Ross: No. 1 receiver top offseason priority

I believe the only reason it wasn't done was because there wasn't any good realistic options in free agency and I can't argue with the players that were drafted. I would have to assume that Philbin still feels the same way and contrary to what he wants, we will get a #1 WR next off season, like the owner and GM wants, and at a time where the talent and resources will be available.

 

Right, but what has been the blueprint of success? Generally speaking, its been finding guys in the draft that play above their draft position. Thats how you get the most value-added. There aren't many teams who have had success by signing expensive FAs, especially at the WR position.

 

While all true this stuff seems to find its way to the media with such regularity that finding the leak and or only saying these types things within a smaller well trusted circle needs to become a priority. Preferably both.

As for the later, I couldn't agree more.

 

So does that mean when rookies play above their draft position that their team shouldn't re-sign them as a FA?
If we played on nothing but rookie contracts we'd have a crap ton of unused cap space every year.

 

You're misunderstanding. I like Mike Wallace. I'd like Mike Wallace on this team. I've pretty strongly advocated he's worth paying a premium for.

That's my opinion though, and there are some pretty valid reasons why they would be more interested in a different type of wide receiver. He's super effective in his targets and offers a fairly unique skill-set, but frankly there are quite good reasons why they might be interested in having someone who can fit specific skills and do certain things rather than what Wallace does well.

 

If he still doesn't understand that the stuff that he says and does will make its way into the news and have an effect and be misrepresented, that's a pretty big problem.

 

No, you need to pick and choose. I am absolutely in favor of re-signing guys for their market value. There is an inherent advantage for teams to re-sign guys, because they have so much familiarity with them. I am not in favor of signing guys whose teams chose not to re-sign them.

Either way, its paramount to have guys on rookie contracts that are playing way above that contract. That is essentially the biggest area where teams can get value-added in the NFL these days. That is why teams value 2nd round picks so much. If you hit on a player there, its a huge coup, because they are making so little. It is extremely rare to find guys like Wake and Bush that play above their salary on the open market.

Just even from an anecdotal standpoint, you can look at the Giants with JPP and Cruz as a strong example.

 

he should shut up about anything that upgrades our football team, and just say we're going to the superbowl every year.

 

They aren't and I'd be shocked if even they considered themselves as such so what's the issue?

 

He was in his "cave" when he said this.
It's his team and it was a closed door meeting if you read the article.
If an owner can't have a private meeting with his staff about what he wants to see in HIS organization I don't know who can.

Besides, he's talking about an issue we all know is true.
If anything Ross' next step should be turning Dolphins HQ upside down to find out which idiot is getting a little too close to these media vultures and giving them info they shouldn't have. Just my 2 cents.

 

Disagree.

It's a big problem to expect all your discussions behind closed doors to make its way into the news.

 

Fans weren't there. It was an in-house meeting.

 

I still disagree and if Jennings is already out of his prime having just turned 29, that's a problem. Again, he's a good receiver. But physically he is really just average across the board -- height, weight, strength, speed, jumping ability, etc. Sure, he's been productive, but he's had great QBs throwing to him and the other WRs in GB have been very productive too.

Marshall and Jackson are about as fast as Jennings but 5-6 inches taller, 40-50 lbs heavier and correspondingly stronger. They have much more physical talent IMO.

 

Rex Ryan has dibs on that statement

 

Ross's comment shows me that he is just like most fans. They get caught up in the flashiness of the wide receiver position and do not understand the lack of impact they actually make in the grand scheme of things.

Once again, wide receivers are the shiny hood ornaments on the car. They look good, but they have no effect on how the car runs.

 

Don't know if this question has been asked yet but because I am SICK TO DEATH about hearing about wide receivers I'll ask it anyway...

Hypothetical: If Brian Hartline catches 90 for 1,300 and 5 TD's and Bess goes 80 for 1,100 and 5 TD's do we still need the mythical "#1 wide receiver"? 90 for 1,300 and 5 TD's ARE #1 RECEIVER NUMBERS!

Edit: I am a believer that this team needs a big red zone receiver BTW but paying through the nose to get a guy who will put up numbers that are identical to the guys we already have is a sideways move.

 

No, we'll need a great receiving tight end, which is what we already need right now instead of a #1 wide receiver anyway.

 

Mike Wallace please.

 

I don't know that I would want the Dolphins to use their first round draft pick on a WR. I would rather see them select a pass rusher or a safety to play opposite Jones with that first pick. They could always take a WR with one of their second round picks, or sign one of the top free agent wide receivers after the season.

I will admit though that it was Ross, who stated during last season and again in the off season, that the Dolphins needed to upgrade the QB position. He was right about that and the Dolphins definitely upgraded the position by selecting Tannehill.

 

In my mind the redzone reciever is a #1 WR. If those are 2 different things than I am not aware of it. The only time I think its different is if you have a good TE in the redzone, but other than that most #1 WRs are good in the redzone like a Dwayne Bowe type IMO. In my mind, if Hartline and Bess put up those type of numbers the only thing we are missing in that regard is a redzone WR, but like I said I believe thats the same thing as a #1 WR.

 

Spend our first pick on a WR. In my eyes it's much easier to find a pass rush specialist or safety outside of round one than it is an impact WR. Not to say they don't exist, they do, but it's just far less likely than finding a DE who can pass rush or a decent safety say in round two.

Unless of course we sign D. Bowe or another WR who becomes available.

 

I don't disagree with any of that. When you have a good assessor of talent like Ireland, IMO it provides you the freedom to occasionally add a higher dollar free agent w/o cap-straining yourself.

My previous response was simply pointing out that at some point everyone becomes a FA, our guys included, and if there's a FA that presents more value to us than one of our own, then there's not really much difference between signing him or your guy outside of not previously being on the team. Your own player has the option of signing anywhere, and as such doesn't necessarily mean you're getting a bargain to sign him.

Who says FAs are FAs because their original teams don't want to re-sign them? There's just too many factors that play into it, including where the player himself wants to go, whether or not his original team has the cap space to afford him, whether or not the team needs his services enough to pay for them, and whether or not the team has a chunk of cap space already invested in his position.

 

A few things, respectfully:
1. that's a hypothetical
2. What does our overall offensive efficiency/scoring production look like among their hypothetical success?
3. Do those hypothetical numbers represent our entire combined WR production just like it currently does?
3. Does their hypothetical success come at the expense of Bush's?
4. Does their hypothetical success come with continued turnovers via the passing game that allows opponents an easier opportunity to score points?
5. 1 TD in 5 games doesn't extrapolate to 10 TDs in a season.

If Hartline hypothetically puts up identical, productive, big-time numbers like the type of top 15 receiver you're referring to, then you're gonna have to pay through the nose for Hartline, too, b/c neither he nor his agent are going to give Miami a bargain-basement price to keep him here as he'll command top 15 money. But that's not gonna happen b/c he's not a top 15 receiver. He'll get paid what he's worth, which is probably in the ballpark of $3.5 million/year, so if you want even more production than that (especially in the scoring department), then you're gonna have to pay for it..... either via FA or one of our first 3 draft picks.

 

We need both just as badly..... a tight end AND a top receiving target who both offer significantly better scoring efficiency and big play ability (outside of just play design). There's still a chance Egnew develops into that guy, so I wouldn't hastily rule him out considering the lag time often seen in TE development.

 

If the value is there at WR with Keenan Allen as apposed to what's available at pass rusher and safety, you take the WR.
We don't need a full time starting DE; we just need a situational pass rusher/OLB hybrid type who can make an impact in the pass game, and you can often get those guys in the 2nd round, especially through pick 45'ish. FS isn't a glaring enough issue right now to where it's wise to use our 1st round pick on one at the expense of a greater need unless the safety represents too much value to pass up.

Basically, we have enough picks in the first 2 rounds to be able to draft the best talent available at each pick. There's absolutely no reason this draft for us to be pigeon-holed into reaching for a so-called "need pick" to where it costs us talent.

 

I think WR is the only position of need that we can solve in free agency next off season. So as much as I want to draft a WR with our first pick, I would rather see us go after D. Bowe and use our first on a S or DE. Then use both 2nd round picks on S, DE, or TE depending on what we used the 1st on and assuming we get a #1 WR like D.Bowe. The rest of the draft can be used for depth and a kicker as far as I'm concerned. lol.

 

I'd just say to keep in mind the last time Jeff Ireland did this at the receiver position he traded for Brandon Marshall. While Marshall certainly did some good things here, hopefully this time Ireland hits on someone even better. And cheaper in terms of the cost of draft picks; I'd rather sign a guy that's established to go with Tannehill. Just my two cents.

 

That's a fair point, and I definitely agree. There's one draft pick whom I feel could contribute immediately to where we could ignore a costly FA, and that's Keenen Allen, but that would require our 1st rounder..... but I'm like you, if we have a chance to take a proven guy, save our 1st rounder for somewhere else, and have the cap space to do so, I'd probably rather go that route, too..... especially if it's Mike Wallace.

Regarding Marshall, IMO, he would've been great for Tanny, worth the price, and would still be here if it would've allowed him to mentally stay in his "happy place" to where he wouldn't pose any sort of risk to team chemistry, unity, etc.... but we all know that most likely wasn't going to happen.

 

I agree with most of this, especially the bold part. Mike Wallace would be ideal.

The only part I can't get on board with 100% is Keenan Allen, and I'll concede I honestly don't think I've seen him play except for bits and pieces of Cal's game against Ohio State this year. Everyone seems to really like him, I just haven't seen enough of him to form a fair opinion one way or the other.

 

I don't think we will be players in free agency. We have a lot of draft picks. Despite roughly $60 million we have to re-sign Long (I think it will be a split signing bonus with a lot of incentives to protect the team), Sean Smith if he keeps it up is looking at $5/mil a year. Hartline puts in 3-4 more 100 yard games or cracks 1100 yards and he could crack 4.5 mil/year. Plus Starks should get re-signed.

If we dip into free agency it will be Marshall like deals...or finding guys like Starks was when we found him. Young and room for growth.

 

I don't understand why we can't sign a big FA and draft a guy... There are positives and negatives to both scenario's, so why not hedge our bets?

If we sign a FA, there is no guarantee they reproduce the same success they've had elsewhere. This is one of the biggest pitfalls of signing big name F.A. You pay them a boat load and they don't produce with their new team. I think it's a legitimate concern in general, but especially with some of the names in F.A. Dwayne Bowe is the poster child of that concern, IMO (Mike Wallace not far behind).

However, if you draft a guy, he needs to develop. Julio Jones and A.J. Green's are the exception, not the standard. WR's usually transition to the NFL slower than other offensive positions (besides QB). So even we draft a guy, the impact isn't likely to be felt until year 2 or 3. 2013 is a redux of this season and we're still waiting for the future... Not OK. Not with me, anyway.


So why not do both? Why not sign a high caliber F.A. WR, Give him big money upfront while we have a boat load of it available? And in the draft, look for a WR in round 2? Fact is, you don't need to draft WR in round 1. There are plenty of really talented all-pro guys available in round 2. Unless you have a top 5 pick, you're not likely to be drafting an elite prospect anyway (Fitz, Calvin, etc...). By signing a F.A., we allow our offense to potentially take a step forward right away at the start of the '13 season. And by drafting a WR in round 2, there is no hurry to throw him on the field every down. We can take a page out of the New York Giants playbook, and allow the young guys to sit and develop while the starters (F.A., Hartline, Bess) do their thing.

If the F.A. pans out, awesome. If not, at least we're not shooting ourselves in the foot (again) by having no one behind him to replace him. If they both pan out long term, we'll have a very formidable WR core. FA, Hartline, Bess, Rookie. I don't think either or makes much sense for us. Especially if we have the cash.

EDIT: Or trade Jake Long to someone for a WR... Maybe you franchise him and swap rights with any WR who does get franchised. If MW gets the tag, maybe we swap guys, and have Pitt throw us a pick too. They love lineman.

 

I never would of guess you weren't a fan..


"Like a ******ed pet elephant who loves you and crushes you out of affection."

 

If we end up being a team picking in the top 8-10 (which I think we're better than), then I probably wouldn't take him, but at 12 and out he'd grow increasingly more appealing TBH. IMO he's a playmaking possession receiver who's not on the level of Calvin, Fitz, Green, Andre, or 2012 Marshall, but is good enough to be a difference maker, can be used all over the field similarly to Victor Cruz, and looks to be a very good fit for our offense. Just my 2 and a half cents.

 

I'm not sure if I'd want to pay the money for Bowe, but I would for Wallace. what about you?

 

Hey fart head, clear your mailbox. I can't reply to you.

Agree on Wallace and Bowe. Especially since, as Allen pointed out, Bowe sounds like he wants a payday and may slack off a bit after he gets it.

 

I could see that as a very likely possibility with us using one of our 2nd or 3rd rounders on a WR depending on how the value falls, but if the value isn't there, Ireland understandably won't reach for one. Heck, if Keenen Allen represents our best 1st round value and we're unable to trade back, Ireland would take him considering he prefers to stick to his board.

 

Maybe I just didn't clear it b/c I was avoiding you. Ever think of that?

 

Yeah, well. Wish I felt differently.

funny thing is, with Ireland seeming resistant to flashy type stuff and Ross hell bent on it, they may moderate one another's influence nicely. Or end up bringing in the wrong prima donnas.

I DO think more FA WRs will want to play here now that Tannehill is able to facilitate Hartline and Bess having big years. Good WRs have big egos (usually) so I'll bet FA Wrs will say to themselves, "Hell, if that QB can get THAT many yards with WRs who aren't as good as ME, imagine the numbers *I* would put up with him throwin to me!"

 

[video=youtube;DM64Y8ndyG4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM64Y8ndyG4[/video]

 

Yeah, value will be the consideration but I am pretty sure the top five picks will be a combination of WR, CB and pass rush DE. I think Safety dropped in priority since Reshad stepped up. If you have more pressure from a DE and a talented CB our pass defense immediately improves.

And the WR... man, I would love Woods and think he fits what we want, but doubt we pick top ten and doubt we move up to get a WR.