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Miami Dolphins = Slow

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by dolfan22, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I like to listen to the radio interviews as many of you do , for those that don't I would suggest listening to the WQAM interview with Michael Lombardi and Joe Rose from this week.

    http://wqam.com/interviews

    Specifically he mentioned that the back seven are slow , and when he said that Joe Rose asked if he spoke with Mike Mayock . Lombardi said no he actually doesn't speak with him at all ( not in a bad way I don't believe ) , and Rose said the reason he asked is that he was having a beer with Mayock and he told Joe that Miami is very stout up front but to slow in the back seven and he found it interesting/noticeable that both have come to that conclusion.

    Lombardi also mentions that speed creates turnovers and that is a big reason Miami has not been doing that. This goes back several years , I never felt the speed Miami has was up to required level to compete. I suppose it is a building process with the new coach , but yet again we are not fast enough , so this does fall to the way the team has been built imo.

    Michael Lombardi also reviews where the Dolphins are and what areas they need to address, some may feel he is harsh I feel he is unbiased.

    Two independent football guys have the same evaluation and one told his buddy over beers , pretty indicative if you ask me.
     
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  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think we might be overall slow in the front seven, not the back 7..

    Starks, Odrick, Paul, MCD, Randall, their big, but as a group, on the slower side.
     
  3. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

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    It seems like the two that are making the most plays are the two slowest. Smith and Jones.
     
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  4. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I wouldn't say they are slow. They aren't fast though.
     
  5. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    If you aren't fast as a team , you are too slow , imo.
     
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  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Their slow to react, and when they do react quickly, nobody can fu$)&n catch the ball.
     
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  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Chris Clemons and Nolan Carroll are fast.
     
  8. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Smith and Jones Forever is a great song , whoever knows it without google gets a beer ( or two ).
     
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  9. firedan

    firedan Well-Known Member

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    I never thought our DB's were slow but at times they appear out of position and unsure of responcibilities.They have been slow to learn how to catch a football though.
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think we need to figure out how to build this defense to compete with the athletic playmaking Qb..The giants have big linebackers playin Dline and their winning superbowls.
     
  11. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Playmakers across the board.
     
  12. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Its an interesting theory but their 40 times would say otherwise:

    Chris Clemons - 4.33
    Sean Smith - 4.50
    Rashad Jones - 4.51
    Nolan Carrol - 4.43

    Smith's time is a bit on the slow side for a CB but Clemons time is sick for a safety. I think our secondary just doesn't play agressive enough.
     
  13. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The problem with the secondary is that they don't play instinctually enough IMO. Sean Smith looks too concerned with technique and staying in position that he doesn't make enough plays on the ball.
     
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  14. patsfanNH

    patsfanNH New Member

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    I have heard a few people say 40 times are nice, but dont show their true speed. In other words you run a 4.2 but you cant turn or adjust at top speed. That MAY be what they mean by slow.
     
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  15. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    Our DBs are not so slow as they just lack any instincts. Now, our offense? They're SLOW (outside of Bush).
     
  16. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.
     
  17. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    If you have slow or poor instincts your playing speed is slow ,if you react slowly , you are slow , if you play slow... well you are slow.
     
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  18. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not exactly speed they are referring to when they say slow. It's slow to recognize, read, and react. Guys are just never in the right position, on time. It's got nothing to do with speed, its just that they arent recognizing, and reading the play fast enough to get there to create that turnover. We've seen Tannehill this year be slow to react, and recognize on passing plays, it usually leads to a pick, or near pick. We've also seen defensive players make ridiculous plays against us in the passing game, usually because they're reading the QB, they know whats coming, they trust their instincts, and they react to it and get themselves in position to make a play. Our guys don't do that. How many times have we screamed at Nolan Carrol this year to turn around so he can make a play. Chances are, he's not turning around, because his head is going a million miles an hour about getting himself back into position to make a play, that he didn't react to properly in the first place. Same goes for Clemons. Jones typically reacts very very well against the run, he's gotten better against the pass. Misi, fairly decent against the run, most of the time lost in coverage. It's like they're overthinking what they see, and if you overthink, you don't react, and you're beat.

    Anyways, yeah, its not really relating to speed that they are referring to, its the instincts, reactions, and recognition of what's going on in front of them, and reading their keys. They're too slow. Whether that's a players issue, or a scheme issue, we don't know.
     
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  19. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    It's what we thought it would be all along with Smith.
    The brain isn't the issue with his instinct. Size and flexibility are his limitations.
    I like Sean but he does play stiff, especially in the hips.
     
  20. bakedmatt

    bakedmatt Well-Known Member

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    I agree with that. If that's what he meant and I missed it it's because I didn't really read.
     
  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    This I agree with and it's coupled with poor ball skills moreso than slow foot speed
     
  22. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    That's the problem IMO. If you have instincts, you get a jump on the play that makes up for a deficit in speed. I'm sure Ed Reed couldn't beat Chris Clemons in a straight-line footrace, but boy does he make a lot more plays.
     
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  23. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I could see people say Miami's front seven is slow. Which is why they have problems with athletic QBs and shifty runningbacks.
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    They're correct. The fastest players relative to position norms in the back seven (Nolan Carroll, Chris Clemons) don't play fast at all. Before he got hurt, Richard Marshall was a guy who couldn't be trusted to stay with a receiver vertically.

    Sean Smith is among the slowest corners you'll find in the NFL, excluding corners that are playing in a two scheme that protects them at all times. Reshad Jones isn't a fast safety, just aggressive in run support. Koa Misi is slow for a linebacker, runs in the mid 4.7's I believe. Karlos Dansby is a great athlete for his size, but you have to keep in mind that any talk about what a great athlete Dansby is always is an equation with a denominator, "for his size". Which means on an absolute level, he's really just got average speed.

    But give the front office some credit. Version 2.0 of this linebackers unit is a lot faster than Version 1.0, if still not necessarily fast overall.
     
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  25. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    I think it would be more accurate to say that the Dolphins are slow to react .Even though we won the Seahawks game I couldnt help observing that we looked slow against them
     
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  26. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    Memo to Ireland. Find playmakers in secondary. There. Done.
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Matt Elam or Phillip Thomas would make plays in the secondary. It ought to be consideration especially when you consider Miami is currently slotted #14 and guys like Manti Te'o and Bjoern Werner will probably be off the board by that pick.

    I think those two safeties are the best I've seen come down the pipe since the Eric Berry/Earl Thomas duo.

    David Amerson deserves mention. He's not a corner in my opinion but he might be worth salvaging as a safety. Question is do you really want to be taking a guy making a position switch that high. Total question mark.
     
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  28. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bingo

    I know its semantics but saying the problem is that we are slow in the secondary would imply that we need faster players when in fact we need more instinctual players.
     
  29. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    It's not necessarily an either/or.

    Get a guy who has burst, change of direction quickness, closing speed (Vontae) AND straight line speed... AND plays instinctually, has a feel for the game, plays fast and knows his coverages inside-out.

    Very few of those guys out there. Revis, etc.

    Now, you can also get an average-quick guy with AMAZING instincts (Zach Thomas) or an AMAZINGLY quick guy with average instincts (can't think of one)

    What you can't do is get a bunch of guys with average speed and average instincts. Then you end up with our secondary.

    Scheme is part of it too. I feel like Man cover-heavy schemes rely more on the freakishly fast and quick change-of-direction corners with average instincts, and zone coverage-heavy schemes require guys who have amazing instincts despite average speed and quicks (Antoine Winfield).

    I feel like Coyle runs mostly zone... but I haven't actually sat down and looked specifically at the percentages. Knowing that would dictate which type of player to target.
     
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  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    We also need faster players, IMO.
     
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  31. dolfan22

    dolfan22 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I remember when ZT was a young player and he was asked how he developed or why he had such good instincts , he said by always studying the game. Replaying in his head as kid , watching film as a pro , not really any different .... improved anticipation by preperation.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Zach Thomas is probably the most notable exception in the modern (post-90's) era of football when it comes to that. That's one reason I think he should be hall of fame bound.
     
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  33. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I'm a big Elam fan and would love to see him paired with Jones at S.
     
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  34. Califin

    Califin Well-Known Member

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    slow [sloh] adjective
    10. lacking promptness or immediacy: a slow answer

    As it applies to their or intuititive, or game awareness.
     
  35. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    Nolan Carroll is so fast that he gets the most penalties in the quickest amount of time.:pity:
     
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  36. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    Why do we need speed in the back we only play the Pats twice a year? Well there are 14 other games to deal with also.
     
  37. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    Yes, our back 7 is not slow by any means. Dansby ran a sub 4.6 40 coming out. That's fast for any LB, regardless of size. Same for Burnett , who also ran under 4.6. Clemons had one of the fastest 40 times for a safety ever. Reshad Jones, at 4.50 is about average for a safety and he does not play slow. Nolan Carroll runs a 4.4 and certainly is not slow. At 4.5, Sean Smith is a little slower than average for a CB, but he's also a whole lot bigger. He's about as fast, or faster, than the other jumbo CBs like Brandon Browner (4.63), Richard Sherman (4.54), Asomugha (4.45), Cromartie (4.47), etc.

    If you are trying to say our DBs are slow to react, say that. It's not hard. They aren't slow and don't lack speed.
     
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  38. MAFishFan

    MAFishFan Team Tannehill

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    run as fast as you want, when the ball hits you in the hands repeatedly and you drop it, i could care less how fast you are
     
  39. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    None of those guys are fast. None.

    A team should have at least SOME fast guys, no? No one is saying they should ALL be fast, but we have z-e-r-o guys who could keep up with a Wallace, or pick any other speedster.

    4.5 is NOT fast.

    And sorry, but in the NFL, if you aren;t fast, you're slow. I don;t care if he scored a TD because you were five yards behind him as you chased him the length of the field or 15 yards behind... if you can't run with the fastest offensive players, they will burn you and you will not catch them.

    Slow is more about mathematical inequality. Are your DB's speed < Their WRs speed. If so, you will be in trouble.

    And don't even try the 'we don;t have WRs burn us deep, over the top... because D cor-ordinators with slow *** DBs give the fast WRs a bigger cushion to avoid getting burned. Meaning, slow DBs also give up more underneath stuff, since they have to sit back off the line of scrimmage for fear of being beaten deep. Damned domino effect.

    Also, that makes it harder to get sacks.
     
  40. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    But we won't have the chance because everyone wants to toss Jake Long so fast without realizing this team would just turn around and drop another 1st rounder on a LT. Unless were somehow lucky enough to find a viable LT in free agency.

    This is why I want to give Jake another year to sort things out (or another year to realize he's not a $10 million a year tackle anymore). I'd hate to see this team pigeon holed into having to take another high lineman in the draft to fill that hole. Especially when we could use playmakers at WR/TE and the secondary.
     

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