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Tony Boselli on Jake Long

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Paul 13, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. Bofin

    Bofin Member

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    i just hope boselli is correct with his analysis and big jakes' struggles are easy to fix. i am worried that he is physically damaged and can never regain his dominant form,,,, and we will pay him big $$ cause he is jeff irelands centerpiece for drafting.
     
  2. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    see my previous post.

    do I need to read it to you? 39th & 48th rated prospects overall, NOT TOP 3 & TOP 15. Obviously something happened to improve them a dramatic 36 and 33 spots considering the implication of of becoming a top 3 & top 15 draft prospect.

    let me quote part of this link for you that refers directly to Joeckel & Matthews' rating:
    For crap sake, where the heck do you get a translation from the above as "guaranteed top 5 & top 15 NFL pick"?! (especially the top 300 prospects part, which could be good for 7th round draft status if you do the math of 7 rounds x 32 picks per round + compensation picks.

    Convenient of you to skip the definition of the 6.1 rating category which Joeckel & Matthews were listed NOT in. Let me quote that one for you:
    Not even the 6.1 category says "guaranteed top 3 pick & guaranteed top 20 pick, especially as an offensive linemen. Just f'n admit it, Joeckel & Matthews are higher rated pro prospects than they were high school recruits after being coached by Turner.


    1st rounder Anthony Castanzo (2 star). 1st rounder Gosder Cherilus (3 star, 35th ranked tackle recruit. 35th best college prospect isn't good enough to get drafted, let alone the first round). How about the 55th rated guard becoming the 3rd center drafted? All in the past 6 years.


    uhh, you're implying a new offensive system with a new blocking scheme has nothing to do with it?
    Yeah, you're right---- Turner is the scapegoat for our offensive struggles, not the adjustment to a new system & blocking scheme, rookie right tackle woes, mediocre talent at WR, and some rookie QB ups & downs. It's all the oline coach's fault.
     
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  3. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    You're right, coaching 4 first rounders the past 6 years who became better than their recruiting status indicated doesn't prove crap. yeah ok. :unsure:

    it's not rocket science. Here's your link: www.Google.com..... but in case that's too difficult for you:
    Here's the first one:
    ....and here's the ESPN link that has Lewis as the #23 guard: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/school/_/id/245/class/2009

    You can flip through that and see they type of talent Turner had to work with prior to the 2010 recruiting class (keep in mind his previously highest rated lineman, Lucas Patterson, was converted to DE).

    right, it's much better to intentionally dismiss 4 first round linemen in 6 years. :wink2:
     
  4. Laces Out

    Laces Out Well-Known Member

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    Research those guys a little deeper. Costanzo had 3 years under another coaches guidance. Cherilus had 4(RS year included).

    The low round aTm players have zero years under Turners excellent guidance.

    The recent aTm players would have been successful with a nutless monkey coaching them. BUT, I will play along again, and still say 3 skilled guys doesn't make a 20 year career successful, nor does it make you a good coach. It's akin to sitting down at a slot machine and hitting a jackpot. Does that make you good at playing slot machines, or were you in the right place at the time?

    Last question, do Sherman and Zac Taylor get credit for Johnny Football if he wins the Heisman and is AA? They coached him for a year after all. :shifty:
     
  5. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Of course they'd get some credit for his development. What exactly do you think happens when the coach leaves, a reset button is hit on the player and he starts over from scratch with previously acquired coaching & development from that coaching wiped clean?

    The less respected recruits, Castonzo & Cherilus, were coached by Tuner, period.
    Respectfully, how do you conclude that 1 year spent with a coach has minimal impact on a player's development? A year can mean a lot, especially if the coach is any good..... and, considering how little time it's taken Joeckel & Matthews to become 1st round draft picks (as true juniors which is freakin' amazing), how quickly Lewis made an impact after transferring to guard, and considering the 2 & 3 star recruits turned first rounders, Castonzo & Cherilus, the likelihood of Turner being a great coach and integral contributing reason for their success is pretty high.

    On top of that, you have 1st rounder Cherilus who didn't have an accolade to his name prior to his 2007 senior year with Turner, the same 2007 season that featured a 2 star offensive tackle Castanzo earning Freshman All American honors. One could surmise that Turner's coaching was a big reason for Castonzo's sophomore move to left tackle and in charge of protecting Matt Ryan's blind side where he became a Sophomore All American 1st Team. Someone obviously laid that foundation.
     
  6. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    PS: What's interesting is the further removed Castonzo was from Turner's coaching the less impressive his accolades became as he was only All ACC as a junior & senior (no more All American).
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Did Sherman recruit Manzeil?
     
  8. Laces Out

    Laces Out Well-Known Member

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    But yet he was still a first rounder. Curious indeed
     
  9. Laces Out

    Laces Out Well-Known Member

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    Yep, lead was Tom Rossley.
     
  10. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I believe Kevin Sumlin had the most to do with it.
     
  11. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Here's a quote from a TAMU forum about Turner:
    Considering who Jake Matthews' father is, I'm guessing there's some worth to this post as his HOF dad, unlike most parents, likely had a good idea about where his son would get the best coaching.
     
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  12. Laces Out

    Laces Out Well-Known Member

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    Lmao, this is ridiculous. Our super OL coach gets a pass on ****ing up an All Pro LT due to a different system, but our OC gets credit for a kid he recruited to college to play in a pro system who is now running a spread? Not sure if serious.....

    Sure....why not? When Manziel wins the Heisman, the Dolphins better bump Sherman's pay, wouldn't want another team to hire him right out from under us. :shifty:


    Again, break it down one by one.

    Cherilus: had 4 years learning from someone else. Started 37 games prior to Turner's arrival

    Costanzo: All ACC freshman team. That was his one year with turner.

    Matthews was born a first rounder

    Joeckel was a top prospect in HS. Even Barney Cotton couldn't mess him up.




    Cherilus was a 2nd team preseason All ACC according to Scout

    Costanzo wasn't a freshman AA, he was named to the Freshman All ACC team, nor was he Sophomore AA. Was AA honorable mention his Junior season, 2 years after super OL coach had been gone.

    http://www.bceagles.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/castonzo_anthony01.html

    But by all means keep giving Turner credit for things he was in no way responsible for
     
  13. Laces Out

    Laces Out Well-Known Member

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    Lol you realize that poster is talking for himself and not the Matthews family, and that Sherman was the draw and not Turner, right?????
     
  14. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    1. So you disagree that the Matthews family wouldn't have an idea of where their son would receive the best coaching?
    2. Remind me again what position their son plays and which coach is most integral in developing that position.

    Convenient of you to ignore the other part of that post.
     
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  15. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    :jt0323:
     
  16. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    If it's after the snap, what real difference does it make...If a DL is paying attention to Jake's leg snap, it'll give Jake the time needed to adjust to whatever play is called and whatever move the DL makes to get past him. Jake has tendencies, like every player does and elite defensive players will pick up those tendencies. Jake is also aware of his weakness against speed rushers. This isn't something that just started with him, as you said...why then is it an issue now and wasn't three years ago ?? Weakness or not, there are only a couple of LTs that are as good or better than Jake...
     
  17. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    More idiocy. So you're saying our veteran LT, much experienced in the game, is being affected by Turner, but a significantly less experienced college or prior high school kid isn't influenced by his coaching at all?.... and you're saying Jim one-year-in-Miami Turner should be blamed for Jake's continued lack of elite play (which actually dates back to at least last season) yet also say Sherman & Taylor deserve no credit for helping develop Manziel? haha. Contradict yourself much do you? :lol:

    Sounds good. Let's do that.
    As did Jake Long. <using your double-standard based argument against you>
    Hmph, so it's possible Cherilus might've never developed into a 1st round pick if not for his senior season with Turner, considering Cherilus previously couldn't even muster up an ACC honorable mention.
    Yup, one year of Turner taking a 2 star high school kid and turning him into a freshman All American. :wink2:
    I guess Walter Payton's son deserves a free pass into Canton, too, eh? lol

    ....and WTH do you think #1 overall pick Jake Long was?.... Wait, but I thought you said top prospects "can't be messed up". LOL. You just keep flopping all over the place.

    Tell me, if each year's 6th & 7th best offensive tackles are typically drafted in the mid 2nd to 3rd round, how do you come up with the 6th & 7th rated tackle prospect suddenly = "born first rounder" or potential #1 overall pick? Your math ability is lacking.

    Face it bro, Turner's BC & TAMU linemen didn't underperform. They didn't even perform on par with their recruit status. They OVER-PERFORMED their original recruit status, and you've done doodie to legitimately argue this.
    yeah, in 2007, with Jim Turner. Like I said, prior to Turner he hadn't received any accolades.
    Wrong. Castonzo was Freshman All-American by the Football Writers Association of America.... and 1st Team Sophomore All American by College Football News. So now what's your excuse for this 2 star recruit turned freshman AA? I'd really love to hear it.

    Oh, and LOL at you now downplaying All ACC honors after previously tooting the horn of preseason mumbo jumbo from Scout. :lol:
     
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  18. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Time for your defeat. Might wanna sit down for this.
    Ok, here it is: If Turner's coaching impact on his previous 1st round offensive tackles is as minimal as you're trying to make it seem then why the hell are you arguing Turner is responsible for messing up the veteran Jake? :lol:

    Your argument is full on incongruous. Seriously, look at what you're saying: "Turner couldn't have possibly had an affect on any of those other guys but he affected Jake Long though." LOL.

    While your wound is open, what position did Turner's 4 past & future 1st round linemen play? Oh, that's right, TACKLE. During the past 6 years, 4 of his tackles were or will be drafted higher than their initial recruiting status suggests but apparently, according to you, Turner can't coach offensive tackles.
     
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  19. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    No need to call any further witnesses your honor.
     
  20. Laces Out

    Laces Out Well-Known Member

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    The Matthews family didn't say that though. The poster was talking about Sherman. Where do you read Turner's name in that post? Convenient of you to miss that and claim the post is about Turner because they mention OL.
     
  21. Laces Out

    Laces Out Well-Known Member

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    sure....why not?

    And it is equally possible that it would have happened without Jim Turner as well.

    But he wasn't an AA as a Freshman. He was HONORABLE MENTION his Junior year.

    From his profile on BCs website

     
  22. Laces Out

    Laces Out Well-Known Member

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    My logic? I never raised Jake Long as a point. The point was raised that as a coach you can consider success stories yours after a year of working with then, but not failures? You can't have it both ways. Either they are all on your overall record, or none. That's called cherry picking no matter how you look at it.

    Cherilus is one. I'll give you that one.

    Costanzo counts for the coaches following Turner, as they had 3 years to work with him.

    His other two tackles stock went up because they went to the SEC, not so much his expert tutelage.
     
  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Well don't you feel like a dummy now after tonight's Heisman ceremony. :lol: :tongue2:
     
  24. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    [​IMG]

    F*** my a**! Jake has turned into a giant p***y...


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    Miami's primaddona consciousness overwhelmed that poor meathead...


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    He'd need to run a f****n' Iditarod by himself just to get his balls back at this point...


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    Damnit! Why do gay guys always have hot wives!?!













    This message approved by:

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    [​IMG]

    Okay, Technically, I guess, you'd be f****n' this guy's a**...


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    But to be honest, it looks like he's receiving anal sex half the time anyway...


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  26. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Does he? Wouldn't a former OL coach like Philbin be able to spot a coach who was also good at coaching the OL or vise versa?

    Two of Turner's former pupils at TAMU are considered likely high 1st round draft picks in 2013. Does he get any credit for their development? Maybe not all that much with Matthews. He was probably being groomed to play OL while he was still suckling on his momma's teat.
     
  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Merely posting a resume' indicates nothing as for whether or not a coach sucks.
     
  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    As is Sherman. If Turner weren't any good, do you think Sherman would have recommended him to Philbin?
     
  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Good point. I guess Bruce knows a thing or two about OL coaching. If he thought Turner wasn't a good one to have working with his son, he would have gotten Jake to go to another school.
     
  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That is merely your AssUmption that Turner did anything coaching wise to cause Long to regress.
     
  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Of course not. Why should perhaps the best all around OL to ever play in the NFL have any clue where his own kid would get the best coaching? :wink2:
     

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