Accuracy and ball placement on the part of the quarterback has much more of an effect on yards after the catch than the ability to run after the catch on the receiver's part. Cruz's ability after the catch would be completely negated if he had Mark Sanchez throwing the ball to him rather than Eli Manning.
Do you think Kolb's current 97.6 QBR with 7 TDs to 2 INTs is b/c he's a great QB? That's what I thought.
Really? I'd say their defense has had much more of an effect on their play during this 13 game stretch.
ya see whats incommon there it all involves Hartline - Tanny has to spread the ball around more when it comes to this - it seems to me when we get to the red zone he looks and forces the ball to Hartline and to thus point it isnt working - mabey just mabey he should give another receiver a shot - so I'm not going to say its we dont have redsone targets because nobody else ever gets a shot to me
So the **** what! WR play is still independent of the QB. If the WR can't make plays with the ball in his hands, then all those short passes by Eli Manning would remain short passes rather than the game-changing TDs they became with Cruz & Nicks catching them. Stop while you're behind. Please.
No but that Fitzgerald makes Kolb actually look like an NFL Qb at all makes him more valuable then Kolb. So explain to me why Fitzgerald averages less then 70 yards per game with Kolb and almost 90 with Skelton? Maybe its cause nothing can help Kolb be a good QB? I mean for craps sake Fitzgerald is burning through Jerry Rices records, imagine what hed do with an actual NFL QB? Heck if he had Matt Moore that would be the best QB hes had since Kurt Warner #HowSadIsThat? I dont love the WR position like some drool over it but in this day and age you absolutely need 3-4 wr's who can make plays. Not necessarily a 1&2 but you need 4 competent players there at least 2 that can get down field. At most we have 1 (Hartline). This team will not take the next step offensively until we get more players there. They dont necessarily have to be drafted highly or even be high profile guys but at least 1 better have size and another one better be a guy with at least a couple 1000 yard years.
I agree, one of our problems is outside of Bess and Bline the other Wr's produce jackola, you need 4 Wr's who can play, and a Te who can do things down the field, right now we are a plane with 4 engines but only 2 are working properly. Bline and Bess are fine, Bad Luck and no one else at Wr behind them is holding back the offense.
Which is why you need both, a good QB and good targets. Yes a wr cant make plays after the catch without a QB who can get him the ball but a QB cant be successful with players who cant make plays on the short stuff nowadays. To think otherwise is simply outdated thinking. The way the refs call PI is what changed that. You get freebies now for so much as breathing on wr's and if you have guys who stretch defenses, present mismatches on DB's (i.e. we need height!) and are threats after the catch youre a lot more likely to get those.
Next draft I would be doubling down (maybe even tripling down) on WR, CB. And doubling down on TE. Hartline is a solid #2. He has earned that. I would ratherwe get Bess back in the slot or as the 4th guy. We need that guy who can just make yards after the catch and gets seperation demanding double teams. We also need a TE we can match with Fasano blocking. A solid seam TE. I don't wait for Egnew to figure it out. Move Richard Marshall to FS. Draft 2-3 CB's and either resign S.S. or pick up a solid corner in FA. The CB's have to be pushed. Whatever picks we have left....work on safety depth. However all this comes after spending our 1st on a pass rusher!
You don't seem to take take into account how explosiveness and unique athletic traits can make up yards and inches on a field?
Obviously you never saw the big plays and 13 TDs by Santonio Holmes & Braylon Edwards during NY's 2010 AFC runner up season, some of which were game-winners. Perhaps you didn't watch the NY-Miami game where Edwards broke our back.
Did Eli get open, catch his own f***ng pass, and then take it to the house? I think fuggin not. So according to you, Eli was responsible for one thing, the throw.... meanwhile the WR was responsible for 3 things to make all those TDs happen. Nice try, brobeans.
This is the dumbest of arguments b/c Marshall is an example of what happens when your receiver FAILS TO MAKE PLAYS in the redzone, evidence by his half a dozen+ dropped TD passes, so basically what you're saying is it doesn't matter that he dropped all those TD passes. Marshall is also an example of what CAN HAPPEN when you have a great receiver capable of making plays b/c he was a major reason why Chad Henne was one of THE BEST 3rd down passers in the NFL in 2010.
B/c Kolb still has to throw passes to other guys, which Zona was lacking. Why is it Fitz was able to catch 1400 yards and 8 TDs last year despite garbage at QB? Was it perhaps b/c WRs can actually make plays on their own even if Tom Brady isn't throwing the football?
I think what is required is a mix of Vet wr's with a young Qb, then young Wr's with a vet Qb. At first the young Qb has a tough time elevating other young Wr's, as they gain experience they elevate unknown Wr's games. This, along with a strong running game was what made The Nacho relatively successful at first, as the Vet wr's left and running game degraded, he has been unable to fill the gap. Give Tannehill as many starts as Nacho has had as a pro imo he will be a much better Qb. If folks think about this, if Ted Ginn had panned out, Tannehill would have the young Vet Wr with dominant skills.
His point is that if you put Brian Hartline on the Giants he would be making the same kind pf plays you are citing.
One thing I don't want to leave out is how the Qb is bringing the best out of the skillset positions... Making the players around you better..
In all fairness to Cruz & Nicks, I don't think Hartline has the athletic ability to make the plays that myself and others are talking about, which is my point. He had 253 yard day and only 1 TD. I'd rather have a playmaking receiver catch 100 yards but have 2 of those catches go for TDs b/c of a greater ability to make plays after the catch. I'm still a big fan of Hartline, but defenses will give tons of yards to Brian all game knowing he has difficulty putting it in the endzone. He's a terrific possession receiver who can move the chains, but he's not a scorer. The offensive design combined with his route-running prowess can get him all the yards he can handle in between the 20's, but that all changes inside scoring range when the field shrinks, and respectfully, I've never to rarely seen Hartline make one of the plays like I've been citing from Cruz or Nicks, so I wouldn't expect it to change if he were a Giant b/c these are plays that happen with the ball in his hands, not before it. He's had 3+ years here w/o any of those Victor Cruz types of plays; meanwhile Cruz established himself as a playmaker during last year alone.
People are confusing Hartline having a good game under optimal conditions vs Hartline being a good player. All game long our WRs are getting man coverage w/ little or no safety help. Not only is it it easier to get open, it's easier to stack YAC and score. Bess is making a guy miss and getting a few extra yards. Hartline is making no one miss at all. OTOH if Nicks is catching those balls, he's breaking a tackle or two, and heading for the end zone. Ditto for Cruz. If we had Cruz and Nicks instead of Hartline and Bess then AZ would never have flooded the LOS the way they did. And if they were crazy enough to try it Tanne would've had 600 yds and 4 or 5 TDs.
Absolutely, just talking about today, he was throwin dudes open, really good accuracy.. He's got to learn to close games and be aware of situational football.
All from the pocket..I wonder if the scrambling part of his game is going to come once he settles down...he seems to really enjoy being in the pocket...I mean he's deadly outside if it, but that's usually by scheme.. So he impressed us today, and he didn't use a big part of his repertoire. I know some folks will like that hes staying in the pocket..
That's really kind of ridiculous. Teams are not playing cover-0 vs. the Dolphins. Having a safety in the box doesn't mean a team is selling out vs. the run, and it doesn't even inherently mean any sort of concession in the passing game. There are teams who will have a safety in the box very frequently regardless, and the Cardinals(and for that matter, the Jets) are one of them. The Cardinals gameplan wasn't not giving a **** about the Dolphins passing game, it was let's blitz the **** out of the rookie quarterback and flood the short area. That's not a sign of disrespect, it's basic football and a big part of how the Cardinals are successful.
Secondary and lack of depth at wr have been and continue to be issues. Ireland trades Davis, which I had not problem with, but doesn't really bring in any new depth. He has two free agents to show for that are still on the roster, Marshall and Naanee. Both were instrumental in big plays for the other team yesterday.
I was wondering who blew the two linebacker blitz pickups. I didn't realize Lane blew the critical pickup that caused the Tannehill fumble. Who missed the other block in OT that led to the interception?
How does Miami set a FRANCHISE record in sacks, receiving yards by a wideout (which btw is no easy thing to do considering the Marino years) as well as their qb throws for 450+ while sprinkling in another career game from Smith, but lose still? How?
Because hes Kevin Kolb? Only Andy Reid can make that guy look like anything worthwhile? Sort of like Andy Reid was the only one who was able to make A.J. Feeley look like anything worthwhile. Fitz is merely a player not a god. All I know is Fitz makes John Skelton look like an NFL QB so that speaks volumes to me.
I'm confused. Did you quote me by accident? I'll hold off on responding till I'm sure b/c you seem to be arguing with a bunch of things I didn't say.
I don't see how I've at all mischaracterized your argument. Little or no safety help is not accurate.
That's on purpose. I was referring to how Brian Hartline has had a legit opportunity (due to Tannehill's good work) at catching at least 6 touchdowns this year which he could have made good on if he were actually a dynamic player (i.e. 'ideal starter'). He's getting yards but I would say it's more due to his ability to get open against single coverage, Mike Sherman's play calling, and Joe Philbin's guidance on the game plans (I really do think Green Bay misses him).
I believe if you put Hartline on the Giants he would essentially be Domenik Hixon. I'm not trying to sell Hartline short, again I want to remind people I once felt pretty alone just a short couple of months ago as everyone was saying we should cut or at the very least bench Brian Hartline...I'm just saying he's not a Victor Cruz, and he's not a Hakeem Nicks. I don't even know why Cruz and Hartline are being compared. Cruz is closer to a Davone Bess, except with legit speed and explosion. Hartline is more a poor man's Mario Manningham.
Wait for it... ...Daniel Thomas. (oh nozzz, I'm so surprised!) To be fair we don't truly know if he blew it or not.
Poor mans Manningham? See I don't know about that. Your either selling Hartline short or overrating Manningham imo.
