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My fellow Ireland haters, we must convene the grand council and ask for forgiveness.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Vinny Fins, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Sure. Do you think he could publicly say "I don't want to work for Oakland"?
     
  2. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's not true. Did you actually listen to the interview? Ireland called him back but not expressing new interest in Tannehill. He called back to make sure Brandt didn't tell anyone what Ireland said.
     
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I see your point.
     
  4. thisperishedmin

    thisperishedmin Well-Known Member

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    I admire the persistence of those of you who continue to debate these finer points in Miami Dolphin-fan-dom
     
  5. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That is so ridiculously NOT what Gil Brandt implied.
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Did I say it was? It doesn't have to be something Brandt implied. He said Ireland called back to make sure Brandt didn't tell anyone what he said. That's it. You can easily draw the conclusion from there that Ireland didn't want Brandt to tell anyone else what Ireland's feelings were about Tannehill.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Your implication that Jeff Ireland was concerned over whether Gil Brandt had relayed to anyone else what JEFF IRELAND had said in the previous conversation, is pure fiction.
     
  8. DolfanTom

    DolfanTom Livin' and Dyin' w/ Ryan!

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    What I've learned from this is Gil Brandt should be hired a special consultant to Jeff Ireland - Sirrius NFL Radio be damned. If it's true that he is the one who really initially got Ireland to take a second look at Tannehill, then - please, please - for the love of God, Gil, please keep it up! All the other stuff - lying to the media, etc., I can live w/ that, that's what GM's do. I'm just happy - for whatever reason - that we FINALLY have a good QB in the fold, and perhaps a great one!
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And your assumption that Ireland had no interest in Tannehill until Philbin arrived is pure fiction.
     
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  10. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    We are 3-3. The Dolphins have been 3-3 or better in a myriad of seasons with terrible GM/coaching. Why this? Miami has a good coaching staff/QB combo and a surprisingly tough D. Whether this will last and make them a genuine SB contender remains to be seen.

    When the Dolphins make the SB and/or become bonafide, perennial contenders for it - then I will say I was wrong. Otherwise - this is nonsense to say anything at this point. And, we haven't played anyone. It's not like we played the Giants, 49ers, Falcons and Packers on that schedule.
     
  11. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    **** that. I'll wait to eat my crow until after the off season.
     
  12. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    You're just trying to spin it to fit your dislike of Ireland. Of course Ireland was going to originally downplay his feelings toward the player he wanted to draft at #8 and NOT tip his hand toward Brandt during the first call considering Tannehill wasn't being talked about much in January. Ireland's opinion hadn't changed prior to the 2nd call; what changed was Ireland growing fearful that others were starting to grow interested in Tannehill as more buzz was circling his name the closer it got to the draft, so it only makes sense at that point to double check with Brandt about him talking Tannehill up to other teams.

    Are you seriously trying to sell this? I guess Sherman, Zac Taylor, and Tannehill were all one big coincidence, eh. It couldn't be b/c Ireland wanted to set his desired QB of the future up for success. :unsure:

    Right now you remind me of a punter who has his foot grazed during a kick and immediately flops to the turf grabbing his knee. And no, #2 was not debunked.

    It's ironic what you're currently attempting to insinuate about Ireland considering your previous, emphatic stance about the responsibilities of our GM. It appears you're using "I have an ethical issue with #1" b/c it fits an agenda against him. I say that b/c if you truly had an ethical issue with # 1 you wouldn't be intentionally contradicting yourself in deceptive, self-serving fashion. When your argued stance regarding Miami's past woes was that Ireland bears all responsibility b/c his contract was written to give him full and final say, then that's your stance, and any attempt to argue against your original stance makes you appear dishonest and untrustworthy.



    Question: if you were an NFL GM, I take it by your response above that you'd be completely open and honest to the press prior to the draft about your intentions & interests concerning your first round pick, a top 10 pick at that? Open honesty to the press prior to the draft is more important than trying to look after and protect the best interest of your billion dollar team?
     
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  13. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    personally I feel like regardless of our record there are plenty of candidates out there that can do a better job than what Ireland's done but yes, if this team were to make the playoffs then Ireland would have earned the right to be retained.

    6 games in, this means nothing.
     
  14. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Dont you know, Stringer, that when something bad happens it's entirely Ireland's fault b/c his title on the door reads GM (despite Parcells previously being in charge) and b/c final say was written into his contract (despite it being necessary to steal him from Dallas), but when it comes to anything positive, that original stance goes right out the window and Ireland's responsibility (despite now having full control) is downplayed with most of the credit being given to Ross, Philbin, Sherman, the mailman, a bartender at Buffalo Wild Wings, and basically anyone else not named Jeff Ireland. :unsure:
     
  15. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    But I thought your argument was that Ireland is responsible for everything b/c he's the GM and his contract gives him final say? So why are you suddenly changing that seemingly unwavering "belief" when it involves good decisions?
     
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  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I don't see any reason to take Brandt's word over Ireland's. Even if Ireland sounded like he was only lukewarm on Tannehill, according to Brandt. Even considering their long friendship, I know that if I were Ireland, and I was totally on fire to draft Tannehill, I wouldn't acknowledge my true level of interest to anyone. Not even my best friend, wife, family dog, the priest at church during confession...or Gil Brandt. Better to scout with your eyes and ears in the months before the draft, not with your tongue.
     
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  17. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    b-i-n-g-o. Not one logical reason for Ireland to tip his hand to ANYONE outside the organization.
    In this case Ireland played 5 card draw, (real poker), as well as Wild Bill. :yes:

    [video=youtube;KTyGayvUrsg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTyGayvUrsg[/video]
     
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  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That may have been how Brandt interpreted the quote and repeated it several months later, but since no one else heard it, we don't know if that was verbatim what Ireland said.
     
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  19. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    What if McCoy was hired as the head coach and chose a different OC? You assume had that been the case, he would not have drafted Tannehill?
     
  20. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Persistence? You mean stubbornness? :)
     
  21. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    "Uh, I don't know what I see, but I know I smell ****." ;)
     
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Yes absolutely. In January (pre-Sherman) it's a simple fact that Jeff Ireland's opinion of Ryan Tannehill was lukewarm, "nothing special" in his own words, and that means he would not have been on the board for the #8 pick. On January 27th Mike Sherman is hired concurrently with Zac Taylor and Jim Turner, and suddenly Jeff Ireland is all up on Ryan Tannehill. Now, we don't KNOW that the two things are any more than a coincidence. I absolutely accept that. However, given Jeff Ireland's tendency to LIE about exactly when he started to love Ryan Tannehill, I'm inclined to believe the timing is not a coincidence.
     
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  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Except that later, also still before the Draft, he revealed to Gil Brandt how much he loved Ryan Tannehill, so much so that he hoped Gil didn't call any other teams about Tannehill because he didn't want other teams drafting him before we could.

    Or are we supposed to assume Gil Brandt had no idea what Jeff Ireland was trying to communicate to him? Why? Pure convenience to the argument?
     
  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    In January, I do not recall Ireland speaking publicly about his assessment of Tannehill as a pro prospect.
     
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  25. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    I love Gil Brandt. I think he has a brilliant football mind. But he is getting up in age, and I think it'd be pretty funny having this back and forth over what Ireland said if Jeff had actually told Gil he thought Tannehill was "something special" instead of "nothing special", and Gil just misheard him.
     
  26. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    What it sounded to me like was when Brandt called and mentioned Tannehill, Ireland played it close to the vest, since even though Brandt is a friend, he is not employed by the organization and has many friends league wide. Then sometime later, he doesn't say if this was a few hours, a day, week, or month, Jeff calls back and says he hopes Gil didn't tell anyone else, and the latter said no he didn't.
    I'd say from listening to this, there have been some liberal interpretations within this thread of what Gil said or meant.
    As for Gil getting up in age, I'd say that is a non-issue. He sounds as sharp as ever, and was even impressing Bokamper with his keen recall ability from back in the 1970s when Kim was about to enter the draft.
     
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  28. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Nobody has yet given me any valid reason whatsoever why Jeff Ireland would have two conversations with Gil Brandt both prior to the Draft, and in one conversation lie to him about what he feels about Ryan Tannehill, and in the other conversation be perfectly honest with him.

    If someone can give me a rational reason for that I will gladly acknowledge it.

    The only reasons given so far are irrational, argumentative O.J. Simpson-quality defense fluff, such as "he's old" or "he misunderstood", which are both far-fetched at the best of times, and put forth as valid possibilities ONLY because they are convenient to an argument.
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The implication of Gil's story was crystal clear. It's only being manipulated to conveniently conform to an argument. Manipulated is a kind word for it. More like gang raped.

    Take five people that know absolutely nothing of this argument, have them listen to that portion of Gil Brandt's interview, then have them relate back to you what Gil Brandt was trying to say happened between he and Jeff Ireland. All five of them will say Gil was explaining how when he called Ireland in January to tell him how good Tannehill was, Jeff was initially luke warm on Ryan Tannehill, and then they talked later and Jeff had gotten hot and heavy on Tannehill to where he hoped that Brandt didn't call anyone else about Tannehill because he wanted him.

    Liberal interpretations indeed.
     
  30. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    You have no idea how much later that second conversation was. You seem to assume it was months later, but there is no factual basis for that assumption. All Brandt said was "later on." It could have been later that same day or same week. It could have been Ireland holding things close to his vest in the initial call and then calling Brandt back shortly thereafter to try to make sure Brandt wasn't calling others to tell them how good he thought Tannehill was. And Brandt didn't say Ireland called him back to say how much he loved Tannehill at all. All he says is they talked and Ireland asked him who else he talked to about Tannehill and said he hoped Brandt didn't call anybody else.

    I don't know what the actual timeline was. None of us do. But it is entirely plausible and sensible that Ireland may have liked Tannehill very much in January. He gets a call from a guy who spends much of his time talking to other coaches, GMs, and sports radio hosts asking about a guy that Ireland may have liked at a key position. Rather than wax poetic about Tannehill and tell Brandt how much he loves him, Ireland may logically have been very coy with him. "He's alright; nothing special." Shortly thereafter (maybe a few hours or a few days), Ireland may have started worrying that Brandt might be out there blabbing to others about how great Tannehill is and so Ireland might have called him up to see if he was, in fact, yapping about it to others (something he would only be concerned about if Ireland did like Tannehill much more than he let on to Brandt).
     
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  31. Yetanotherfan

    Yetanotherfan Season Ticket Holder

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    I am more inclined to believe this scenario. Its ok for you to admit to having a knee jerk reaction to Ireland this season. As others stated, be glad that it seems improvement as a team is evident.
     
  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Exactly, plus in January there wasn't any real buzz circling Tannehill's name, so it makes perfect sense for Ireland to want to downplay his feelings in order to prevent a buzz from being created (He's not an idiot). Just b/c the press/media asks Ireland a question, it doesn't mean he's obligated to provide an honest answer, especially if it's something draft related, so the assertion about him being a "liar" to the extent of being a character flaw is entirely ridiculous.

    If someone has a moral problem with an NFL GM not being openly forthright with the press regarding information that could potentially hinder the well-being of his team, then perhaps football isn't for them. RevRick, how do you feel about it? In the name of honestly would you want our GM divulging sensitive information to the press like sharing our pre-draft Big Board, disclosing how we plan on using Reggie Bush next week, or our strategy for slowing down Tom Brady?
     
  33. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    regardless of how influential Sherman was, or how much pressure Ireland was under to draft a QB high after whiffing on Peyton and Flynn, Ireland gets some credit for taking this inexperienced kid in the top 10. as the GM it was ultimately his call, even if Sherman had to fully convince him to draft him, he still took the kid, knowing his job was on the line with that pick.

    however, i dont think that just because he hit on Tannehill he now deserves to stay and be given the task of building around RT.

    5 picks in the first 3 rounds, a bunch of cap space, we can drastically improve the team in one offseason, i still don't trust Ireland to make the right moves with all these resources. i'd much rather bring in someone from the Packers front office, i think they'd be a much better fit with Philbin.
     
  34. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    There is still no objective evidence that this lack of trust has any foundation in reality.

    I'm not sure you could find a head coach and a GM more on the same page than what we saw in Hard Knocks this year.

    All this Jeff Ireland stuff still rests at the level of a theoretical belief by people who have no idea what's going on inside the team and are only guessing at things like this.
     
  35. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  36. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're making things up, though. In the second conversation Ireland never said he now likes Tannehill. All Brandt said was Ireland called back to make sure he didn't tell anyone else about the conversation.
     
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  37. PhinsPhan11

    PhinsPhan11 Phins & Philly Sports

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    I haven't totally forgiven him, but he's making some of it up by drafting Tannehill.
     
  38. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    lol okay dude :001_rolleyes:

    i just feel it would strengthen everything, the foundation of the team, the overall structure of the franchise, and the coach and front office relationship, they'd be even more in sync and on the same page given their years of experience working together, and in this league familiarity is everything. sharing the same philosophy in regards to evaluating and drafting players is very important.

    but ultimately it comes down to the simple fact that I believe a John Dorsey or Russ Ball would be an upgrade.
     
  39. King Felix

    King Felix Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lolololol
     
  40. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    .... based on what existing evidence considering neither have spent a day running an organization?

    I could possibly see Dorsey... but Russ Ball? Seriously? You'd want a guy drafting/building a team who has never spent a day as a scout? :unsure:


    Question: If Dorsey were as highly regarded of a Director of College Scouting/"potential GM" as Jeff Ireland was in 2007-08 and Bill Parcells instead hired Dorsey to groom as his heir and future Miami GM, would you currently feel the SAME negative way about Dorsey now as you do about Ireland after Dorsey was tasked with building a team around a terrible HC (Sparano), a worthless dinosaur of an OC (Henning), and doing so while following a blue print for drafting players that wasn't his own? Would you want him fired right now?.... or would you be defending him now that he's out of Parcells' shadow by arguing we finally get to see Dorsey do it HIS way, with his own coaching hires, and using his own blue print for drafting players?
     

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