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What Makes a Franchise QB and Is Tannehill Really One?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by AdamC13, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. muscle979

    muscle979 Season Ticket Holder

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    What Luck wants has nothing to do with it.
     
  2. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    As someone who routinely defended Chad Henne, I know Ryan Tannehill is better because I don't hold my breath on every pass because it might get picked off. It got to the point in 2010/2011 that every pass thrown was a gamble.
     
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  3. Lt Dan

    Lt Dan Season Ticket Holder

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    it's about more than just numbers. end of story
     
  4. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    I find myself annoyed that i have to come here and point this out, as it is fairly obvious, but clearly Chad Henne is a far better QB than Ryan Tannehill.
     
  5. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    This new age of QB is very impressive. All of a sudden we seem to have this influx of great athletes with the potential to become doctors and engineers lacing them up.

    All other traits being similar, the smartest guy in the room has a huge advantage.
     
  6. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    When the numbers are highly correlated with winning, not really. Story continues.
     
  7. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    He's right.
     
  8. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Get rid of a quarter vs Houston and he's got 5 TD's and 3 INT's over 7 games. For a rookie his lack of INT's over the last 7 games while not throwing for Gabbert style yards (110 ;p) is impressive.

    He keeps it up and I won't be surprised if his QBR is somewhere around 86 to finish the season.
     
  9. Agua

    Agua Reality: Try It!

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    What makes a franchise QB? A high levels of the following qualities: 1) Determination / will to win / "killer instinct"; 2) Poise in difficult situations / mental toughness, focus; 3) Pocket presence; 4) field awareness / vision; 5) accuracy; 6) arm strength. Roughly in that order.

    Tanny v. Henne - Tanny clearly has more poise, pocket presence, and field awareness / vision. He has better accuracy, though not by a huge margin (this is something that can be improved, somewhat). Henne had better arm strength, from what I've seen so far.

    Is Tanny a franchise QB? I haven't seen him put the game on his back and win it yet - Determination / will to win. Until he does this and does it consistently, he is not a franchise QB. This may be something he develops as he gains expereience. I sort of anticipate he would develop this, at least to some extent, with experience. So, jury's still out.
     
  10. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    Right now, the problem is he isn't throw many TD's either.
    The Chicago Bears defense has more passing TD's than Ryan Tannehill......
     
  11. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    To me, Tannehill will become a franchise QB when he shows that he can take the team on his back in the closing minutes of games and lead them to victory. He consistently showed while at Texas A&M that he could lead his team to scores in the first half of games. He has shown this same thing as the QB of the Dolphins. What he didn't show at A&M or yet as the Dolphins QB, is that that he can win games by driving his team to a winning TD or FG in the fourth quarter of games.

    The top QB's in the NFL, and therefore the franchise quarterbacks are the QB's who consistently make plays in the fourth quarter of close games to lead their team to victory. Until Tannehill shows that he has this clutch gene, he can merely be considered a decent NFL QB, but certainly not a franchise QB. I'm not saying he can't eventually become a more productive QB in the fourth quarter of games, but until he shows he can take his team on winning drives late in games, he can not be considered a franchise QB in the NFL.
     
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  12. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    Agreed. To me, that's one of the "humps" that a young QB has to get over to be a franchise signal caller. To his credit though, Ryan did drive the team down with a chance to win against the Jets, only to have Carpenter miss.

    Most all young QB's need time to master aspects of their game. Chad Henne held promise, but there were/are numerous parts of his game where he has never gotten over that hump and taken it to the next level. Mark Sanchez has been similar in that there are aspects to his game that have just not improved substantially in the 4 years he's been in the league.

    To his credit, Tannehill has not only gotten over some of those humps in an expedient manner, but he's also shown that he has the makeup to be able to conquer the parts of his game where he needs work. I'd like to see how he does taking a team on his back with a little more experience and perhaps another weapon to use.
     
  13. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    My view of Tannehill is that he is probably the best QB the Dolphins have had since Marino retired. I think he has a strong and accurate arm. He is intelligent and he appears to learn quickly from his mistakes. I also think that he is a player all the others players on the team can rally around, since he appears to have strong leadership qualities. This is something I think Henne was severely lacking, in his time with the Dolphins.

    I was merely answering the question of this thread, "What makes a franchise QB"? To me, closing out games in the fourth QB is what separates the great QB's from the good or mediocre QB's. Tannehill hasn't shown the ability yet to lead his team on a long drive in the closing minutes to win a game. I agree Carpenter missed a long FG in the Jets game, but last week Tannehill had the ball twice in the closing minutes against a sub par Colts defense and he failed to deliver.

    I have seen him grow as a QB during the season and I see no reason that he can't develop into a QB who can consistently lead his team to victories in the fourth quarter of games. Until he does though, I just can't consider him a franchise QB in the NFL.
     
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  14. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Henne never showed any improvement, Tanny has.
    Tanny also has a much better football IQ than Henne does.
     
  15. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    What you're saying is true, but if you're trying to determine whether or not you have a franchise QB you can't take aways his worst game, even if it's the first. Take away any QBs worst game and things look much better.

    But you're right, from that point on he's been much much better. I think it's very reasonable to expect his TD/INT ratio to be on the right side of 1 by the time the season is over.
     
  16. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Yeah, but when you're attempting to project a player's career based off of his first 8 games, numbers should only be a small part of evidence used in that projection.

    Because a rookie QBs first 8 games worth of numbers are almost always going to be below average, no matter who you are. The best comparison in numbers should be to compare only other current QBs rookie year numbers to the player in question (in this case Tannehill and/or Luck). I'm sure their numbers (Tannehill/Luck) stack up quite well with current QB rookie year numbers.

    Also, on any given play, the QB is in charge of doing many things. Protection call, reading defenses, checking out of bad plays, footwork, mobility in the pocket, going through progressions, timing of his throw, accuracy, etc.

    Stats don't tell the story on these items. And Andrew Luck, up until this point is a perfect example. He does the aformentioned things better than most any rookie QB I've ever seen. Basically, that's why the "eye" test and the whole "if you can't see it, I don't know what to tell you" sort of apply in this case.
     
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  17. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Well, I hate to break it to everyone, but the differences between Tanny and Henne are absolutely about what you SEE on the field, not about the stats...yet... Will Tanny be Dan Marino, Part Deux....well that remains to be seen. Will he be better in 3 yrs than Henne has been for us...that also remains to be seen. What we can say is that there is a distinctive difference between Tanny's demeanor and play from what we saw with Henne... Stats are great things but don't tell all the story, only part of it...
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Stats are one part of a QB's game. If we are going to gauge and predict what kind of a QB Tanny is/will be....then its bucket of shrimp stupid to base that on one part of the game.
     
  19. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    IMO the best way to do it would be to compare Tannehill's numbers to those from the first seven games for a large number of quarterbacks who went on to be franchise caliber.

    And there may be things other than numbers that this issue rests on, but unless you can measure those things in a way that removes the possible influence of bias of the person doing the measuring, I'm not interested.

    Nearly everybody here thought Chad Henne was a franchise QB as well, based on the ol' unreliable "eyeball test." That test is garbage IMO.
     
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  20. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    I agree that it's one way to do it. I'll bet Luck and Tannehill's numbers measure up real nice compared to the leagues current top 10 QBs in their rookie years.

    You're gonna have to wait a few years then to measure a young QB by your standards. Because even majority of today's great QBs had very pedestrian-like numbers in their first season or two.
     
  21. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Right, but the vast majority of the ones who turned out bad probably had pedestrian-like numbers in their first season or two, too.

    I will say that when you look here, there is a stat (Win Probability Added) on which Andrew Luck is already among the league leaders.
     
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  22. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    ummm.........playing in the nfl
     
  23. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    I don't know where you are getting that stat from, but it is definitely not accurate. Roethlisberger won 13 games as a rookie. Matt Ryan won 11. So did Joe Flacco.

    Yeah, they were the worst team in the league last year, but they are also a team that averaged more than 12 wins per season over the previous 8 years. Obviously, a lot had to do with losing Manning, but that was largely a fluke season for the Colts (assuming they didn't actually tank it).
     
  24. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Cut him
     
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  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    My bad, read something, Misinterpreted it...They tanked it.
     
  26. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    I didn't read all of this. My response will be unpopular. I think we have waited so long for a QB that everyone is all over the jock strap of anyone who shows a glimmer of ability to play the position. I think Tanny has upside. I also think he misses a lot of open targets and has no ability to throw a receiver open. Matt Moore would have beat Indy even with our horrid coverage.
     
  27. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    As you pointed out, the Colts averaged 12 wins a season over 8 years. All of a sudden their starting QB gets hurt and they become the worst team in the NFL. While I think the loss of Manning certainly made them a worse team last year. I have absolutely no doubt that after they started the season poorly, they tanked the rest of the season because they wanted the first pick in the draft.

    The Colts organization saw when they draft Manning, how getting a true franchise QB can turn an entire team around in a very short period of time. Luck was said to be the best QB in the draft since Manning was drafted by the Colts. They may not have started the 2011 season with the idea of getting the first pick, but once they it got into the latter part of the season and they had a chance to get Luck, I feel they were more concerned with doing what was necessary to draft Luck. Wins became something they had no interest in.

    I also believe that the vast majority of the fans of the Colts were happy to see the Colts with the worst record in the NFL last year, because they knew this meant they were set with another franchise QB for another 12-15 years.
     
  28. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    This happened with Henne as well, and we know the outcome.
     
  29. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I think you are over stating the faith people had in Chad Henne.

    I know for myself Henne gave me hope. There were plenty of people on this board had a smaller opinion of Henne than I did.
     
  30. BayAreaFinFan

    BayAreaFinFan D'oh Club Member

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    i agree tanny has missed some open targets but I have seen him throw recievers open multiple times this year.
     
  31. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Good points. On the flip side, in 9 games only 2 of those games has Tannehill had a higher QB rating than the team's defensive QB rating for the season.

    Houston = 75.4 (opposing QBs overall QB rating) RT = 39.0
    Oakland = 96.7 RT = 91.0
    NY Jets = 76.5 RT = 50.2
    Arizona = 79.1 RT = 86.5
    Cincy = 99.0 RT = 92.3
    Rams = 87.8 RT = 112.0
    NY Jets = 76.5 RT = 50.4
    Indy = 96.5 RT = 90.9
    Titans = 108.4 RT = 42.4

    Team defensive QB rating's are heading into today's games.

    So only against the Cardinals and Rams (which Tannehill was terrific imo) did Tannehill play better (QB rating wise) than the average against those teams. The other 7 games he played below the average opponent. And against the Cardinals a late interception and fumble led to Cardinals OT victory.
     
  32. huck1974

    huck1974 FU Gene Steratore

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    Designed stop routes?

    Can I borrow your glasses?
     
  33. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Of course I'm saying this sarcastically, but this time last year, wasn't there alot of chanting "Suck for Luck"? Why are we winning meaningless games? It's stupid to ttry and keep winning, etc...?

    I wonder when the chanting "Lose for Landry" will begin.
     
  34. jsizzle

    jsizzle Banned

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    lmfao!!!!
     
  35. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Tanny had his worst game since the playing the Texans, if he wants to be great he will have to show the ability to bounce back.

    I suspect the league has caught up to Sherman's 5 yd come back route bit, it is on him to push the ball down the field or Tannehill will not have developed as much as he should have.

    IMO, Thill can throw guys open and make all of the throws, but when you ask him to throw the ball less than 10 yds from the LoS bad things are going to happen eventually.
     
  36. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Suck for Luck started because Luck is an Elite QB prospect. Already Elite as a rookie. Landry is a bumb. No one wants to lose for him. As for Luck, You wish we had him. Don't lie.
     
  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jim Irsay suck for luck real nice.
     
  38. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    Never, because Landry Jones sucks and the Dolphins just drafted a QB #8.
     
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  39. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Landry Jones is horrible, absolutely horrible.
     
  40. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    I was thinking the same thing today. We didn't see many 15+ yard throws at all; now whether that is a product of our WRs not being able to seperate or the play calling remains to be seen.

    Another thing I have wondered is why Tannehill hasn't used his speed to take off down the field yet. He is a pretty damn good athlete, but I have yet to see him really take off running. Why not open the field up a little more with his legs? If Andrew Luck can do it so can Tannehill.
     

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