What Would the Dolphins' Record Be?

This only shows how poorly the Dolphins have done in rebuilding this entire team since 2008. The Falcons had the third round draft pick in 2008. They were one of the worst teams in the NFL in 2007, along with the Dolphins. They hired a new GM and HC, just as the Dolphins did after the 2007 season.

Their GM selected the best QB in the draft in 2008, not a LT. He has rebuilt the overall talent on the roster and the Falcons have become one of the most talented teams in the NFL over the past five years. The Dolphins on the other hand have gone from terrible to mediocre over this same time period.

Too bad the Dolphins didn't hire a quality GM in 2008. Perhaps we would have a team with similar talent to the Falcons, instead of talent on the same level as the Bills and Jets.

 

nothing new here, let's move on.
and one tweak of your logic. The Falcons record was as bad as ours not because they were completely devoid of talent like we were, they had that record because they invested a 100 million dollars in Michael Vick and he went to jail. they were a playoff team.

 

False. But it's good to at least see that some of the 'Jake Long over Matt Ryan was the right choice' people haven't given up.

 

Exactly.
Move on is exactly what we need to do.

 

Perhaps you haven't looked at the Falcons roster. If you did, you would notice that the vast majority of the offensive and defensive starting units are players who have been added to the roster since the new GM took over in 2008. Their GM has put together a more talented team, even though the Dolphins have have higher draft picks over the the past five years.

Their GM also moved up to take a pro bowl caliber receiver in, Julio Jones, instead of moving down to take two players with mediocre talent. He was smart enough five years ago to know that you build an offense around your QB, not your RT.

The Falcons and their GM have done a far superior job over the last five years, in comparison to what the Dolphins and Ireland did over this same period of time. All you have to do is look at the won-loss records of the two teams to clearly see this. Logic clearly shows that a team with a GM who knows what he is doing can turn his team around in a short period of time. A GM who doesn't understand how to build a winning team can merely get his team to mediocre after five years.

Personally I prefer a GM who knows how to draft and sign talent which turns the team into a winning organization. I have had my fill of mediocre.

 

This is where the Ireland criticism becomes unbearable..you can't put blame on a man when you know damn well who was making picks for this franchise..

Parcells didn't know what he was doing from a personnel standpoint.

 

I think that something that should be pointed out is that the falcons are also one of the oldest teams in the league meaning that they may be peaking now, while the dolphins have a year or two to catch up to them in that department.

 

We're what, 3 plays away from being 8-3? I'd say Roddy, Julio, a HOF TE, and a more solidified Oline might've left those 3 plays irrelevant. It's very much conceivable that we're a 10-6 team with them.

 

I'll bite. I'd say Henne would still be here.

*runs n hides*

 

Shou, you should work in packaged goods. Seriously. It is an incredible, and very profitable, talent to be able to take content/a product and repackage it to sell to consumers over-and-over in a dozens of different ways.

LOL. I've never seen someone so good at re-packaging the issue they care about into so many different-looking threads, with the same core content.

I am NOT griping, btw. I think it's a worthwhile discussion. But I run my own small biz and I'm in awe of how well you re-offer the same stuff in a new, fresh way each time.

My answer to your poll question, btw, is around 9 wins. I think it makes a difference, but then... Tannehill is still a rookie, so it wouldn't vault us to over ten wins or anything. A team goes as its QB goes. I'd love to see the average QBR for teams that make the playoffs, and look for exceptions. Like, has a team ever made the playoffs (or won a Superbowl) with a QB whose rating was in the low 70's for the season? And throughout the playoffs?

 

10 or 11 win team I'm guessing.

 

The Falcons were 11-5 in 2008, without Julio Jones and Tony Gonzalez. So, I'd expect Tannehill this season with the current Falcons offense, to do at least that well. Unless one were to think that Ryan is that much better than Tannehill, or the 2008 Falcons defense was a lot better than the current Miami defense, which they were not, statistically speaking.

 

Not going to vote on your own poll?

 

I agree with you on a lot of topics on this forum. On this issue, we just don't see eye to eye. Ireland has been the GM since 2008. While he should get credit for the good players drafted and signed since that time, he should also have to take responsibility for all the bad picks and the terrible free agent signings over this time period.

Parcells brought Ireland to the Dolphins because Ireland was suppose to be a great talent scout. I just don't believe that Parcells took any player he wanted and didn't listen to his GM at all.
I agree Parcells was not good at selecting personnel. This included the head coach and the GM he selected when he took over as the teams head of football operations.

If Ireland wasn't part of the selection process of players when Parcells was here? What exactly was his job function then? Whatever he was doing during the Parcell years, if it wasn't helping to scout talent, he needs to go back to that job. Because I just don't think he has what it takes to rebuild this organization into a legitimate playoff contender.

 

Ross was the person responsible for the Dolphins drafting a QB in the first round. He made it clear after last season that he expected the Dolphins to upgrade at that position. When Manning went to the Broncos, I am sure he told Ireland that he expected the Dolphins first round pick to be a QB.

Of course Ireland did as he was told. He just decided to trade the teams best WR for basically nothing, therefore leaving his rookie QB with no #1 WR on the team. If not for Ross, Ireland would have probably traded down in the first round and selected another mediocre offensive or defensive lineman.

If Ireland really wanted to upgrade the QB position with a franchise QB. He would have given the Rams three first round draft picks and whatever else it took to move up and draft RG3. Because RG3 and Luck were the only true franchise QB's in the 2012 draft. Tannehill is an upgrade over the QB's the Dolphins have had in recent years, but he is no Luck or RG3 and I don't think he ever will be.

I expect RG3 and Luck to be franchise QB's for over a decade. Tannehill will probably be a good, but never great QB in the NFL.

 

you need to read the post again, nowhere did I say that the Falcons GM didn't outdraft our GM since that draft.
nowhere did I say I wouldn't rather have their GM. nowhere did I say I'm defending Long over Ryan.
my post was about the need to trade down to get two starters instead of keeping that 1st pick.
Trading up for Jones worked well only because they already had a loaded roster. You forget that we had a stud WR last season in Marshall and he only made a marginal difference because we had a crappy supporting cast.

 

I think its better to go into the draft with a better record. I can't tell you how many times a coveted a player that went in the latter half near the end of each round. I think there is more play makers in that part of the draft, as opposed to where we normally draft where players are either great or a bust.

 

Exactly! What else would he have been doing? Are we to believe all Ireland did while Tuna was there was fetch the coffee and donuts?

 

What would the record be if Conner Barth was the kicker?

 

pretty depressing to see how our team was built over the last 5 years in comparison to Atlanta.

 

You don't get the major point. Any talent advisory input from Ireland was still based on meeting Parcells' player blueprint, Parcells' team blueprint, Parcells' failed offensive scheme headed by Henning, and Parcells' failed Head Coach responsible for running the team and ultimately developing its players [which our original coaching staff seemed piss poor at]. The onus is on Parcells. Furthermore, it's not accurate nor fair to say Ireland was a failure under Parcells when the blueprint, system, and coaching staff instilled & hired by Parcells were inherently flawed. Ireland might've had input, but don't confuse input with complete freedom to pick and choose players he wants based on the system & blueprint he would've preferred to run if it the team were his. Ireland isn't a Parcells' disciple, and it's obvious his blueprint, scheme preference, and draft philosophy are vastly different than Parcells', so I'm not sure why you think this team would've looked the exact same if Ireland were afforded the ability to do it his way from day 1. If anything, it could be argued that Parcells misused Ireland and subjected him to an unfair bad rap by having Jeff follow Bill's outdated blueprint for 3 freakin years.

Analogously speaking, Parcells chose the menu; Ireland helped find the ingredients.
Just b/c Ireland helped with the ingredients it doesn't mean they'd be the same ingredients chosen if it were his own menu [which he's proven to be the case as he he's quickly swapped out the old menu for a new one]. Secondly, if it's a crappy, bland menu to begin with, the ingredients will be limited [just as they were with Parcells' main dish of Dookie ala Henning].

 

fixed

 

No, he was handed a shopping list for s**t sandwich and asked to help round up its ingredients.

 

That's probably the most polite way to put it w/o getting banned, AE; unfortunately the non-banned way is the least accurately depicted.

 

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Ahh, so Ireland "did what he was told" now that he's actually in charge, but when Parcells was in charge you blame Ireland for the decisions made? (words aren't needed to describe this. The headscratch smiley does just fine)

..... or just draft a franchise QB w/o having to sacrifice valuable first round picks and "whatever else it took".

I love how you think Miami would've had the ability to strong arm St Louis into giving us the #2 spot. "Hey St Louie, we're giving you 2 extra firsts and you're gonna like it! Pleasure doing business, chumps." Rams got what they wanted from Washington w/o having to trade back as far, not to mention Washington's 6th spot was more favorable for trading back and picking up more picks considering the draft was regarded as having 6 elite prospects [thank goodness everyone underestimated Tannehill!!].... and that's exactly what the Rams did. They took advantage of the 6 spot and traded back with Dallas for an extra 2nd rounder. Even if we matched Washington's crazy, lucrative offer there's no way the Rams agree to it. It would've taken 4 total first rounders for RG3, which is insane when a player of Tannehill's caliber is on the board. Your offense is better off having Tannehill with 2 first round receivers and a 1st round TE than RG3 alone.

 

To learn day to day ops, draft the talent that did'nt require the franchise to take monetary risks, and to take over when that POS decided he'd quit.

 

not that i necessarily disagree, but what first round WRs and TE are you talking about?

 

I guess Brian Gaine must be guilty by association too, Deej, since he was our Asst Director of Player Personnel and was mostly in charge of directing the pro scouting efforts from '08-'10, but we don't ever see posters scapegoating him the way they do Ireland despite Gaine probably being as or more involved in college scouting while Parcells was here. A lot of posters should be working on revamping their slanted argument against Ireland.

(BTW, this is the same Brian Gaine whom the NFL seems to think highly of. I believe Jeff Fisher endorsed the Rams to interview him for their GM job)

 

It's hard to say since it'd be over the next 3 years as there's a lot of yet-to-emerge talent out there.

To play along with the principle of the saved 1st round picks having to go to WR/TE, I'd first be looking for an excuse to draft DaRick Rogers, unparalleled in talent this year and nearly indiscernible from Julio Jones now that Julio chopped his hair [provided Rogers checks out in his interview]. In this exercise I'd take him 1st regardless but I'd want a free pick from it so I'd trade back 8-10 spots even if it only netted a late 2nd/early 3rd. I don't mind whoring myself out that way if that extra pick becomes Hback, Jordan Reed.

Next year I'm obviously looking at either the big TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins or my boy Sammy Watkins [if they declare early]. Sammy could fall to the late teens/twenties b/c of a down year this year and potentially one next year if Boyd leaves early, although there's nothing wrong with Sammy. If either returns for their senior year, then that's the one I'm looking at with our third 1st rounder.

So let's just say: Da'Rick Rogers & Jordan Reed, Sammy Watkins, and TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins. RG3 could lick Tannehill's shoes with that foursome.

 

Exactly what makes you think Ireland would spend those next three draft picks on two WR's and a TE? The Dolphins have big needs in the secondary, and they need to add another pass rusher to the defense. They will also need to add LB help over the next few years as their present LB's age.

Once Bush leaves after this season, the Dolphins will have to look for a quality RB to be their primary RB in the coming years. Miller will be okay as a change of pace back, but I don't see him being a back who can be an every down back. I also don't think Thomas is the long term answer at that position.

The Dolphins also need to upgrade their offensive line. The right side of the line is very average and I don't see Long and Incognito still being members of the Dolphins when the 2015 draft comes around. Long may still be a Miami Dolphin next year if the team puts the franchise tag on him, but unless his play improves drastically next year, I don't see him being a Dolphin in 2014.

So with all these needs now and in the coming years, I just don't see the Dolphins drafting WR's and a TE in the first round of the next three drafts. In fact if Ireland is still the teams GM when the 2013 draft arrives. I doubt if he would draft a WR or TE in the first round. More likely he will draft another offensive lineman or another defensive end.

As far as the Rams taking an offer from the Dolphins for their first round draft pick is concerned. Since it doesn't appear the Dolphins tried to make an offer, we will never know if the Rams would have taken it.
You think the Washington offer was crazy. I think it was a brilliant trade and it will make the Redskins a playoff team for years to come.

 

I am not sure how my statement is ignorant, when it was Ross who stated after last season that he wasn't happy with the QB position. He also stated at the time he expected the Dolphins to upgrade the position in the off season. They didn't get Manning, therefore Ireland did as he was told and he drafted a QB in the first round.

Many people on this forum appear to think that Ireland only did as he was told while Parcells was running the team. If Ireland only did what he was told to do when Parcells was with the team. Why wouldn't he do exactly was he was told to do by the man who signs his paycheck?

I'm not saying Tannehill wasn't a good pick. I merely believe that Ireland was forced to select a QB because he was told by the owner that he expected Ireland to select a QB with his first round pick.


As far as the comparison of Tannehill to RG3. There is a reason the Redskins traded so much for RG3 and had no interest in staying in the 6th position in the first round and selecting Tannehill instead. Because they felt the same way I do. They knew RG3 was a QB who could become one of the best QB's in the league over the next decade. They obviously didn't feel that way about Tannehill, because they could have just stayed at 6 and picked Tannehill, instead of trading all the picks for RG3.

So you don't have to accept my views on the matter. I believe the Redskins staff knows a lot more about the players than you or me, and they wanted RG3 and obviously not Tannehill in the first round of the 2012 draft.

 

I have no problem with your opinion JW, you've been correct on some issues before, and I have no problem judging Ireland at the end of the season with as much scrutiny as you..I just don't get why our opinion is so different on when Ireland took over control...Bill Parcells was in charge...Bill Parcells..lol..just became president of ops..he brought his pup over to watch him operate because he knew he was gonna split sooner than later, and Ireland was his way out smoothly, I mean he could scapegoat him if the team failed, or he could gloat for putting the guy in charge for the fanbase..

Basically why I really want to try and be as accurate as possible when it comes to this is because all I really care about in a GM is his abiliy to scout..We need to see what this and last years class is all about..