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So who would you like to see replace Jeff Ireland next year?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by LBsFinest, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I get why your pissed off, it's been bad, but each person that takes the job has to be evaluated fairly..

    As far as Ireland calling the shots the past five, we've rehashed that enough, but logic, power and inexperience tells me a lot.
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    JW, you've been right more than wrong thus far...just gotta learn to take a joke.
     
  3. Colmax

    Colmax Well-Known Member

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    I can dig that. And I am not for (or against) keeping Ireland. I think it should play out as it plays out.

    I think that he tried to assemble a team that fit with Parcells' liking (which most probably agree Parcells had Ireland under his thumb), with Parcells essentially calling the last shot. As I tried to intimate earlier, I think Ireland was GM of the Dolphins in title only under Parcells and Co. I am not so sure that some of the players on this team were his gut (or first) choice, namely, Jake Long. Hell, maybe Long was his choice for all I know, but choosing a LT with no real QB on board (this was before Pennington was available) with the #1 overall is a "safe" move, and really, not the logical choice. I mean, it wasn't like Matt Ryan was JaMarcus Russell. But I digress.

    I am on the same page with you in that THIS YEAR may be his deciding year. I mean, the guy is certainly working his tail off. Jeffy traded Vontae, and is now playing catchup with these DBs coming in for workouts. Ballsy move. I even think he is unsure about his occupation next year if he doesn't somehow pull a wizard out of his *** this year.
     
  4. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Dang, after reading through this thread it looks like all the witty responses & retorts have already been taken. :jt0323:
     
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  5. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Where you been boy? You were strangely absent all during cutdown day. :tantrum:















    :wink2:
     
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  6. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Yeah, well I spent $150,001 and I don't feel any more entitled to whine about it. :shifty:


    Just curious, but did you ever play the sport?
     
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  7. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    [​IMG]
     
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  8. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Ireland actually does have an excuse b/c it's difficult to assemble a successful team around an original design that's inherently flawed. By design I mean coaching staff & scheme.
    Sparano--- Enough said. Jets are already questioning him as their OC, IIRC.
    Henning--- Dinosaur of an OC.

    (Neither of whom were Ireland's choices​, and both were involved in scouting etc IIRC)

    So, does it suck that we've been losing lately? Absolutely. However, how many years do you think we were set back (and will continue to be so) because of 3 years of Henning, 4 years of Sparano, and the players brought in to fit them? Does anyone realistically believe it's less than a 2 year recovery process? I mean, if they say one bad 1st round pick can set you back a year, how far are you set back with an offense built around Sparano & Henning?

    On the other hand, contrary to Henning's offense, Mike Nolan's D wasn't inherently flawed; hence we didn't see a problem with Ireland & BP building up that side of the team, did we?

    To be fair, he's never had a first full go around. Parcells had the first one, and Ireland doesn't look like Parcells 2.0 IMHO.
    Besides, respectfully, what makes you think we'll repeat the same mistakes when most of what we're doing has changed now that Parcells has stepped down and Ireland has had one year and one offseason to do it his way?
    There's a different type of HC.
    Change in offensive scheme & philosophy.
    An offense & organization essentially built around the QB rather than treating the QB position as a liability (as seen during Sparano-Henning years).
    A change in style of drafting and the types of players we go after.
    A change in the way the organization interacts with the media & fans.

    Just as I don't expect a talented rookie QB to enter the league as an All Pro, I don't expect the same of a rookie GM, and IMO, anyone who feels there isn't a learning curve involved is being impractical. I honestly don't care what mistakes were made from '08-'10 while he was being groomed. That's in the past. It's done. I only care about whether or not Ireland learned from it and how he's setting us up for 2012 and beyond. Is he developing into the type of GM that Parcells and others thought possible or is he not?

    Personally, I'm witholding all judgement until this season plays out.
     
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  9. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with those that have said you have to see how the team does this year. I do like the fact Ireland's stockpiled 11 total picks for next year's draft at this point. I think there's been some good foresight with respect to the Vontae Davis trade by signing Richard Marshall, and perhaps moves like drafting Lamar Miller (to eventually replace Reggie Bush). But, I think the fact that he's been "scrambling" to find talent this late is a bad sign for him. But, you still have to see what this team does. It's finally 100% "his" team.

    As for potential replacements:

    Eric DeCosta
    Tom Gamble
    Omar Khan
    Russ Ball

    That'd be my 4 as it stands today.
     
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  10. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    For the people saying Ireland should keep his job just because he drafted Tannehill what would you say if Russel Wilson ends up having an amazing rookie season and maybe Tannehill ends up with an avg rookie season.
     
  11. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    "Good job Russel Wilson"
     
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  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No one said he stays because he drafted Tanny. They were saying he stays if Tanny turns out to be the real deal regardless of team record.
     
  13. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Some people did say that.
     
  14. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Decosta, Marc Ross or Omar Khan. Any of them would suffice. Ireland should have been sacked 2-3 years ago but the upcoming 4-12 season should get it done.

    IMO even if Tannehill does pan out, his style of drafting guys with low ceilings but high floors just lands you a bunch of mediocre players which is essentially what we have landed under his tutelage. For the most part, I dont mind his trades. But I dont think the guy is a winner who has "it"
     
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  15. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    When you look at a guy who has been drafting for five years now and this is the team he has I don't know how you can say he's done a good job. I agree, that he doesn't seem to find players that you feel could become top players in the league. It boggles my mind how there can be so many weaknesses and question marks after five years. How long is a fair shake? A decade? This isn't baseball where you go after 18 year olds and then 4 to 5 years later they start contributing to your team. If we had a new GM this season and he traded Vontae Davis I'd feel a lot better about it. I have little faith that Ireland will turn those picks into a difference maker for this team.

    As for the replacement, at this point it's starting to become 'almost anybody else'.
     
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  16. Loyal Fin

    Loyal Fin Business as usual

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    oh yea? the vast majority? Why's that? cause they don't post on message boards? DJ, no offense, but your posts don't exactly read like Pop Warner's notes. You're a great fan but I think you're (not you personally, but what i know about you on this website) in way over your head when it comes to evaluating football. right or wrong, these callers usually sound much more knowledgeable than your football related posts, just saying.
     
  17. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    To be fair, anyone who holds the opposite opinion of the person expressing it will believe that said person is clueless. At least DJ puts himself out there on all matters and doesn't just chime in with the usual "IRELAND SUCKS" or "OUR WR ARE BALLZ" type of comments we see so much here.
     
  18. Loyal Fin

    Loyal Fin Business as usual

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    I love DJ, he's the ultimate fan. But he always attacks south florida fans like we're clueless and generalizes about the local fanbase. it's aggravating because i personally know hundreds of south florida fans that would be great message board posters, and would fit right in.

    DJ always blames the stadium, the noise-level, the fans, the media...he was all about "respecting the code" when parcell's was new.

    sometimes I wish this team would move relocate so national fans would have another city (and it's population) to blame.

    I'm sorry, i'm grumpy. i'm going to go sulk.
     
  19. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    I think this is what it really comes down to. a good GM could do some real damage with 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. I dont trust Ireland to find impact players, period. He hasn't done it so far. the countless mid round misses over the years are really frustrating. We have a great opportunity to speed up this rebuilding process, really improve the talent around Tannehill in next years draft, lets not **** up this chance by letting Ireland make the picks.
     
  20. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Can we find a player that exploded relative to his draft position? Where is the google stock? Where is the unexpected great return? When people defend Ireland and say other teams don't draft any better ( and this isn't that we should be ok not being a top quarter team ) where are the elite returns for the investment?

    If we trust him again , we think somehow this is changing? That is an AWFUL lot of trust , considering how poorly we have played and how much we have endured and the premium assets he will have at his disposal. A lot of people wanted Sparano to come back , a lot knew he was dead coach walking and that it was a mistake.
     
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  21. HULKFish

    HULKFish Artist and Scribe

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    I support Ireland... oh and this team. I'm also excited about this season, whether that's a popular notion or not. If this team stays healthy, sky is the limit!

    GO DOLPHINS!
     
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  22. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    why is everybody relegated to robing from the packers?

     
  23. Dolphin1184

    Dolphin1184 Member

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  24. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    I would say that would have to be judged in the context of a whole host of other factors, most of which I suspect would point toward Ireland's keeping his job.
     
  25. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Yes I did play many sports, including football growing up. I played baseball, and football in high school. I have never claimed to be college or NFL player. The only sport I actively participate in now that I am over 60 is golf, and I am am still a single digit handicap at this time.

    I grew up loving to play sports and I remained active by playing on flag football teams and in over 40 basketball tournaments and softball leagues until I was in my early 50's. I eventually decided to dedicate my sporting hours to playing golf as I grew older, but I still enjoy watching all types of sports.

    Sorry if you think I whine too much about the state of the Dolphins today. I just expect more from this organization then you obviously do and after a decade of very mediocre play on the field, I have just decided that I am fed up with what I have seen from this organization. If you are happy with mediocre, fine. I'm just not happy with it.

    I basically quit playing other sports in my 50's because I realized that I was no longer able to perform at a level which I felt was adequate for these sports. I could still play and participate in them, but I expected more from myself and since I couldn't play at the level I expected, I decided to quit playing them.

    I have continued to play at a high level in my golf game, therefore I still enjoy the competition on the golf course. I am sure if I ever lose the ability to play the game of golf at a level I feel is competitive, I will probably no longer have the desire to continue to play the game.

    I have always had certain standards I require of myself when involved in competitive sports. I guess my frustration with the Dolphins is that I just don't see this team meeting the standards I expect from an organization I have followed and been a fan of since 1966. Perhaps you think I am being too harsh on them, but I am who I am, and at my age, I am not going to change.
     
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  26. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    It's all good and fine to be chiming in about who should be the new GM next year, but almost all (if not actually all) of the names thrown out in this thread are guys who have never been GMs. The truth is that none of us have any clue how any of those guys would do as GM. It's purely a matter of names of guys who are scouts or young personnel guys that supposedly have good reputations. But being a good GN is more about decision making than scouting itself (as much of the scouting is or will be done by others) and there is no track record of any kind of decision-making by any of these "candidates." It's easy to I (or some candidate) liked this player or that player, but that means little. What matters is if you make the decision to pick that player among a group of other players who you also like.

    The absence of experienced GMs in this thread is notable also because once someone has an actual drafting and FA track record one is confronted with the truth that there will be more misses than hits. Just like Ireland, there will be 2nd round (and even 1st round busts), 3rd rounders that get cut in their first camp, etc. It's only the guys with no track record that seem like the shiny choice.
     
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  27. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    In other words, "many of you are living in a fantasy world."

    ;)
     
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  28. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Exactly. I personally find it ironic that the OP despises our first time GM and seemingly blames him for all our woes during his GM developmental years yet advocates hiring ANOTHER rookie GM only to watch him learn on the job, too. :headscratch:
     
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  29. Laces Out

    Laces Out Well-Known Member

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    I'd say I told you so to everyone who laughed at me for saying Wilson was the guy to get and Tannehill sucks.
     
  30. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    And you'd be wrong, because Tannehill doesn't suck.
     
  31. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I don't know that the majority of callers on Sirius are like that. You could make a case for it being in the 40 to 55% range :wink2: There are some great regular callers. And no, I'm not one of them... I'm better with my fingers than with my mouth... :shifty:
     
  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    From '08-'10 I definitely share your sentiments of frustration regarding low ceiling-high floor (low floor) draft picks, but when I look at the last 2 drafts I don't see it. DT, Gates, Clay, and Wilson weren't polished products; as such I thought they represented more of the high-ceiling pick mold. Pouncey IMO was a high ceiling-high floor pick b/c you know you're likely getting a ProBowler.... and I thought the signing of Bush was more of a high ceiling type move, which it proved to be b/c he pushed his ceiling higher than many expected in 2011.

    In 2012, IMHO, there's another group of varying degrees of unpolished, upside players in Tannehill, Egnew, Vernon, Miller, Kaddu, and Matthews. Martin was the only non-exciting pick, but when is it that linemen ever are, am I right?... but teams still have to draft them, no, and we desperately needed one. I actually thought Miami's draft represented one of the riskier, high ceiling-low floor drafts of the entire league TBH.
     
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  33. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    I'm not Ireland's biggest fan by any means but I'm willing to let it play out. If we suffer through a 3-13 disaster then Steve Ross (the only guy that really has anything meaningful to say in this debate) will make that call. I think Ross is all in with Ireland though so we'd better HOPE he finds success.
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Martin, Egnew, Vernon, and Miller are on watch, none of them gave us much this preseason..end of the year we should know what to do with Ireland..we will have seen last years class for two years as well.
     
  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, it's not up for me to tell you that I make more sense or am more accurate than the majority of Miami dolphin fans that call radio shows in this market..

    I find the majority to regurgitate the vomit that the national media already puked up, so if you side with them, it tells me a lot.

    Btw, when it comes to player evaluation, I'll put my record up against anyone.
     
  36. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not a big Jeff Ireland fan by any means. Personally, I think Stephen Ross should have cleaned house completely when he fired Sparano. That said, I actually like some of the moves Ireland has made since the 2011 season ended. Obviously, he didn't have much cap space to work with in free agency, and it shows. I didn't like Vernon or Egnew as picks, but they've both made the roster and have chance to contribute. I like that he's stockpiled picks, though I think I'd rather him take more of an Ozzie Newsome approach and let the draft come to him. Actually use all 11 of those picks on players, rather than moving up for the likes of Shawn Murphy, Daniel Thomas, Lamar Miller, etc. I think some of his grading with the "makeup" of players is flawed - Phillip Merling and Vontae Davis for example.

    Next year seems like it could be huge in terms of the Miami Dolphins going forward. Lots of cap space, lots of draft picks. Given Ireland's track record since he's been here, I'm just not sure I'd have the confidence in him to have a franchise-changing offseason (as next year is shaping up to be compared to past years in Miami). Too many questions marks about too many players drafted from 2008-2010 for me. Too many players he's put high picks into that haven't panned out. Just too many question marks in general, that's my main gripe with Ireland. Sure, there are some very nice players and nice finds he's had...but how much do those outweigh his decisions that haven't panned out? In my opinion, not by much. I'd want a better return on my investments (draft picks, free agent dollars, trades), if I'm Stephen Ross.
     
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  37. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    i'm pretty even with both.....lalalalalala
     
  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I've admitted my mistake in Parcells, openly said I was wrong and appoligized..I trusted the guy completely because I had the outmost respect for him, for some reason I wasn't able to see some of the things that people warned me about..I forgot that in order to do a good job in that position, you must really be committed to the long run and you must care about the team your working for..my bad.

    I still believe this culture and that stadium is party responsible for our demises..I have praised this years season ticket holders as the greatest in the NFL...unfortunately, their not enough to make a difference in a sh&$hole like that..
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You might get your wish one day..there is a lot of cancer surrounding this culture...
     
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  40. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    To bring it back to the real world, we could look at the draft records of the teams these guys come from. If we are going to assume they played some role in those teams' good decisions, we should probably also assume they played a similar role in their bad decisions.

    Russ Ball and John Dorsey (Packers)

    Derek Sherrod (OT, 2011) -- 1st round pick who didn't start a game and played in only 5.
    Randall Cobb (WR, 2011) -- 2nd round pick who didn't start a game and caught only 25 passes.
    Alex Green (RB, 2011) -- 3rd round pick who rushed for 11 yards on a team looking for a running game.
    Mike Neal (DE, 2010) -- 2nd round pick with 5 tackles and 1 sack in 2 seasons.
    Brian Brohm (QB, 2008) -- 2nd round pick cut in camp.


    Omar Khan (Steelers)

    Cameron Heyward (DE, 2011) -- 1st round pick who didn't start a game as a rookie. 11 total tackles.
    Curtis Brown (DB, 2011) -- 3rd round pick with no starts and virtually no contribution.
    Jason Worilds (LB, 2010) -- 2nd round pick with 27 tackles and 5 sacks in 2 seasons.
    Kraig Urbik (OT, 2009) -- 3rd round pick who was inactive as a rookie and waived in camp the next season.
    Limas Sweed (WR, 2008) -- 2nd round pick with 7 career receptions. Out of football for a few years already.


    Eric Decosta (Ravens)

    Sergio Kindle (DE/LB, 2010) -- 2nd round pick who has generally been inactive, with no stats in 2 seasons.
    Paul Kruger (DE, 2009) -- 2nd round pick with 19 tackles in 3 seasons.


    Mark Ross and Dave Gettleman (Giants)

    Prince Amukamara (CB, 2011) -- 1st round pick who played just 144 stats and gave up a 122.8 passer rating when thrown at.
    Marvin Austin (DT, 2011) -- 2nd round pick who spent 2011 on IR and appears to be hurt again this year.
    Jerrel Jernigan (WR, 2011) -- 3rd round pick with no catches as a rookie.
    Chad Jones (DB, 2010) -- 3rd round pick with no NFL stats. No longer on team.
    Clint Sintim (LB, 2009) -- 2nd round pick with 11 tackles and 1 sack in 3 seasons.


    These guys seem a little less shiny now, huh?
     

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