunned.

 

Omar fell into that trap - BIG TIME. Actually said the position coaches have more say in personnel than Ireland lol

 

So you're getting all teary eyed when CK writes /end conversation because that's just so undeserving but you find it perfectly acceptable to end one yourself with "I don't care anymore". In CK's words: interesting

 

Yeah. I wasn't aware that there was a running theory that it was done in order to send a message. I thought they just liked Richard Marshall more.

 

Because Jeff Ireland assumed that Vontae had heard the rumors. I think he assumed incorrectly. I think a lot of players intentionally insulate themselves from that kind of rumor mongering as a self-preservation mechanism.

 

Because you're not making any points, you basically said I was making your argument for you. Which I'm not, but how can I respond tot hat other than saying, no I'm not. To which you'd reply, yes you are. its stupid. Make an argument or move on.

 

That would be correct. I know of quite a lot of professional soccer players who make it a point to never read the sports section. Heck, I have quite a lot of collegues in the journalism branch who make it a point to never read the comments under the articles they publish because that way, madness lies.

 

You raised three points in your argument. You assume I decided that your 1st point was the reason I came to a conclusion that you were being disingenuous. Bad assumption. It was the 2nd and especially 3rd points you raised that saw me concluding that you're arguing for the sake of argument, and that there is absolutely no point in continuing the debate any further. As Vendigo described, it's like trying to describe the color red to someone who is color blind.

 

My argument was that what you thought was "being blindsided" wasn't being blindsided at all - it was a man who just realized (or thought he did) that his life was over. To even compare that to the Davis situation alludes to the fact that you're having a pretty weird idea of what being blindsided actually looks like, which was the point of the whole discussion. We're talking about a player being shocked by the news that he gets traded, and you show a guy that thinks he just got 7 years in jail as an example of what Vontae would have looked like if he was schocked. My reply was: The guy isn't shocked, he's utterly devasted to an almost comical degree.

 

It's possible there was some editing magic involved, or some missed context, but at the same time it looked pretty clear. Philbin asked Zac Taylor are we close to resolving the quarterback situation and Zac said he's going with Tannehill. Given the fact that Joe Philbin has emphatically stated multiple times that he considers his position coaches to be Head Coaches of their individual positions, and he stays out of their way as much as he can...I think it's entirely possible there wasn't any editing magic at play here.

 

There was nothing crazy about the other two points either. Simple fact of the matter is I was once again trying to have a rational discussion with you and you got attitude. That makes it my fault because I should know better by now.

 

And if you write for Bleacher Report, avoid reading comments under your articles like you'd avoid the plague.

 

I ended the argument precisely to avoid the same outcome. I know where "rational" discussions always end up, with you. You tend to interpret the tone and context of my posts with the same accuracy that you showed in reading the emotion on pictures of human faces.

 

No the point was to show that when someone gets devastating news their expressions generally change. I wasn't implying Vontae should have fell tot he floor.

You guys are trying to get me to believe its way more normal for someone to get life changing news and sit there without changing expressions than to actually have a noticeable reaction. People don't change reaction when the news isn't a surprise. Or is that just too crazy for words?

 

It's kinda ironic, though. The more people assume they are making themselves heard online, the more they are getting ignored. It used to be that user (or reader) feedback was a pretty good way to gauge how good you did your job. Nowadays, user feedback is something you actively have to avoid in order to be able to do your job to begin with

 

lol. "/conversation" is not attitudinal? Sigh.

 

No, we're saying that there was a noticable reaction and expression that you just totally fail to read. It's like you showed us two rectangles, one being green and the other one red, and said they were completely identical. We're saying that one is red. You're saying, but they are the same shape!

 

No, I'm saying hsi reaction never changed from before he was told to after to him asking what he was traded for.

 

Did you notice how Philbin asked both quarterbacks if they talked to Zac and Coach Sherman before he sat down with them? Both said yes, yet we didn't hear anything about Sherman being involved in the decision. Even if Philbin trusts his position coaches implicitly, I'm having a hard time believing that an experienced OC like Sherman wouldn't have at least a little say in the matter.

 

The reaction to "/conversation"

 

I read some of the BP comments at times, and IMO, they are not even remotely close to as bad as the comments under the articles in the Herald. PBP, and S-S.

 

Kinda *******ish for the media to put this incident in the spotlight. It was arguably the most earnest reply he could muster at the time. I wouldnt wanna keep talking to the dude who didnt want me in the building another minute. Any other "professional" would have regurgitated the same old dishonest corporate "thank you for..."

 

Does that change anything though? Just because the decision probably needed Sherman's official stamp of approval (he is the official QB Coach after all) doesn't (to me) change that Joe Philbin asked Zac Taylor, not Mike Sherman, if they are any closer to a resolution to the QB question.

 

He wouldn't have told him to stay positive, etc. if he didn't at all. The NFL is a tough business and I feel bad that Vontae was traded... but in the end it's a business and how Ireland handled it with sympathy showed he does care.

 

My point is that we quite simply don't know if that's how it actually went down. Might be he asked Mike Sherman later (or earlier) in the conversation and the director decided that one statement was plenty to get the point across. I think we can safely assume that Philbin does indeed put a lot of trust in his coaches, but to infere that Zac Taylor made the call on the starting QB as suggested by HBO ... there's bound to be a lot of discussions on the topic that we haven't seen. I brought Sherman up because he was clearly involved in the process, yet by how much the show chose not to tell. Personally, I found it way more interesting that Philbin had Taylor deliver the news to both QBs. That was a pretty shrewd way of saying, the dude may only be a couple of years older than you guys, and pretty easy going too, but he's part of calling the shots here.

 

fwiw ... VD to me looked like the rug had just been pulled out from under him. He looked hurt, upset, & confused. I don't claim to know how he really felt or what was going through his mind ... just my opinion after watching the scenario play out

 

Why he is going to a better team......

 

I'm still wondering why Irish would only tell him that they traded him for "a couple of picks". Either tell him nothing or tell him a 2nd and a conditional. Of course, I'm not really sure on what Ireland was allowed to tell him either. Maybe it's something that can't be disclosed until Vontae gets to Indy and has a physical. But still, if that's the case, I think it's better to say "I can't tell you at this time" rather than make Vontae wonder if he got traded for a 6th and a 7th.

 

That scene reminded of the story Metallica tells about how they fired Dave Mustaine to bring in Kirk Hammett.

 

You have to keep in mind that he was probably already somewhat in shock when he sat down. Players know getting called in to see the GM usually only means one of two things.

 

I think you would do a fine job.

 

The thing about Vontae's response to Ireland ("Can I call my grandma?") is that you could choose a hundred different guys at random and give them the same experience Vontae had, in terms of not knowing what was coming, being 24 years old, and every other variable you can imagine that was involved in the situation, and I would venture to say that none of them would respond the same way.

You would need to go get far more than a hundred other guys at random to find just one who would respond similarly, or IMO even dissimilarly but with the same level of immaturity.

What that means is that the situation wasn't driving the bus on his response there. His own self was.

 

We can disagree on that but it doesn't change the fact that he looked highly surprised and like he wasn't handling it very well.

 

To his credit so far, he has said nothing bad about the Dolphins, the past is the past he said.

 

The feeling of surprise and the experience of the situation as difficult wouldn't be rare at all in that kind of situation. What's extremely rare is the level of immaturity of the behavior he exhibited in response to it all.

Similarly, feeling angry at your neighbor for playing his music too loud isn't rare at all. What's rare (and obviously a problem) is when you feel angry and you go over there and blow his head off for it.

99 out of a hundred guys might feel angry at the neighbor. One in a million would go blow his head off.