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The Jeff Ireland Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by MonstBlitz, Sep 11, 2012.

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  1. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    How am I wrong on things I never said? I never said Sparano was HC material and I never hinted one was helping the other more.

    But I am seeing some might have such a deep dislike for Ireland they might never give the man credit he deserves. To me so far his only Achillie Heel he seems to have is the 2nd round pick.

    And believe me I wanted him gone as much as everyone, but I like this roster and the way it's starting to come around.
     
  2. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    He does have a knack of finding DB gems with late round picks, some of them have been stepping up like Jones, Carroll and Wilson.
     
  3. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Not to mention the area of the team everyone thought was the weakest, wide receiver, which is currently being manned more than adequately by a 4th-round pick and a UDFA.

    Like I said, people may have wanted to wait until these players actually started playing games before expressing themselves with such certainty. I mentioned Brian Hartline as possibly developing into a Jordy Nelson-type player and was laughed off the board. Well don't look now, but that's exactly what he's becoming.

    When you're dealing with developing players, you need to wait to see how they're developing before you crucify your personnel guy.
     
  4. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    The WR position is still weak. That was apparent today when only 2 WRs were targeted. I repeat, only 2 WRs had targets!

    In a Mike Sherman/Joe Philbin offense that lines up in many 3 and 4 WR sets, only having 2 guys worthy of throwing to is a problem.
     
  5. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    And those two receivers are performing among the best in the league.

    Surely you don't think that was the sentiment about them before the season in discussions about Jeff Ireland.
     
  6. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Sure, they are. And I'm very happy about that.

    No, it wasn't the sentiment so much about them. But there was dissatisfaction with Naanee as the #3. There was dissatisfaction about not exploring other options for that 3rd guy
     
  7. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Sure, and you're going to find errors like that by every GM, but of course what was missing from all this was any objective comparison of Ireland to other GMs, IMO because people just needed a scapegoat. It was easier just to crucify Ireland and pin the blame on him than to do any real objective analysis of the situation.
     
  8. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Well I think you can find some objective posts made.

    But objectively comparing GMs is not really feasible. Each move is made under different situations with different variables in place. I think all you can do is judge the moves made within the situation it was made. You can discuss the alternatives to that move and judge whether those moves would have been better or not.
     
  9. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    There were no posts made that compared Ireland to other GMs in a systematic manner other than the thread Fineas started.

    Then any viewpoint about the matter should be stated with a great deal less certainty.
     
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  10. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You can absolutely do that. It just takes effort.
     
  11. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Can you give me an example of how this can be done. Just one move Ireland made side by side with a move another GM made
     
  12. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Basically, they want you to do a lot of work trying to explain something that they already know but refuse to acknowledge.

    Instead of us sitting back and using the teams record and lack of overall talent the last few years as proof, somehow the whole debate turned into "Oh yeah, well other guys are just as bad!"
     
  13. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You can compare any number of things. You can compare the decision to pick up Reggie Bush to Ahmad Bradhaw and D'Angelo Williams being resigned by ther teams. You can do whatever you want as long ad there's a logical semblance.
     
  14. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    There's no need to discuss Ireland any further. This is Joe Philbin's team. If he's okay with Ireland I am too. If not, so be it.
     
  15. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Between the hiring of Philbin and drafting of Tannehill, Ireland's past offseason looks like a big time winner.
     
  16. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    A team's record can be attributable to a great many things other than the GM's overall performance.

    This is what should be only too easy to show objectively if it were true. Why has no one done that?
     
  17. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    But this is really just judging a move Ireland made and comparing it to his other options. Saying he made a good move signing Bush isn't necessarily saying that Reese made a bad move re-signing Bradshaw.

    And saying that Ireland made the better move than Reese in that given situation is completely subjective especially based on the circumstances (cap room, current roster, QB situation, backups, resources used on that position recently, etc, etc, etc.).

    And that, IMO, is why it's not really feasible. Too many different circumstances and variables that no matter the amount of research done, the comparison can never be objective
     
  18. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    And this is a very large reason why people's opinions will start to change, or are already changing.
     
  19. PerfectTeam

    PerfectTeam Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I believe Philbin was Ross's pick. Ireland wanted Mike McCoy I believe. You also have to wonder if Ireland would of drafted Tannehill if Sherman wasn't on staff but I'm willing to give that one to Ireland.
     
  20. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I think they were both Ireland picks. I don't think Stephen Ross just came up with Philbin on his own.
     
  21. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    That's what I like about Stringer, you're always fighting for the underdog lol. And you're right, his offseason has to be considered a bona fide success for Ireland, even if most of his FA signing never panned out.
     
  22. PerfectTeam

    PerfectTeam Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  23. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Ross may have wanted Philbin, after Ireland brought him to be interviewed. They may have had a different opinion on who the best candidate was, but that doesn't mean that the process wasn't the same for both candidates.
     
  24. PerfectTeam

    PerfectTeam Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You can't really give Ireland all the credit for bringing in Philbin seeing as how Carl Peterson was a big part of the search as was Ross. They did go through the same process but as was reported by Schefter, Ireland supposedly wanted McCoy more so than Philbin. I give Ireland some credit for being part of the process of bringing Philbin here but to consider this a feather in Ireland's cap for having a good off season is grasping to me.
     
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  25. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Ireland for President
     
  26. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Do we know how much involvement either of them had in finding Philbin???
     
  27. Section126

    Section126 We are better than you. Luxury Box

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    Ireland looking better by the day except for that Marshall trade, and not replacing him.
     
  28. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    hubris:deadhorse::deadhorse:

    who's next on the hate list?
    Ireland is arguably the best GM in recent memory.
    everything is going well for a change.
    looks like there is competence from front office to coaching cadre
    we finally have our franchise QB & coaches that coach & game-plan
    I see nothing negative about the season or the team
    would be a good idea to quit the *****ing & enjoy the season
    this will be a developmental year but has already shown itself to be worth watching
     
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  29. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I agree but in theory, at the time, it was the right decision considering the offense was intended on being predicated upon spreading the ball around, which would not make Marshall a happy camper, and working with a rookie QB or possibly Matt Moore again would also not make Marshall a happy camper, and a disgruntled, non happy-camping Marshall can do more harm than good. He's in the perfect situation in Chicago in their offense and with his old QB to keep him happy, and a happy Marshall is a good Marshall.

    Ireland's true merit will still be made or potentially broken by what he does with next year's FA and draft, but I think he has us on the right track as of now.
     
  30. PerfectTeam

    PerfectTeam Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No we don't. It's why you can't give you can't consider Philbin an Ireland decision.
     
  31. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    And as of right now there is no objective evidence that his presence would've helped the team, or that his absence is hurting it.

    That was another one of those offseason "theories" that isn't being supported by what's going on in reality, but I suspect you personally will take it to your grave.
     
  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    So what. That's all you got to make your argument?---> To cherry pick some meaningless stat and try to make it look significant as if we actually spent money in FA and dished out multi year contracts that turned out to be busts? Gimme a break.

    The FAs who are no longer on the team were bandaids to begin with. They were insurance policies to hold us over until the youngens stepped up, and in most of the cases the youngens stepped up quick enough to make most of those bandaid FAs expendable this year. Convenient of you to try and turn a positive into a negative in order to support your weak argument. :wink2:
     
  33. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think that's grossly over complicating things when in most cases you can find very adequate grounds for comparison. If the two players are close, sure. But usually they aren't, not to that degree.
     
  34. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    According to the world, Parcells hired our entire staff of initial failed coaches in '08 whom we were stuck with for 3 years on average and in turn set us back the following few years.

    A. If Philbin "was" Ross's guy, did Ireland veto the decision and go with McCoy?
    B. Schefter is reporting HERESAY. There's actually no factual report whatsoever.
     
  35. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    It wasn't the getting rid of Marshall part of it, it was the not replacing him part of it.
     
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  36. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    And of course everyone who espoused that viewpoint took into consideration that Brian Hartline would be playing the way he is, and still thought we needed a replacement. :rolleyes:

    Find me one post that says, "I expect Brian Hartline to perform like one of the best receivers in the league, but despite that, I still think we need to replace Brandon Marshall with someone else."

    No, on the other hand, the belief was that the WR corps would be woefully inadequate without Marshall, a belief that isn't being supported by something called reality.
     
  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Hindsight. You still need at least 3 viable NFL quality WRs in this league. No one expected Hartline to be much more than he'd been before this season either. A decent #2. Find me one post from the Marshall trade to training camp that says Hartline is going to lead the league in receiving yards at the quarter pole.
    Until we signed Gaffney, we've gone with 2 viable NFL WRs, and a bunch of nothing much else. Had Chad not gotten himself cut, we may have had 3 if he regained any of his pre-2011 form. His limited performance before being cut didn't offer much hope that was going to be the case though. Not in my opinion anyway. To sign just him and Naanee as the veteran warm bodies to possibly fill Marshall's spot in the WR corps was really pretty stupid, IMO.
     
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  38. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Actually what we're doing is evaluating the "foresight" that Marshall needed to be replaced by someone other than who he was replaced with. That "foresight" was incorrect. Hartline is more than adequately replacing him.
     
  39. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    You also have to consider the fact that Hartline is benefiting from a new and superior offensive scheme. Who is to say BM couldn't have done the same and helped us produce more points?

    I was fine with the trade but I still believe he hasn't been adequately replaced. I just believe he can be replaced in the future rather than needing instant gratification.
     
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  40. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Gotta call myself out on this with how Rashad and Sean Smith are playing.

    Maybe it was the coaching after all.
     
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