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The Jeff Ireland Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by MonstBlitz, Sep 11, 2012.

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  1. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Ok, last thread got closed and I'm guessing it was because there was some name calling or maybe something else I missed? I'm not trying to be obnoxious here, but since every Jeff Ireland thread goes to 20 + pages, clearly the discussion hasn't run it's course.

    So how about I just call this the Jeff Ireland Discussion thread. It's not an anti-Ireland thread, it's not a pro-Ireland thread it's just a thread to civilly discuss Jeff Ireland. Please no name calling, no belittling other posters. Let's try and keep this one open so we have someplace to discuss what's sure to be a point of great debate throughout the entirety of the season. We all have our point of views so let's try and respect each other's positions while debating the issue.
     
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  2. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Jeff Ireland should be filtered as profanity.
     
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  3. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Honestly I believe it has. I mean I can tell you pretty much where every major contributing poster to these Ireland threads stands. I'm pretty sure you could tell me exactly where I stand too or pretty close. I think the threads rambled on with the same logic repeated over and over until everyone was just screaming "NO I'M RIGHT!!!"

    It would be nice if we could keep this one productive and civil.
     
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  4. Killer Bees

    Killer Bees Bringin' the Ruckus

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    :deadhorse:
     
  5. vitalize

    vitalize New Member

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    imo jeff ireland gets a "C" grade as of right now. due to the fact that he hasn't had full control for all but 1 full season, I think he needs more time to be evaulated. if tanny works out and next years draft looks good then i say he stays. if tanny busts and next years draft sucks, he needs to go. however, in order to evaluate this years draft and next years draft we'll need at least 3 seasons...so. i guess i'm ready to give him 3 seasons to show a marked improvement.
     
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  6. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    At least Ireland didn't draft Jaiquawn Jarrett in the 2nd round I guess. :confused2:
     
  7. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    We need a smiley face of monstblitz beating the deadhorse
     
  8. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    This should have been named "The Bizarro Jeff Ireland Thread"
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ireland's career is basically in Tannehill's hands. We'll see how that goes this season.
     
  10. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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  11. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    16 weeks until he's gone....16 weeks until he's gone.... :yahoo:
     
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  12. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Please go with him.
     
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  13. vitalize

    vitalize New Member

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    i don't get it? you hope he fails?
     
  14. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I have been as negative toward Ireland as anyone on this forum. I have now come to the conclusion that this season has to play itself out and if the Dolphins end up with a winning record and in the playoffs, Ireland should be commended and he should keep his job. If the Dolphins are once again a sub 500 team, the owner needs to do what is necessary to hire the best possible candidate to come in and hopefully finally get this team headed in the right direction.

    The Dolphins have played only one game so far in the 2012 season. I'm interested in seeing how the rest of the season goes before, I start back on the , "get rid of Ireland" crusade which I have been on throughout the off season and during the preseason. I just hope that the Dolphins end up showing me that they are as talented as Ross and Ireland seem to think they are. There will be plenty of time after the season to go on more rants about Ireland, if this season ends up as bad as many of us think it will.

    For now, I am just going to sit back and wait and see how the season unfolds.
     
  15. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Well, that may be true. BUT...you saw how fast the last 2 Ireland threads have grown. So even if we know where everyone stands, clearly people still want to talk about the man. And, it's worth noting some people have changed their minds about Ireland. And that might happen both ways as the season progresses.

    Agree 100% on keeping it productive and civil. :up:
     
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  16. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Well, that's fine. But make one of the other 20 or so posters who carried the last thread to 20+ pages.
     
  17. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    He is a bum. Ross needs to dump the dead weight.
     
  18. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Please feel free to post that pic of anti-Ireland again. :lol:
     
  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The fundamental issue is that if you want to put Jeff Ireland in any sort of perspective, you need context.

    You need to have an idea what a successful draft pick looks like. You need to have an idea what a successful free agent acquisition looks like. The reality is much worse than most people seem to have any idea of. Your average draft pick fails. The overwhelming majority of draft picks you make would not in a vacuum garner the same pick at any given point in their rookie contract. You will pay a premium for top market free agents. You will likely have to give out the biggest contract at a position for a specific player, and you will not get the production commiserate. This isn't accepting or excusing failure, this is the reality of the business.

    Pointing to the team's record is not appropriate to grade a GM on. Coaches, injury, happenstance, etc. play huge roles in record that the GM is not responsible for. Even if it was a good measure, Jeff Ireland's most certainly does not show what you think it does. The Dolphins record from 2008 present is nearly exactly average. That is not anything to aspire to, but nor is it an abomination in the face of God or whatever many would have you believe.

    When there is a very large amount of data present on a topic, you've got to understand what that data is to have an informed opinion on the topic. Yelling "THIS **** SUCKS FIRE SOMEONE" in every thread isn't an informed, it's ridiculous.
     
  20. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I copied your response from the other thread so I could respond to it.

    I credited Ireland for Dallas's 2005 draft b/c it's a documented fact that he actually ran that draft and that Ireland is the one who pushed Jerry Jones to draft Ware. Since no such proof exists about Ireland and our '08-'10 draft, I'm not going to singly credit/blame him for any of their shortcomings, especially when it's documented that Ireland's only lone draft was 2011, that our worst pick of those 3 years was Parcells' Pat White pick, and that it was Parcells, not Ireland, who hired the original, failed coaching staff that Ireland had to find players for in the first place.

    It's not a failed pick. It's a casualty of having a new HC thanks to Parcells mistakingly hiring Sparano.

    He did exactly what he said he was going to do---- add depth players, let this young team and new HC see what it can do together for a year before throwing starting money into it. Not grabbing a receiver (granted we did with Chad Johnson) was a head-scratcher, but that in and of itself isn't grounds for firing a GM until we know exactly what plan he has in place, which won't necessarily be seen right away. I find it promising that the rookies Ireland brought in were actually good enough to steal the jobs of some of our FA depth signings.

    Your "at times" reference summed up exactly what Ireland & Philbin didn't like about VD, b/c "at times" isn't good enough if the other "inconsistent times" are jeopardizing the team. It's more important to be consistent than up and down, and Vontae had yet to show he's anything but up and down, and Sean Smith was proving to be the corner we should be spending money re-signing. I didn't say he was worthless, and it's not a fair argument to put words in my mouth like that.
    It doesn't matter what Ireland paid for Vontae. It only matters what he's currently worth, and it doesn't matter how much potential he has if he's not doing what his boss is asking, and there's no excuse for that on a $10 million salary.

    I completely agree, and Ireland agrees as well based on all his comments. If Ireland doesn't make a huge effort to address the position next year (or even this year via trade) I'd change my name to something embarrassing.
    We didn't get rid of Marshall for peanuts. 2 3rds was fair value considering his lofty price and baggage. There could also be a plan to try and add a guy in 2013 that they perhaps feel represents the best fit for the scheme & Tannehill rather than signing a higher priced 2012 FA just to sign one. Fans were upset when we made a lackluster attempt to sign Flynn, but we later found out it was b/c Ireland had grander visions with Tannehill, whom Ireland had secretly coveted since last August. Just b/c nothing has been done at this moment, it doesn’t mean there isn’t a plan, especially considering it’s more important to do what’s in the team’s best interest for the long haul, not just this year.

    Fisher was quoted as openly supporting Ireland, as well shook his head at the unfair criticism Ireland is/was receiving. If you wan't to dismiss it as him being "gentlemanly" in order to make it fit your argument, then that's your choice. Was Fischer just being a gentleman when trying to pry Ireland's right hand man (Gaine) away from him to be his new GM? Gaine must think a lot of Ireland to still be here. Here’s the Jeff Fischer link:
    http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...leslie-frazier

    Time will tell. That's much of my point.

    Honestly, the only fair criticism I can find against Ireland is how the FA receiver position was managed, but I'd like to know exactly what happened and why, and what his intentions were and are before I call for his head b/c of it. Not using a high 2012 pick on a WR was no big deal considering the 3 guys we did take were at greater positional need (QB, starting RT, pass rusher), and that the 4th player, Egnew, might not be a "wide receiver" but he's still a pass catcher, and it's possible he represented the best pass catching value at his selection considering he was the #3 TE where as something like 12 receivers had already been taken.
     
  21. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There really isn't much to say. Most decisions for this season have been made and it is a matter of performance (good or bad). I predict things will turn out badly, but that is what it is. A prediction. Utlimately, it is what Mr. Ross thinks that will provide this story with an ending.
     
  22. vitalize

    vitalize New Member

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    there's one thing that the dolphins haven't had in over a decade and this one thing is needed if a team is going to win.

    stability

    hiring and firing coach after coach and gm after gm will do nothing but keep a team in a perpetual rebuild mode. there is a fine line between overreacting and not reacting. overreacting is firing a gm after one season and not reacting is not firing a gm after a given set of seasons when they have shown no marked improvements.

    and, comparing teams isn't always the best way. some teams just get lucky (Pats with Brady in the 7th round). you have to compare the team with itself. is the talent better, etc? and if you go by one season with one draft you'll never find the true answer. how many times haev the dolphins let a player or coach go too quickly who has shined elsewhere?
     
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  23. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What if he's an evil genius? What if he has a master plan for all those extra picks and all that cap room next year? What if we're sucking for draft position? You can't keep football players from trying to win, so you trade away the good players, start a couple of rookies and go into the season without talent. What if?
     
  24. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm also going to go out there and say that there's not a lot of chance that Jeff Ireland gets fired this off-season.

    This off-season the team compiled picks, signed only small-money and one year deal free agents(besides Richard Marshall), took their lumps in regards to dead cap space, and is estimated to have +/- 50 million dollars under the cap next year.

    That's not what a GM on his last legs does.
     
  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    As good as the Eagles usually do with player acquisition, I'd not be too concerned about Jarrett.
     
  26. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    take a look at some of the crowds this year on the way to 5-11 and voila...he'll be gone.
     
  27. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    100%
     
  28. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    We're 0-1 but it sounds like you're rooting for your won team to lose. Very classy.
     
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  29. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    You don't need to root against your team when your team has Jeff Ireland as GM. Its going to happen its inevitable.
     
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  30. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    lol I'm pretty sure he had a "master plan" for replacing Brandon Marshall too.
     
  31. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Oh, goody. Here's the "you're not a real fan" argument. It's Chad Henne all over again. With the same results, too :lol:
     
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  32. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Still can't believe they did that. I thought going into the draft he was a steal in the late rounds. Then they took him that high and I was like whoa!
     
  33. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    I'm going the other way. Somehow Ireland convinced Mr. Ross there was plenty of talent on the team and it simply wasn't being developed. Okay, fine. I'll concede the previous coaching staff wasn't developing players. This is Philbin's team now. If he says he can work with Irish moving forward, he stays. If not, he's gone.

    It's going to be much easier to find a quality GM that wants to work with Philbin than it is to find another quality HC that's willing to work with the backstabber.
     
  34. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

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  35. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    [​IMG]
     
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  36. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Well, since you mentioned Henne, I was personally more impressed with him coming out of college than I was with Tannehill coming out. So, while I hope Tannehill is the savior franchise QB we all want, I'm not as optimistic about it happening as many others are. JMO.
     
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  37. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    [​IMG]
     
  38. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    This is why if you want to make a conclusion about Jeff Ireland that's convincing at all, you have to do some objective research on what he's done and compare it to what other GMs have done, taking contextual factors into consideration.
     
  39. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    NFL Draft Scout had him projected as a 3-4 rounder.
     
  40. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    You believe he ran the entire draft as a scout, but believe he had 0 input into picks as a General Manager? It just doesn't compute. I'm not saying I don't believe you about him pushing Ware being a documented fact, but I'd love to see the documentation on it if you have a link to share.

    If you can't judge a GM based on what players he drafted that are retained and contributing to a team, what can you judge him by? Having to hire a new coach suddenly turned Gates into a bad player?

    I'm sure Ireland didn't plan on signing 9 free agents and have only 2 of them make it to the 53 man roster. He made bad decisions. Steinbach over Braylon Edwards was a mistake. I won't say Edwards is a super star but he's better than most WRs on our team. I think he had more receiving yards or nearly as many by himself as all our WRs combined on Sunday. And I don't think it matters that rookies beat out FAs. Most of them still haven't proven their good enough to play on Sunday.

    In my opinion you don't trade away players who can be dominant at times for less than you paid. You find a coach who can coach them up. If they prove they can do it at times, a good head coach should be able to get it out of him consistently. I hold Philbin accountable for VD as well, even though my impression from Hard Knocks was that Ireland sold Philbin on the decision to trade him.

    I hope you're right that he has a plan for this year. I don't think he has an acceptable plan but I could be wrong. Let's just watch and see what BM does the rest of this season and we'll revisit the decision to get rid of him for 2 thirds.

    I really can't recall a coach speaking ill of another GM that he interviewed with while still employed in the NFL. It just doesn't happen as it's not a good career move. Maybe Fisher does respect Ireland, but he clearly didn't respect him enough to want to work with him.

    Time will tell. Thanks for revisiting this. I don't agree with you but I appreciate you taking the time to have a reasonable discussion on the topic.
     
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