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My opinion on Philbin.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by jamesthemang, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    Hi everybody, I was reading this site among all the other forums out there and it looked like the best(most intelligent and aesthetic) one, so I decided to join. I just thought I would give my opinion on Philbin based on what I've seen. I read a lot of pretty intelligent posts on here from people who seem to know a lot about football, and I only know the basics of it although I've been a Dolphin fan since about 8. Through the posts I've read there were a few things that I didn't see commented on about so I felt like doing so.

    During Philbin's press conference he said that this was going to be an agressive team in all phases which sounded great because that's how I think life should be played. So far it has been pretty conservative on offense and defense which worries me because of what he said what it was going to be. I understand he is working with what he has and is gradually trying to become that, but there is one problem with that, that is the same thing Sparano was notorious for, only doing X with X. If there was only Y or Z, X was never attempted. To me, the difference between great coaches and okay ones are ones that will take the chances and play agressive whether or not they have X.

    Probably the best example of that right now is the patriots, granted Tom Brady is a great quarterback, but I think it is more of Bill Bellicheck taking the chances with his playcalling/what he tells/lets his coordinators call. The patriots routinely have different players come through their system and shine and this is why I believe they are so stingy with contracts because they believe they can make any player good in their system. It reminds me of when welker was here and everybody thought he was just a decent slot guy and he went over to New England and became one of the best receivers in the league. I understand that our talent isn't great but its certainly not bad, we have a lot of plusses as far as talent goes on our team and a few holes. My point is I believe the Dolphins can be a great team if the coaches give the players the opportunity to. I hope Philbin isn't a X for X guy and will give his players the opportunity to succeed despite the circumstances because the great ones go for it, while the average ones wait for it.

    If Philbin gets agressive fast I think it could be a possible playoff season, but if he just waits until everything is perfect, I believe the Dolphins losing streak of playing it safe 10 years will continue. Lack of agression, not lack of talent, is the Dolphins weakness, here's hoping Philbin changes that. I believe this Sunday against the Jets will be the barometer for it, even though it's so early, I feel it is the turning point of the season because they will need to be agressive to win it and show they can compete with anybody. If they continue to play it safe and not let Tannehill throw deep or let the defense blitz especially in a season where not much is expected I don't believe they ever will or at least it will prove to me that Philbin is only as good as his talent which is no fun because any average coach can do that.

    I'm really not trying to be negative or cynical because I know it's far too early to judge which is why it's just an opinion right now, just felt like putting it out there because I saw the same safe play in Sparano and I never liked him. I believe if people aren't given a chance to succeed, unless they are very strong individually they won't most of the time, so I'm hoping Philbin gets "agressive in all phases of the game" as he said, and gives the Dolphins a chance to win, vs. anybody.

    Cheers. Go Dolphins :D
     
  2. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    I don't think Philbin will hesitate one second when it comes to throwing deep if the corners are sitting on routes. I already love the no-huddle. Keeps both the offense and defense well conditioned. I'm not seeing a lot of flags. I like his focus so far. I liked how he didn't give a single bleep when he got the Gatorade shower.

    Are those Christmas trees on your wallpaper in the background?
     
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  3. Sippi

    Sippi Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Welcome to the site. I think that Philbin is starting to develop his system and find the players that fit that system. Unfortunately when he inherits a team that will take some time. Comparing him to the Patriots and Belicheck who has been there for a decade now is a bit unfair. Like others have said, we will know what we have in time but I like the direction we are headed.
     
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  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Welcome.

    However, going deep is not the only way to play aggressive football.

    Aggressive football is also things like going no huddle and/or not playing to nurse a 3 pt lead.
     
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  5. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    First of all we want to welcome you to the site .Second of all I want to congratulate you on the selection of this site.This is the best Dolphin MB.

    Our membership is comprised of a base of hard core knowledgeable fans who have been together for many years.

    Regarding your thoughts about Philbin I think its too early to come to any judgement .Even though the front office doesnt like to admit it this is the beginning of a restructuring if not a rebuilding process .

    Hopefully you will continue to give us your thoughts and participate in the discussion.
     
  6. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the site,

    I understand your concerns, and they are legit to a point. Think about this for a second. We have a first time head coach, new staff, entirely new team, young QB, and new defense. If you watch football you already know it takes time to "gel" we have some many parts that need to gel for this team to be competitive and begin to realistically think playoffs.

    You cant have the QB just tossing deep passes for the sake of being aggressive as you risk "ruining" him. He has to play more to understand and adjust to the speed of the NFL and when that happens we can open it up some more.

    For this year the best mentality is to just look for our Oline and QB to get better, let Tannehill get comfortable with the offense and see progression. Next year we have a lot of good picks. We can grab a Great wideout early in the draft andf get one via free agency and have those pieces filled. It's going to take 2-3 years for this team to be up there with the better if everything goes to plan..
     
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  7. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    With a rookie QB you have to be conservative. You saw what four turnovers did to this team in week one. When there were no turnovers in week two, the result was the exact opposite.

    The way you play (aggressive versus conservative) has to be based on more than just your philosophy. It has to be based on your appreciation of your personnel and their strengths and weaknesses. You can't jam a square peg in a round hole and come out there playing like you have Dan Marino at QB when all you really have is a rookie.
     
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  8. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    Solid first post and welcome. Disagree with the following.

    On the individual level, if X isn't there and you force it, that's how you end up with pick 6. Think Jay Fiedler. Guy never did understand his limits. In the bigger picture, play your team strengths, not your weaknesses - that's how we ended up losing all those games where we throw 40+ times / game on the strength of Henne's arm. Don't think we ever one a single one of those.
     
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  9. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    Welcome to the site.
    I don't think we will see a really aggressive offense this week they will stay with basic fundamentals and try to out physically play the Jets. The second half the old Jet D should start looking for oxygen.
     
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  10. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    Good point and good responses by the others, I'm pretty sure Philbin is different from Sparano in that he will eventually change the offense based on player ability, but I don't think that should stop him from trying to mix it up and be more agressive on both sides of the ball. This offense is very reminiscent of henning so far in that it's been very predictable what we're doing. I know it was bad line and qb play against Houston during that 2 min collapse but we weren't changing offensively. I don't think that throwing deep and getting intercepted will ruin a good qb, I don't think Tannehill is weak mentally, I feel it will hurt him much more not trying those throws and feeling the coaches don't trust him. For instance, when we were down in Houston and had to throw long to catch up, we were still running and throwing dinks and dunks, that was Henning 101. J.J. Watt got used to the constant dinks and dunks and just que'd on tannehills laser eyes, 3 or 4 tipped balls later, 4 turnovers later, it was over.

    We can win this Jets game based on the lines alone because they are both great and leftover plusses from Sparano, but it's not likely. I believe Philbin will have to get agressive on both sides of the ball to win it, I'm not saying hail mary and blitz on every play but the playcalling seems very limited to the lines right now. On offense they just run run pass short and on defense before the late part of the raider game they weren't blitzing at all, just letting the line dominate which let them play safer but they weren't taking advantage of the chances those lines give them. Many times they almost got carson down or hurried, I feel like if they just sent a few more players he would have been down/intercepted. I know our talent level isn't amazing but it's certainly not bad and my comment about Welker in my first post was to point out that any player can be successfull if given the chance, I just feel they need to take a lot more chances to be successful, sure sometimes it will fail and hurt us but sometimes it will succeed and the main point is for teams to know we are going to go after it and not become the do X for X Sparano team. And if they can't do it now in rebuilding mode when expectations are low, it makes it hard to believe they will later when things aren't perfect then either, essentially I believe what makes great teams is going after it even when the stakes are against you. That's what makes players and coaches good in the clutch.

    I feel that they need to mix it up in these areas.

    1. Open it up for Tannehill, let him throw to the middle of the field and deep more, just give him more field to play with, if they know we are only giving him 30% of the field they will just sit on it instead of being unsure and covering the whole field which opens up our opportunities, if we give Tannehill less opportunities they will shrink even more when playing good defenses like the Jets. The more opportunities we give him the more chances we have to win, he is here to learn after all, and babying him in rebuilding mode is the wrong thing to do, if they are going to let him play, they should let him play.

    2. I read on another post that Wake is playing the run side instead of the rushing side of the line, is that true? If so, they really need to change that, it reminds me of Parcells trying to turn the rushing wake into a run blocker and then wonder why we don't have pass rush. If Wake is the best pass rush we have without blitzing, let him rush especially since he is back to the position he is meant to play but being on the wrong side of the line nullifies that, those almost's against Carson would likely have been sacks, and week one would have gone better as well. This is a big issue if it's true that he is being played there that needs to be fixed. Having a weapon and not using him is like shooting ourselves in the foot purposefully.

    3. Let Reggie and Lamar be on the field at the same time as much as possible, they can both take it to the house by run or catch, I know they block poorly but quick passes to them and their explosiveness will scare defenses from blitzing on us especially if we have early success with them. Those two/Wake/a more free Tannehill are our only real weapons so lets use them.

    4. I like Reshad Jones and believe he has the necessary agression to do a lot of good things if the DC lets him, we just need to blitz more and stop playing safe because of great line play, let that line play lead to sacks and turnovers.

    I believe that if we combine all of these things we will be a much better and more explosive team and people will see that there is plenty of winnable talent already on this team, the coaches just have to give us a chance to win. We won't get to the playoffs playing it safe, good teams will destroy that and the Jets have a good D, with Revis they play agressive and if our OC doesn't open it up it could get bad fast. With our Dline and blitzes we should be able to really get to Sanchez and create points on defense.

    Playing smart isn't only playing to your strengths but also playing agressive because for a slightly above average talent team playing safe simply will not win. Good teams will adapt and it will be another Houston waiting to happen.
     
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  11. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    Good response and true, I like the no huddle thing, that will really help us wear other teams down by "playing fast" and being in from what i've heard good condition. I feel like against Houston a few times they were just trying to keep it tied or play for field goals, I don't remember exactly the play for field goal plays but I remember there was a chance for carpenter to kick a 54 yd FG when his long was 56 and they fake punted with carpenter which worked out good but I still think that's a bad play. I believe they should have went for the field goal since it was possible for 3 points(even though its just a field goal id rather take the points over field position anyday) unless he was injured and if so I would rather just let the punter go about it normally and not risk a high chance of something bad happening.

    Teams like the patriots are always accused of running up the score which they possibly do sometimes but I like their mentality of taking advantage of every opportunity they have. If they can score they are going to try to which is a big reason a lot of their games are big wins, most teams just play safe which we all know playing to win is the only way to win, playing not to lose almost always brings losing. The more points you put on the board the bigger hole your opponent is in and the harder it is for them to win because they become more limited the farther away they get. The Dolphins have mostly played it safe so far but have gone for it a few times when it was the right thing like a 4th and 2 or 3 on the Texans 40 and the same on the Texans goal line if I recall correctly, I would much rather take our chances when we have them rather than wait for the best chance. I hope they play a much larger % of agressive to safe in the future because even if the Dolphins fail, the point is that they tried and the team recognizes that and it rallies them because it shows them their coaches have faith in them and they are in it to win it.

    My favorite quote from the best athlete/competitor ever: “I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. But I can't accept not trying.” - Michael Jordan
     
  12. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    Well, you could end up with the pick 6 but you could also end up with 6, doing it every play is bad but constantly threatening it is very important to keep your opponent on its heels where it is very easy to push them over. If I remember correctly Wandstets offense was very safe like hennings, the only reason I believe he won games is because back then this team was loaded with talent and I remember most of the games being close so to be fair to Jay Fiedler the field he was dealing with was always small so the defense was much more able to pick 6 because they were so tight together against a very safe offense and the box being loaded against Ricky. I stopped watching Sparano after year 2, it was obvious he was a terrible coach and even Dan Marino would have had trouble throwing TD's with him, doesnt matter if you throw it 50 times for 4 yds each, that's still only 200 yds. They shouldn't all be thrown deep, it should be mixed all around the field and go deep when you can. Sparano was afraid of failure so much that many times it looked like a peewee team could steamroll his Dolphins simply because he refused to let them play the game.
     
  13. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    This is true, he can't be judged yet, I get the feeling Philbin will gradually change it, I understand he's just adapting right now, just too much, he's not giving them the chances to succeed with, the line play is really carrying this team right now and covering up many holes in playcalling and player useage.
     
  14. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    And I agree that you have to be aggressive and take some chances to beat a better team, but I don't think you take those chances with your rookie QB, specifically. There are lots of other areas on the team you can be aggressive and take chances with.

    Two reasons: 1) taking chances with a rookie QB stands to help you lose far more than it stands to help you win, which defeats your purpose, and 2) there's a bigger-picture goal of developing that QB over the course of the season, and you don't want to hurt his confidence unnecessarily by taking chances with him and making him responsible for losing a game.

    Be conservative with your rookie QB and put the responsibility for winning the game on the other 21 guys, who are probably only too happy to have that responsibility put on them if it means you're taking it off of the one guy who can lose the game for them all by himself if you get too aggressive with him (the rookie QB).
     
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  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Again i think you have a narrow view on what is aggressive and what isn't. We scored 2 TDs in the 4th quarter when we were already up. We didn't even kneel, we kept punishing them with Lane. The pooch punt sets us up in the future. Teams are going to have game plan against that.

    I just think in a game where there was 5 offensive TDs and no FGs all with a rookie QB, it is not the right time to say we need to be more aggressive. The thing about Philbin, (I think we'll see in time) is that there won't be a aggressive or passive mentality overall, it will depend more on the team we are playing against. I think when he said aggressive I think he meant up tempo and not playing for FGs, all counter to what Sparano did.
     
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  16. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    Yep, very true, while there is only one Dan Marino I believe Tannehill can do much more then he is being allowed to right now, and that will only hurt him in the long run, if they never give him the chance to give him that confidence from big plays and resolve from being tested he won't have it when we need it which is very important in the playoffs. While the playoffs are all clutch because it's one and done, there are many clutch situations that come up in the regular season that many coaches just shy away from and they aren't successful in the playoffs where everything matters.
     
  17. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    The fact that he kept trying to score late was great, not only does that give us more breathing room, it relieves chance of injury from everybody play hard. I really don't like the pooch, no reason to take a small chance at a small benefit rather then try and score 3, big chance of something bad happening in that play for a small gain, keep it simple and only use trick plays when the other team is really vulnerable to it or we really need it, it just doesn't send the right message to the players, they want to be rewarded with points for their hard play, even if its only 3. I really don't like the play against your competition mentality either, Sparano always did that and it makes you adapt to them rather than them adapting to you and just being good at what you do rather then being good at adapting. Philbin said he wanted to be good at certain things and be known for it so I hope he doesn't take that we adapt to you mentality.
     
  18. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    The pooch was a great idea. The entire game could have turned on a missed FG right there, and it was an unreasonably long attempt early in the game where you don't need to take a giant risk for three points.

    Just my two cents.
     
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  19. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I'm sorry, but I still disagree about the pooch.

    I think your concerns might be valid, but they simply didn't play out that way. No one was down and we went on to score plenty. Like you said, plays like that do have their place, the difference for me is that this regime obviously knows when to use them.
     
  21. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    I know on the surface it looks better and I appreciate your opinion but I believe it was 3-0 that point for us against Houston and every point we get against them being such huge underdogs at their place gives us huge confidence and more importantly it lets the players know the coaches are with them and they rally around that, even if it was missed the defense would have still been very fired up for the attempt at it. A drop in the pond can make huge ripples, who knows if we were 6-0 how everything would have changed and what would have happened afterwards. I'm saying that things tend to snowball, trying to win will usually leads to wins and trying not to lose usually leads to losses, football especially is a very momentum oriented game.
     
  22. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    Okay, I got the games mixed up where it was, I had a really bad last Saturday so things have been pretty foggy, you're posts tend to be right on but difference of opinion and diversity is what makes things great so we can agree to disagree, to me it was the wrong play but still much better then what Sparano ever did.
     
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  23. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Sure it did. It enabled them to get real-game experience while having a developmentally appropriate dose of responsibility for winning on their shoulders.
     
  24. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    Yeah it was kind of cool he didn't respond when drenched since Sparano would jump over the moon for a FG which was embarassing as hell, but he still should enjoy things more. Sparano was right to be emotional but always over the wrong things lol, if he did that for TDs or used that energy to scream at his failure coordinators I think we would all have liked him much more. The wallpaper in the background is of old farming families, that's the second time people have liked that picture for the wallpaper lol :D, i like your Buddha Ricky, I always loved that guy despite him destroying us by quitting that year.
     
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  25. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    From experience, the experience from going one way or the other always trumps being in the middle.
     
  26. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    What experience is this?
     
  27. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not to mention a FG attempt then would have been into a stiff but somewhat swirling wind. Carpenter wasn't going to make that kick if he had tried IMO.
     
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  28. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    My whole life I've stood in the middle trying to look at things and learn from them so that I wasn't the same as everybody else because when I was little it all seemed like such deja vu looking at life. While I've learned a lot from watching it's hurt me far more then it has ever helped me and I would trade a day of making hard decisions and learning from them for everything I have learned so far in a heartbeat because that's where the real knowledge comes from, the knowledge from taking chances, which most people shy away from because its much harder but so much more rewarding.

    Most of the things people regret before they die are the chances they never took.
     
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  29. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    Yeah it would have been tough for sure, but taking the chance is the important thing, even if its a small opportunity we should take advantage of as many opportunities as we can. That's one thing the Patriots get, they score everytime they can because they know that nothing is sure in football, even bad teams can beat you.
     
  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I have seen the Patriots do that pooch punt. The Patriots do play field position battle at times as well.
     
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  31. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I really think the big advantage we created in the field position battle had a lot more to do with the win than some are recognizing.
     
  32. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Well, all the respect in the world for your own personal experience, but I hardly think that translates to making decisions about the rookie quarterback on a football team, and I have to say that if Joe Philbin was basing his decisions on such a thing, he wouldn't be head coaching material IMO.
     
  33. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    welcome aboard! U chose the right place.
    Are u referring to his first press conference? I just listened to that earlier today because it seems to be the only one on youtube which seems to be the only website with videos that this phone will let me play. In that press conference he did a great job of telling what direction he wants the team to go in as well as explaining that the first year will be more about evauluating and playing to the teams strengths and hiding their weaknesses. Just give Philbin some time, He's already made a difference and is the right man for the job IMO.
     
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  34. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Leave the political comments in the pofo forum please. If you cant, it simply makes more work for the staff deleting and giving points.
     
  35. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    Well all life is pretty much the same from a ant to a football field(No, I'm not high, lol :P), I'm 100% sure Dolphins would learn more from taking chances whether they work or not then just playing it safe but I think Philbin is doing a good job, I just think he needs to play more agressive when we start facing better teams and to learn while we can afford to. Of course coaches have to know the game but also have guts as we saw even the smartest coaches ( saban ) couldn't do it without guts, he played super safe and that's why he couldn't win games at the pro level where you can't get away with all the shotty playcalling like in college. I think it will be fun to watch and this Sunday will be a big measurement stick as to where we are, I think Philbin can do it though.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lolll
     
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  37. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    This is exactly right. We were playing for field position.
    It was well executed.
     
  38. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    1. This means: rolling him out less (which worked well), relying on longer blocking from the OLine (which could lead to more sacks), keeping him in the pocket (more potential for tipped passes), and expecting there to consistently be a WR who has beaten his coverage deep (not seeing this happening on any film I have watched of this team... Meaning Tannehill may have to eat the sack, throw it away or lob it up and pray the CB doesn't come down with it). You say you want to build his confidence but those things aren't confidence builders. Chances are higher of there being problems than of there being successful plays. I think the real issue is you aren't looking for successful plays (more than 4 yards positive gain) you are looking for highlight reel plays, but want them often. By definition highlight reel plays do not happen consistently. That's why they are called highlights.

    2. I think Wake rushes off of Right End, does he not? And moves to Left End when they take their tight end out. Not sure he rushes through the strong side TE too often, but I'll watch for it next game.

    3. So you want two explosive running backs on the field, but recognize it will mean worse protection for Tannehill and thus quicker shorter passes. I thought you were tired of the quicker shorter passes and wanted them to throw deep. Well, with your Bush-Miller package they are less likely to have good enough protection to throw deep, so you are looking at fewer chances to go deep. Which do you want now, Miller-Bush, or more deep throwing? Everything you do in football has a domino effect.

    4. Clemons is a liability in coverage, and our CBs are not great. If Rashad, the one guy who is playing decently back there, is always up at the LOS then it should be much easier for QBs to hit deep throws against us. If you think that won't happen because Jones will be sacking them on every snap, think again. Safety blitzes do not reach the QB more often than they do reach the QB. I can see bringing Rashad Once, MAYBE twice per game, but even then opposing offensive co-ordinations will prepare their team to take advantage of the look and strike us deep. You'll get a highlight play, but not the one you want.

    Overall, I think your suggestions focus only on the upside, on what you want to see as a result in every situation, and ignore the risk, cost and downside of each move. Coaches have to weigh the benefit versus the cost before making these decisions. Everything is great if there is no downside... But that's not the reality.
     
  39. jamesthemang

    jamesthemang Banned

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    Sep 20, 2012
    1. I'm not saying throw deep everytime I'm just saying go downfield more, just stop playing only 30% of the field most of the plays.

    2. I don't know why wake is ever not rushing the weak side, let the stronger guy pick up the runs, let the pass rusher rush the passer.

    3. I want explosive backs on the field, we're lucky in that we have two very good ones. I said if they blitz throw short in the beginning which will make the other team back off, if they don't keep punishing them, eventually we will do some major damage with both of these guys together. I'm not saying I don't want to throw deeper either just by saying I want these two guys on the field, I didn't say they had to be on always, just a lot more then they are, and hopefully together, they are probably our best weapon right now, so lets use them. Again, I'm not saying throw deeper always, just more conistently, open up the offense so defenses can't sit on us, our safe play will hurt us way more then help us against good teams and mix it up, use the weapons we have at different times, right now we aren't using our weapons correctly.

    4. I just think we need to blitz more, not Rashad everytime but mix it up, I just meant Rashad's agression is something we need to capitalize on, not shun, agressive defenses are the best ones.
     
  40. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Dec 13, 2007
    Still wanna take chances?
     

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